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Post by laughter on Jun 21, 2023 19:27:27 GMT -5
There's momentum to our conditioning. If you find yourself getting angry with your wife or your daughter it doesn't mean that you haven't realized the existential truth about personhood, it just means that there is conditioning playing itself out. The realization is timeless, in an instant, and is of what can be pointed to as unconditioned. These human reactions are conditioning, and are time-bound. Totally agree, but it's also so that realization does impact that conditioning. Specifically to what degree though and specifically how, obviously cannot be said. And everyone is different, no two scripts are identical. There's some pithy aphorism about comparing "insides" to "outsides" that escapes me at the moment. The best we can ever hope to offer ourselves and others is self-honesty.
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Post by laughter on Jun 21, 2023 19:31:08 GMT -5
Yes. But this "inner nature": ultimately there is no "inner", there is no "outer". You know that already. The question for you is, "what creates"? It's not the illusory false personal self, but then again, it's also undeniable that this "inner state" is not insignificant, once we start considering issues like anger. And then the next one is; Are you Absolutely certain that "creation" is what's actually happening? (That one goes hand in hand with taking a sincere, deep dive into the experience of 'time'). If we're talking Truth, is it actually so that experience is "being created"? A clear realization that "This is it," calls that idea into question...reveals the misconception that's in play there.
In the most uncompromising expression, there is no creation, only THIS. Here. Now. The unchanging absolute perfection of the ineffable. Creation presupposes a flow of time, and so is a misconception from word one. T The flip side is that change, is undeniable, and that is all time really is, absent any and all complication: change. Eternity is ever on the tip of ones tongue. Don't you know?
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Post by laughter on Jun 21, 2023 19:31:57 GMT -5
It's not. He's describing a situation where an experience of bliss does not necessarily mean that a deep, dark venture into the depths of despair is coming directly after, as seems to be the point you are making. (If the wave of feeling goes very high on the emotional scale, it's inevitable that as it ebbs, it's gonna go real low...is that your position? ) Got up to the lake with Sue today.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:29:56 GMT -5
It's not. He's describing a situation where an experience of bliss does not necessarily mean that a deep, dark venture into the depths of despair is coming directly after, as seems to be the point you are making. ( ) >>If the wave of feeling goes very high on the emotional scale, it's inevitable that as it ebbs, it's gonna go real low...is that your position?<<
yes
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:30:52 GMT -5
Yes, false is not creating the reality because that doesn't exist. Our being creates the reality. But it won't create properly when it believes something that's not true, for an example when it believes that permanent happiness can be attained. But isn't that what you are asserting when you suggest that SR means never experiencing irritation/frustration ever again? I said what follows after blame can not accepted because blame can not accepted. Irritation need not to follow the blame, when you stub you toe, you may get irritated.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:32:27 GMT -5
Forests fire enigma faces collapse what he has been saying ? On gab last year (or the year before), Enigma said his area was on fire, and he had to evacuate his house for a while. I recall empathizing with the sense of gratitude he expressed when he returned home. I am well aware of that and you have to understand that did not make him suffer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:34:35 GMT -5
You are talking about when one believes himself to be a doer, yes? No. I am saying that even in the seeing through of the doer, the experience of a me character that does/accomplishes stuff, still to some degree remains.
Same with the experience of personal agency...it continues on as a facet of the dream/story, even after clearly seeing that there is no actual, fundamental responsibility/blame agency re: the appearing character.
For example; While I am clear that there is no separation....it's all one seamless unfolding and ultimately, no appearing character is fundamentally volitional, thus, he has no fundamental agency, if someone rams into my car, I'm still gonna take his insurance and file it as his 'fault' so as to pay for my car repair.
There are experiential facets that remain and continue to arise even though the fundamental Truth has been realized.
Such situation wouldn't arise if your rollercoaster goes fine.
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Post by andrew on Jun 21, 2023 21:38:23 GMT -5
On gab last year (or the year before), Enigma said his area was on fire, and he had to evacuate his house for a while. I recall empathizing with the sense of gratitude he expressed when he returned home. I am well aware of that and you have to understand that did not make him suffer. I'm not saying it did, but based on what he conveyed, it sounded (understandably) as if there was some degree of stress in the situation. Suffering would have been like 'woe is me, this is terrible'.
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Post by andrew on Jun 21, 2023 21:39:22 GMT -5
On gab last year (or the year before), Enigma said his area was on fire, and he had to evacuate his house for a while. I recall empathizing with the sense of gratitude he expressed when he returned home. I think this was it.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_wildfiresThat's it, cheers. Crikey, 3 years ago, my time judgment was pretty askew!
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Post by andrew on Jun 21, 2023 21:46:37 GMT -5
No. I am saying that even in the seeing through of the doer, the experience of a me character that does/accomplishes stuff, still to some degree remains.
Same with the experience of personal agency...it continues on as a facet of the dream/story, even after clearly seeing that there is no actual, fundamental responsibility/blame agency re: the appearing character.
For example; While I am clear that there is no separation....it's all one seamless unfolding and ultimately, no appearing character is fundamentally volitional, thus, he has no fundamental agency, if someone rams into my car, I'm still gonna take his insurance and file it as his 'fault' so as to pay for my car repair.
There are experiential facets that remain and continue to arise even though the fundamental Truth has been realized.
Such situation wouldn't arise if your rollercoaster goes fine. so if someone has to evacuate because of local forest fire, then is their rollercoaster fine? What about if your employer demands that you have a vaccine that you don't really want, so that you keep your job (which was your situation)...is your rollercoaster fine then? How do you judge when a rollercoaster is fine, and when it isnt?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:57:16 GMT -5
Liking and disliking is not about rollercoaster. It's the movement of feeling in your life. The story which brings that emotion could be anything. If you force yourself to experience to much happiness, then downside of the rollercoaster can't be avoided, the depth can't be avoided Look closely. Basic Likes/dislikes (approval/disapproval) go hand in hand with basic up/down movement of feelings. Dramatic movements downward require the presence of deep judgements of an SVP. Otherwise, feelings all remain fundamentally okay....non-problematic...a moment of disappointment...aw shucks.... just arises and ebbs on through.
The basic emotion is part and part of the story in the sense that likes/dislikes are part and parcel of the story. You're never going to completely do away with personal judgment so long as a me character continues to arise in experience.
Your entire life has been a roller-coaster ride. When you are unaware that you are on a roller-coaster, you will want to feel more happiness and will push the happiness side of the roller-coaster (maybe by hearing songs) while rejecting the negative side. When you realize you're on the roller-coaster, you don't try to get away from either side; instead, you begin to walk off the battlefield and your sides of the roller-coaster gently drop down. But it would not go away. It would move up (with one story that you could appreciate), then down with another story. It makes no difference whether you like or dislike something. I can tell by the way you write that you haven't realized yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 21:58:23 GMT -5
yes. But I dislike the word like dislike So, what would you "prefer" to use instead?
I prefer to say that the tale makes you happy and the narrative makes you sad.
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Post by inavalan on Jun 21, 2023 22:02:29 GMT -5
It is interesting to see people starting with a hypothesis, then trying to massage the reality they observe to fit that hypothesis. Funny things get invented. Hilarious justifications are stated seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:26:33 GMT -5
You are free to reject me here if you wish. Never YOU sweet Gopal, who has always held a special place in my heart, WOW, what a lovely place I have gotten. Don't know how to thank you!
Kindly refrain from recalling that memory again as it causes disaster. That's the only thing makes my rollercoaster goes deep down
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:28:05 GMT -5
That faux anger Enigma describe is not an anger at all. Anger is all about how you feel towards the given situation it's not about how you change your outward appearaance. Yeah, I agree...I think. But regardless of the actual feeling in play, E obviously DID "want" that person to go away.....his personal judgment was of not wanting that person to keep being a thorn in his life/relationship. There was some kind of feeling of negative response towards that person....all of course, perfectly okay and not at all out of line with being awake/SR. That's really great figgles, finding an agreement with you is one of the rarest thing that happens here.
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