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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 15:34:38 GMT -5
Actually its difficult to understand what he believes. He starts the argument but if you get into the argument, he would quickly say he is not interested in any kind of argument. All I know about him is, he always come to protect Reefs and zendancer. That's the only thing I know about him clearly. This is called "ganging up". It can happen at the street level as in street gangs where two or more guys confront you. At the international level, NATO is a form of a gang. I hate gangs. Gangs are formed by bullies. And bullies are cowards with a need to push evil agendas nobody wants in order to dominate and control the public space. Most of us are not aware that we are programmed by evil. We think we are spiritual. This is a classic example of "imagination playing tricks" as Laffy puts it. This is why I keep bringing up the question of morality. The folks in this forum never talk about morality. They just focus on TPTPAU. Yakuza gangs have their own TPTPAU.
I can be programmed by evil also and not know it, as you said. This is why I practice the art of "minding my body". It stops me from committing acts of evil on others. No matter how good that act seems to be such as giving to the poor, defend democracy, save the planet, fighting for freedom. Every time my SVP gets possessed by such "good guy impulse", I snap it to attention the way I would do to my dog: "Down boy! Mind your own goddam business."
So, you imagine that you've been ganged up and bullied even though noone has prevented you from calling us a herd of wildebeasts (one of several such colorful characterizations). And don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should. Please. Carry on.  |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 27, 2022 16:03:17 GMT -5
Nah, it's not that I " don't like" predetermination, it's just that "everything moves as one" doesn't relate to predetermination with the logic you think it does. .. last year I had a vision of seeing a white car in front of a garage . I intuitively thought that I am going to move and have a new car . Two weeks ago my next-door neighbour had a fire in his garage that swept across to mine and blew up my car and destroyed my garage . I looked for a new car and in a matter of minutes, I brought the car that was in my vision & obviously I am going to have a new garage also .. When I have these sorts of visions that I have had for many years, there doesn't seem to be anything that can stop these things from happening after I have had a vision of such things . It really does make you think that if you can see these things a year from the event, then it's in a way just playing out as it should . You can turn it around, and wonder if you didn't (carelessly) materialize your vision, one of the infinite number of probabilities. Somehow you glimpsed something or made a connection, focused on it but not carefully enough, and your subconscious materialized it. You hadn't given any restrictions, and also put in some emotion which expedited it. It is what happens all the time in our dreams. |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 27, 2022 16:10:16 GMT -5
I know belief creates reality. The question is, have you ever used affirmation or visualization to create anything? Have you attained any success? Beliefs don't create reality. Beliefs color and accent the dream. , your own subconscious creates the reality that you perceive through your senses. Beliefs filter your perceptions from your inner-senses: you subconsciously perceive in agreement with your beliefs. Your subconscious creates to some degree your expectations, and your emotions are booster. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 16:42:30 GMT -5
And thank you too, andrew. You have no idea of the benefit I derive in engaging you guys in discussion. I have been to many forums on spirituality but none has SVPs that can take my punches and kicks the way you folks are able to. The harder I can strike, the deeper I get into this dark void of evil possessing mankind. It's a dirty job no one else wants to do. As Gopal said, Hitler did not create the war, it's the war that created Hitler. I guess it's this hell hole of a world that has created sree.
I need to perfect my martial art in destroying the SVP. I look forward to the next one that faces me in combat.
Bruce lee popped into our spiritual circle Thursday .. It's his birthday today .  Would you rank Bruce Lee above Eckhart Tolle as a spiritual teacher? Tolle is 3-star rated by this forum. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 16:49:36 GMT -5
Point out one trick my imagination played on me. You imagined that I either was, or at least had the potential to get "mad or upset" because I was not understood.  I did imagine many things. As a matter of fact, I am a movement of thought, an imagination machine, so to speak. Getting tricked by my imagining is something else. I have a pretty good idea of what you are capable of, Laffy. I can tag you easy. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 17:05:51 GMT -5
This is called "ganging up". It can happen at the street level as in street gangs where two or more guys confront you. At the international level, NATO is a form of a gang. I hate gangs. Gangs are formed by bullies. And bullies are cowards with a need to push evil agendas nobody wants in order to dominate and control the public space. Most of us are not aware that we are programmed by evil. We think we are spiritual. This is a classic example of "imagination playing tricks" as Laffy puts it. This is why I keep bringing up the question of morality. The folks in this forum never talk about morality. They just focus on TPTPAU. Yakuza gangs have their own TPTPAU.
I can be programmed by evil also and not know it, as you said. This is why I practice the art of "minding my body". It stops me from committing acts of evil on others. No matter how good that act seems to be such as giving to the poor, defend democracy, save the planet, fighting for freedom. Every time my SVP gets possessed by such "good guy impulse", I snap it to attention the way I would do to my dog: "Down boy! Mind your own goddam business."
So, you imagine that you've been ganged up and bullied even though noone has prevented you from calling us a herd of wildebeasts (one of several such colorful characterizations). And don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should. Please. Carry on. Ganging up on me is one thing, bullying me is something else.
I have watched you guys ganging up on Gopal despite his spiritual heft in non-dualism (Advaita). It's like watching three white monks in saffron robes taking on the Buddha. It's as embarrassing as watching the US Navy taking on China in the Taiwan Straits. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 17:08:08 GMT -5
I doubt it. Or, we're not referring to the same "silence". I can tell by the things you talk about. For example, if you go into this silent awareness, I doubt you'd come out talking this way about "evil" and how the SVP needs to be "restrained". These ideas are not ultimately true, and are only created by your own mind. I don't see how someone could go into silent awareness and remain this attached to mind-made fictions and false selves. I could be wrong; just telling you how I see it... If you could be wrong, there is every possibility that I could be wrong also. This is the wonderful thing about having more than one SVP, each with an independent point of view.
I don't believe that the SVP is a false self. Do you think America is a false national self? What about the corporate self of Citibank or any real to life celebrity selves such as Donald Trump and Elon Musk? True, they are all mind-made fictions, but are they false? You are correct in the sense that all those examples, like the SVP, are psychological constructs but they are not false. They exist. Spiritual inquiry is an examination of the true nature of things. Richard Gere and Jim Carrey know the SVP is a mind-made fiction; and yet, they go on living their lives as Richard Gere and Jim Carrey. Is their self-realization of any significant value even if they tell you that their SVPs are false selves? I bet you that they would not regard their shoes as false shoes or that their partners in life are false girlfriends or false wives.
Seeing the truth in the nature of the SVP is easy. What about a piece of rock or your body? Can your silent awareness detach you from these mind-made fictions? My silent awareness can do it. But it doesn't mean that the body won't die if I hang it by the neck, or it won't get hurt if it is hit by a piece of rock.
So, what is the point to silent awareness and the clarity it gives into the nature of things? It all depends on what is the driver of your spiritual inquiry. Mine is an aversion to suffering caused by the SVP. Why are you drawn to spiritual inquiry?
Not false in a relative, conceptual sense. Clearly, I am not you, and you are not me. The existential truth is non-conceptual. However, there are conceptual hints about it. For instance, you could contemplate the question of how separate you are from the Earth, and, in turn, how separate the Earth is from the Sun, etc ... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 17:27:17 GMT -5
I doubt it. Or, we're not referring to the same "silence". I can tell by the things you talk about. For example, if you go into this silent awareness, I doubt you'd come out talking this way about "evil" and how the SVP needs to be "restrained". These ideas are not ultimately true, and are only created by your own mind. I don't see how someone could go into silent awareness and remain this attached to mind-made fictions and false selves. I could be wrong; just telling you how I see it... If you could be wrong, there is every possibility that I could be wrong also. This is the wonderful thing about having more than one SVP, each with an independent point of view.
I don't believe that the SVP is a false self. Do you think America is a false national self? What about the corporate self of Citibank or any real to life celebrity selves such as Donald Trump and Elon Musk? True, they are all mind-made fictions, but are they false? You are correct in the sense that all those examples, like the SVP, are psychological constructs but they are not false. They exist.
Spiritual inquiry is an examination of the true nature of things. Richard Gere and Jim Carrey know the SVP is a mind-made fiction; and yet, they go on living their lives as Richard Gere and Jim Carrey. Is their self-realization of any significant value even if they tell you that their SVPs are false selves? I bet you that they would not regard their shoes as false shoes or that their partners in life are false girlfriends or false wives.
Seeing the truth in the nature of the SVP is easy. What about a piece of rock or your body? Can your silent awareness detach you from these mind-made fictions? My silent awareness can do it. But it doesn't mean that the body won't die if I hang it by the neck, or it won't get hurt if it is hit by a piece of rock.
So, what is the point to silent awareness and the clarity it gives into the nature of things? It all depends on what is the driver of your spiritual inquiry. Mine is an aversion to suffering caused by the SVP. Why are you drawn to spiritual inquiry? I think you're dismissing something as "been there, done that", but you wouldn't be asking any of these questions above if you truly had been there. Seeing into your true nature is deeper than what you're talking about. But I'm a fool to keep harping on this. You and I are not working on the same things in life at the moment, so we can't have a great conversation here. That's okay. Thankfully we haven't devolved into meanness either. Godspeed, fellow traveler. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 17:59:27 GMT -5
If you could be wrong, there is every possibility that I could be wrong also. This is the wonderful thing about having more than one SVP, each with an independent point of view.
I don't believe that the SVP is a false self. Do you think America is a false national self? What about the corporate self of Citibank or any real to life celebrity selves such as Donald Trump and Elon Musk? True, they are all mind-made fictions, but are they false? You are correct in the sense that all those examples, like the SVP, are psychological constructs but they are not false. They exist. Spiritual inquiry is an examination of the true nature of things. Richard Gere and Jim Carrey know the SVP is a mind-made fiction; and yet, they go on living their lives as Richard Gere and Jim Carrey. Is their self-realization of any significant value even if they tell you that their SVPs are false selves? I bet you that they would not regard their shoes as false shoes or that their partners in life are false girlfriends or false wives.
Seeing the truth in the nature of the SVP is easy. What about a piece of rock or your body? Can your silent awareness detach you from these mind-made fictions? My silent awareness can do it. But it doesn't mean that the body won't die if I hang it by the neck, or it won't get hurt if it is hit by a piece of rock.
So, what is the point to silent awareness and the clarity it gives into the nature of things? It all depends on what is the driver of your spiritual inquiry. Mine is an aversion to suffering caused by the SVP. Why are you drawn to spiritual inquiry?
Clearly, I am not you, and you are not me. The existential truth is non-conceptual. However, there are conceptual hints about it. For instance, you could contemplate the question of separate how you are from the Earth, and, in turn, how separate the Earth is from the Sun, etc ... Everything is in the conceptual sense. Some things (i.e. rock, parts of body, sun, moon, color of things, etc.) are tangible to the senses while other things (i.e. SVP, TRUTH, NOTHING, AMERICA, Citibank, etc.) are pure imaginations.
I am you, and you are me. Two SVPs. Just like two leaves on a tree, two sand grains in the desert, two snow flakes in a blizzard. There is no distinction of one thing from another in nature.
Distinction between SVPs arises from demonic possession. Exorcism of the demon is practiced in new-age spirituality to attain the impersonal no-self state.
The Earth, as a blue planet, you see is a conceptual thing. It has nothing to do with the ground that you can feel that you are standing on. The two experiences are in separate contexts and cannot felt at the same time.
I could be talking rubbish, Laffy. Prove me wrong, show how my imagination is playing tricks on me.
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:00:28 GMT -5
Nah, it's not that I " don't like" predetermination, it's just that "everything moves as one" doesn't relate to predetermination with the logic you think it does. .. last year I had a vision of seeing a white car in front of a garage . I intuitively thought that I am going to move and have a new car . Two weeks ago my next-door neighbour had a fire in his garage that swept across to mine and blew up my car and destroyed my garage . I looked for a new car and in a matter of minutes, I brought the car that was in my vision & obviously I am going to have a new garage also .. When I have these sorts of visions that I have had for many years, there doesn't seem to be anything that can stop these things from happening after I have had a vision of such things . It really does make you think that if you can see these things a year from the event, then it's in a way just playing out as it should . First of all .. whoa! .. sorry to hear of that sort of rather dramatic disruption to your life dude.  I've had similar experiences that have opened my mind beyond the conventional, which is why I'm sincerely left with no question as to your claim, and that completely counter to all my old conditioning btw (and apropo of almost nothing). Now then, the question becomes, how do we interpret those? "Everything moves as one" has the potential to be a pointer to the existential truth, but can we conclude from this, or even from these unusual experiences, that all of time already exists and is predetermined? Well, first of all, before we write anything illogical, lets consider how far the intellect can take us. Ramana once addressed this question with the answer along the lines of: "free will and destiny are both ever evident". In conventional, intellectual terms, we can see that we are all destined to die, but then, on the other hand, we don't know how many people we'll have sex with or how much money we'll make between now and then. We can see that the Sun is destined to blow up into a red giant and swallow up the Earth, but we don't know how many people will be alive on the Earth on that distant day or what form humanity will have taken assuming it survives until then and whether or not any of them will have been able to save themselves by escaping out into space. So, in the conventional, intellectual sense we see that the future is a blend of the known, and the unknown. It's pure speculation to discount the unknown. Rather, the closer the future becomes to being the present, the less unknowns there are, the further away it is, the more there are. So in terms of your vision of the white car, I'd speculate that perhaps it flashed before you after some event occurred that made the eventuality either highly probable if not a foregone conclusion. In existential terms, reality is transcendent of form, transcendent of events and objects and all of duality. Reality, is neither predetermined nor random, the "past" and the "future" are both creations of mind, and the question of free-will is based on the misconception of the existential reality of the separate volitional person. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 18:04:51 GMT -5
If you could be wrong, there is every possibility that I could be wrong also. This is the wonderful thing about having more than one SVP, each with an independent point of view.
I don't believe that the SVP is a false self. Do you think America is a false national self? What about the corporate self of Citibank or any real to life celebrity selves such as Donald Trump and Elon Musk? True, they are all mind-made fictions, but are they false? You are correct in the sense that all those examples, like the SVP, are psychological constructs but they are not false. They exist.
Spiritual inquiry is an examination of the true nature of things. Richard Gere and Jim Carrey know the SVP is a mind-made fiction; and yet, they go on living their lives as Richard Gere and Jim Carrey. Is their self-realization of any significant value even if they tell you that their SVPs are false selves? I bet you that they would not regard their shoes as false shoes or that their partners in life are false girlfriends or false wives.
Seeing the truth in the nature of the SVP is easy. What about a piece of rock or your body? Can your silent awareness detach you from these mind-made fictions? My silent awareness can do it. But it doesn't mean that the body won't die if I hang it by the neck, or it won't get hurt if it is hit by a piece of rock.
So, what is the point to silent awareness and the clarity it gives into the nature of things? It all depends on what is the driver of your spiritual inquiry. Mine is an aversion to suffering caused by the SVP. Why are you drawn to spiritual inquiry? I think you're dismissing something as "been there, done that", but you wouldn't be asking any of these questions above if you truly had been there. Seeing into your true nature is deeper than what you're talking about. But I'm a fool to keep harping on this. You and I are not working on the same things in life at the moment, so we can't have a great conversation here. That's okay. Thankfully we haven't devolved into meanness either. Godspeed, fellow traveler. We must never devolve into meanness, not over a conversation that can take place over beers in a bar. Take care, my friend. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:46:12 GMT -5
Beliefs don't create reality. Beliefs color and accent the dream. , your own subconscious creates the reality that you perceive through your senses. Beliefs filter your perceptions from your inner-senses: you subconsciously perceive in agreement with your beliefs. Your subconscious creates to some degree your expectations, and your emotions are booster. Sure. But reality is transcendent of what you're referring to as perception. To discover the nature of reality, discover the nature of "what perceives". |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:51:51 GMT -5
You imagined that I either was, or at least had the potential to get "mad or upset" because I was not understood. I did imagine many things. As a matter of fact, I am a movement of thought, an imagination machine, so to speak. Getting tricked by my imagining is something else. I have a pretty good idea of what you are capable of, Laffy. I can tag you easy. imagination run amok! |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:52:46 GMT -5
So, you imagine that you've been ganged up and bullied even though noone has prevented you from calling us a herd of wildebeasts (one of several such colorful characterizations). And don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should. Please. Carry on. Ganging up on me is one thing, bullying me is something else. I have watched you guys ganging up on Gopal despite his spiritual heft in non-dualism (Advaita). It's like watching three white monks in saffron robes taking on the Buddha. It's as embarrassing as watching the US Navy taking on China in the Taiwan Straits. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 19:14:01 GMT -5
Not false in a relative, conceptual sense. Clearly, I am not you, and you are not me. The existential truth is non-conceptual. However, there are conceptual hints about it. For instance, you could contemplate the question of separate how you are from the Earth, and, in turn, how separate the Earth is from the Sun, etc ... Everything is in the conceptual sense. Some things (i.e. rock, parts of body, sun, moon, color of things, etc.) are tangible to the senses while other things (i.e. SVP, TRUTH, NOTHING, AMERICA, Citibank, etc.) are pure imaginations.
I am you, and you are me. Two SVPs. Just like two leaves on a tree, two sand grains in the desert, two snow flakes in a blizzard. There is no distinction of one thing from another in nature.
Distinction between SVPs arises from demonic possession. Exorcism of the demon is practiced in new-age spirituality to attain the impersonal no-self state. The Earth, as a blue planet, you see is a conceptual thing. It has nothing to do with the ground that you can feel that you are standing on. The two experiences are in separate contexts and cannot felt at the same time.
I could be talking rubbish, Laffy. Prove me wrong, show how my imagination is playing tricks on me.
Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you.  The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.
Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping.
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The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that.