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Post by tenka on Jul 23, 2022 9:31:34 GMT -5
I didn't dismiss your answer, I told you why you need a comparison . You don't have one . There is a difference . I keep saying to you that I have been speaking about references regarding the wife, the cat, the runner, etc . It seems like you don't want to listen to that for some reason . It's no good quoting one line from a post when the last dozen posts have had the same theme in regards to what else could the wife be . so you are saying that your reference for knowing that the gorilla is a real conscious gorilla is that you've seen a gorilla suit as a comparison? So let me ask you. What if you had never seen a gorilla suit? what reference would you have for the real conscious gorilla other than what appears to you? The example of giving a gorilla suit is a comparison for an appearance of a gorilla that isn't a gorilla . This is straightforward as it gets . It's just an example to try for the life of me explain that you need an example of what a child bearing wife could possibly be if not a real perceiver . Of course we could ask her like you said if she is or not and this silly circus act could stop in a heartbeat . The real gorilla would be the reference . There isn't another reference . If what appears is real, then there is only that . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 9:34:55 GMT -5
so you are saying that your reference for knowing that the gorilla is a real conscious gorilla is that you've seen a gorilla suit as a comparison? So let me ask you. What if you had never seen a gorilla suit? what reference would you have for the real conscious gorilla other than what appears to you? The example of giving a gorilla suit is a comparison for an appearance of a gorilla that isn't a gorilla . This is straightforward as it gets . It's just an example to try for the life of me explain that you need an example of what a child bearing wife could possibly be in not a real perceiver . Of course we could ask her like you said if she is or not ant this silly circus act could stop in a heartbeat . The real gorilla would be the reference . There isn't another reference . If what appears is real, then there is only that . I'm not saying that others aren't perceivers. Why do you keep saying that? You haven't answered my question either. Do you believe there are other perceivers or do you know they are perceivers because you asked me if I believe if they're perceivers so I'm assuming that it's a belief for you. If it's a belief for you what is it based on in the absence of gorilla suits or having seen a tailor's dummy that looks like a human being that isn't a human being. |
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Post by tenka on Jul 23, 2022 9:41:50 GMT -5
The example of giving a gorilla suit is a comparison for an appearance of a gorilla that isn't a gorilla . This is straightforward as it gets . It's just an example to try for the life of me explain that you need an example of what a child bearing wife could possibly be in not a real perceiver . Of course we could ask her like you said if she is or not ant this silly circus act could stop in a heartbeat . The real gorilla would be the reference . There isn't another reference . If what appears is real, then there is only that . . Why do you keep saying that? You haven't answered my question either. Do you believe there are other perceivers or do you know they are perceivers because you asked me if I believe if they're perceivers so I'm assuming that it's a belief for you. If it's a belief for you what what is it based on in the absence of gorilla suits or having seen a tailor's dummy that looks like a human being that isn't a human being. I know that, but I am questioning what else could the wife be if not a real perceiver . That's the whole reason for taking you down this route . Something that's so simple turned out to be ridiculously difficult . When peeps say I don't know if other's are real then there has to be a comparison had for what that could potentially be instead of . That's why I said the foundation didn't match the not knowing because there was no comparison . Gopal and his dream only analogy doesn't work cos he doesn't say what the waking world is as a comparison . There is no sound footing to anything said . I know and I believe that other's are perceivers unless the peep is dressed up as a gorilla and then the rope is seen for a snake .That doesn't negate the real foundation of the world and of Self . I have said before to you recently that after my realisation, my thoughts were the opposite to yours in relation to other's being real or not . Perhaps you forgot . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 9:46:13 GMT -5
I'm not saying that others aren't perceivers. Why do you keep saying that? You haven't answered my question either. Do you believe there are other perceivers or do you know they are perceivers because you asked me if I believe if they're perceivers so I'm assuming that it's a belief for you. If it's a belief for you what what is it based on in the absence of gorilla suits or having seen a tailor's dummy that looks like a human being that isn't a human being. I know that, but I am questioning what else could the wife be if not a real perceiver . That's the whole reason for taking you down this route . Something that's so simple turned out to be ridiculously difficult . When peeps say I don't know if other's are real then there has to be a comparison had for what that could potentially be instead of . That's why I said the foundation didn't match the not knowing because there was no comparison . Gopal and his dream only analogy doesn't work cos he doesn't say what the waking world is as a comparison . There is no sound footing to anything said . I know and I believe that other's are perceivers unless the peep is dressed up as a gorilla and then the rope is seen for a snake .That doesn't negate the real foundation of the world and of Self . I have said before to you recently that after my realisation, my thoughts were the opposite to yours in relation to other's being real or not . Perhaps you forgot . so if a real perceiver dresses up as a gorilla they're not a real perceiver anymore? You've never been to a fancy dress party? When you popped out of your mother's womb there was an immediate affinity for this person who was your mother. Before accepting her as a real perceiver did you need to find a mannequin that looked like her as a comparison to know that she was real? |
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Post by sree on Jul 23, 2022 11:00:03 GMT -5
They may be aware and conscious, but they have not realized consciousness to be anything other than an ability to be aware of people, places and things around them. A neuroscientist like Jill Bolte Taylor would shove a real human brain in your face and tell you where your consciousness comes from.
Self-realized folks have become consciousness itself. They can converse with you as consciousness in the first person or from the depth of emptiness in the 'no time' domain of nothingness.
I am not one of the self-realized folks. I do research on self-realization the way a scientist would study abnormalities in insects and earthworms.
You have to start somewhere. Most people can easily understand that they are aware of things, of objects. I'm aware of this, I'm aware of that. What's the point of giving Tenka an answer about realizing that I am consciousness when he obviously doesn't believe it. It's a non-starter in the way he asks the question. The first and most obvious obstacle is telling him what consciousness is. I don't know. I don't know what the color blue is but I know what it is. This is a question coming from someone who a long time ago spoke about meditation, quietening the wild horses of the mind. Well it obviously didn't work if he's asking this question now. In giving an answer, I am sharing my observation. I am not shoving my observation down tenka's throat. If you and I were in a Bangkok street market eating pad thai and you asked me "What is it to you?" Being an American eating pad thai for the first time, I would give you an answer even if your Thai wife, seated at our table, laughed at me with contempt Westerners are absolute idiots when they wander into the Eastern world. One time in an Indian restaurant in London after flying in from Delhi, I ordered a chicken masala tikka and a naan to eat with. A fat Brit and his wife were at the next table with briyani rice, chapatis, dosa, and a meat curry. They ate all that food sequentially - one dish after another.
I gave tenka my take on the consciousness. It is not my truth. If my perception is screwed up, it has dire consequences and I would appreciate his pointer in the right direction. |
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Post by sree on Jul 23, 2022 11:24:03 GMT -5
Hey tenka, I have realized consciousness to be me as sree and tenka and all the Self realized folks here. Hey sree - Nice to meet you  What does that mean eggsactly? What is me? What is sree? are you alluding to dream characters or something more substantial? "me" is a name I call myself. sree is a handle for me. You can use it to refer/point to me the way you use a handle to pickup the teapot.
Dream characters are people in a dream. They are like people we see on a TV screen.
Consciousness is a state of awareness. Here I am looking at my garden. In this state of awareness, you are in my world as a member in this forum conversing with me using words of the English language. You are also a state of awareness. Consciousness has many states of awareness. Some states are pretty whacked out.
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Post by tenka on Jul 23, 2022 13:53:05 GMT -5
I know that, but I am questioning what else could the wife be if not a real perceiver . That's the whole reason for taking you down this route . Something that's so simple turned out to be ridiculously difficult . When peeps say I don't know if other's are real then there has to be a comparison had for what that could potentially be instead of . That's why I said the foundation didn't match the not knowing because there was no comparison . Gopal and his dream only analogy doesn't work cos he doesn't say what the waking world is as a comparison . There is no sound footing to anything said . I know and I believe that other's are perceivers unless the peep is dressed up as a gorilla and then the rope is seen for a snake .That doesn't negate the real foundation of the world and of Self . I have said before to you recently that after my realisation, my thoughts were the opposite to yours in relation to other's being real or not . Perhaps you forgot . so if a real perceiver dresses up as a gorilla they're not a real perceiver anymore? You've never been to a fancy dress party? When you popped out of your mother's womb there was an immediate affinity for this person who was your mother. Before accepting her as a real perceiver did you need to find a mannequin that looked like her as a comparison to know that she was real? I haven't a clue why you have concluded what you have based upon what I have said . |
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Post by tenka on Jul 23, 2022 14:04:42 GMT -5
Hey sree - Nice to meet you What does that mean eggsactly? What is me? What is sree? are you alluding to dream characters or something more substantial? "me" is a name I call myself. sree is a handle for me. You can use it to refer/point to me the way you use a handle to pickup the teapot.
Dream characters are people in a dream. They are like people we see on a TV screen.
Consciousness is a state of awareness. Here I am looking at my garden. In this state of awareness, you are in my world as a member in this forum conversing with me using words of the English language. You are also a state of awareness. Consciousness has many states of awareness. Some states are pretty whacked out.
What do you see yourself being? Just curious .. If in your eyes Consciousness is a state of awareness, then where does that leave you? |
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Post by sree on Jul 23, 2022 16:13:56 GMT -5
"me" is a name I call myself. sree is a handle for me. You can use it to refer/point to me the way you use a handle to pickup the teapot.
Dream characters are people in a dream. They are like people we see on a TV screen.
Consciousness is a state of awareness. Here I am looking at my garden. In this state of awareness, you are in my world as a member in this forum conversing with me using words of the English language. You are also a state of awareness. Consciousness has many states of awareness. Some states are pretty whacked out.
Just curious .. If in your eyes Consciousness is a state of awareness, then where does that leave you? I told you back in Post 272 on Jul 17. I realized consciousness is me. I see myself as being the human consciousness. It leaves me as a state of awareness. I am now on my front porch looking at the tree-lined street with the sun shining through their canopies "forming breathtaking carpets of nodding violet-blue flowers resplendent in the dappled light". The preceding description in bold was lifted from the internet to create in my writing that Krishnamurti effect that wooed the weirdos transforming them to whackos. I am immune to that kind of literature.
I know where you are going with your questions. It's the kind my dog would ask when he was sniffing out wild fowl hidden in the marshes. I would wait till those self-realized geese break cover before I let loose with both barrels of my 12-gauge Benelli.
Have you bagged any yet? Don't waste time using your duck calls on me. I am no duck. I am a fellow hunter.
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Post by tenka on Jul 24, 2022 5:42:05 GMT -5
What do you see yourself being? Just curious .. If in your eyes Consciousness is a state of awareness, then where does that leave you? I told you back in Post 272 on Jul 17. I realized consciousness is me. I see myself as being the human consciousness. It leaves me as a state of awareness. I am now on my front porch looking at the tree-lined street with the sun shining through their canopies "forming breathtaking carpets of nodding violet-blue flowers resplendent in the dappled light". The preceding description in bold was lifted from the internet to create in my writing that Krishnamurti effect that wooed the weirdos transforming them to whackos. I am immune to that kind of literature.
I know where you are going with your questions. It's the kind my dog would ask when he was sniffing out wild fowl hidden in the marshes. I would wait till those self-realized geese break cover before I let loose with both barrels of my 12-gauge Benelli.
Have you bagged any yet? Don't waste time using your duck calls on me. I am no duck. I am a fellow hunter.
You also said Consciousness is a state of awareness and also you see yourself as being human consciousness . I started the thread because peeps use the term as if it's realised . I don't understand how folks realise what they are and then say Ah! I am consciousness . That doesn't happen, so I am curious why peeps continue to act like Consciousness professors . You are welcome to explain yourself or not, so you can put the gun down . It's funny how simple questions bring the worse out of some peeps . |
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Post by tenka on Jul 24, 2022 6:10:30 GMT -5
I know that, but I am questioning what else could the wife be if not a real perceiver . That's the whole reason for taking you down this route . Something that's so simple turned out to be ridiculously difficult . When peeps say I don't know if other's are real then there has to be a comparison had for what that could potentially be instead of . That's why I said the foundation didn't match the not knowing because there was no comparison . Gopal and his dream only analogy doesn't work cos he doesn't say what the waking world is as a comparison . There is no sound footing to anything said . I know and I believe that other's are perceivers unless the peep is dressed up as a gorilla and then the rope is seen for a snake .That doesn't negate the real foundation of the world and of Self . I have said before to you recently that after my realisation, my thoughts were the opposite to yours in relation to other's being real or not . Perhaps you forgot . so if a real perceiver dresses up as a gorilla they're not a real perceiver anymore? You've never been to a fancy dress party? When you popped out of your mother's womb there was an immediate affinity for this person who was your mother. Before accepting her as a real perceiver did you need to find a mannequin that looked like her as a comparison to know that she was real?We are talking about an adult whom proclaims that they don't know if their wife of many years can perceive them or not . You change the context and put a new born babe into the same picture and ask if the babe has a comparison of a real perceiver in their locker . If you are aware enough to say that you don't know if the wife is perceiving you, then you are aware enough to have a comparison . This is the point . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2022 6:46:38 GMT -5
so if a real perceiver dresses up as a gorilla they're not a real perceiver anymore? You've never been to a fancy dress party? When you popped out of your mother's womb there was an immediate affinity for this person who was your mother. Before accepting her as a real perceiver did you need to find a mannequin that looked like her as a comparison to know that she was real?We are talking about an adult whom proclaims that they don't know if their wife of many years can perceive them or not . You change the context and put a new born babe into the same picture and ask if the babe has a comparison of a real perceiver in their locker . If you are aware enough to say that you don't know if the wife is perceiving you, then you are aware enough to have a comparison . This is the point . I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow but I can't be certain it will. I know that I am conscious but I do not know if anyone else is conscious in the way that I know that I am conscious but I'm compelled to interact with them as if they are. If you don't understand that then I can't explain it anymore. This is about what I actually know directly and I can only know myself. I cannot know the other except as an appearance. If you don't understand this then it is obviously beyond your understanding. I can't make it any clearer to you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2022 7:34:24 GMT -5
We are talking about an adult whom proclaims that they don't know if their wife of many years can perceive them or not . You change the context and put a new born babe into the same picture and ask if the babe has a comparison of a real perceiver in their locker . If you are aware enough to say that you don't know if the wife is perceiving you, then you are aware enough to have a comparison . This is the point . I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow but I can't be certain it will. I know that I am conscious but I do not know if anyone else is conscious in the way that I know that I am conscious but I'm compelled to interact with them as if they are. If you don't understand that then I can't explain it anymore. This is about what I actually know directly and I can only know myself. I cannot know the other except as an appearance. If you don't understand this then it is obviously beyond your understanding. I can't make it any clearer to you. Have you ever examined this compulsion? As in, from where and from what does it originate? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2022 7:39:27 GMT -5
I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow but I can't be certain it will. I know that I am conscious but I do not know if anyone else is conscious in the way that I know that I am conscious but I'm compelled to interact with them as if they are. If you don't understand that then I can't explain it anymore. This is about what I actually know directly and I can only know myself. I cannot know the other except as an appearance. If you don't understand this then it is obviously beyond your understanding. I can't make it any clearer to you. Have you ever examined this compulsion? As in, from where and from what does it originate? If you want coffee at Starbucks you gotta interact with the barista |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2022 7:39:45 GMT -5
Come on all you Self realised Folks What is it that you have realised Consciousness to be?
What does this reflect in all things manifest and unmanifest? Explain how what you are transcended mind and self and then had this grand realisation that you are Consciousness . Consciousness is Form. |
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