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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2022 10:41:56 GMT -5
You are not a state. One way to point to what is meant by this is that you are what states appear into and eventually run their course and disappear from. This is why some of those ducks you are hunting will sometimes quack-up a distinction between "Consciousness" (perpetual change) and "Awareness" (absolute ground of empty being from which all change arises). Not something you can theorize about. Not successfully, anyway. You are too clever by half.
You have made a distinction between consciousness and awareness by redefining the meaning of those terms. This is why you are a weirdo, a member of a cult. Unless your wife is as whacked out as you, I bet you don't ever talk either to her or the people at Exxon Mobil the way you are talking to me now. Perpetual change. What the hell is that?
Absolute ground of empty being? I can relate with that after knocking back a dozen shots of scotch.
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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2022 10:43:09 GMT -5
Bohm's function of the entirety of all information is a facial absurdity. How would you ever express it in terms of what it was expressing? IOW: inherently unknowable. But mathematicians have been objectifying "infinity" since L'Hôpital. Go check out the absurd mess of the current state of that particular art.  I never said the endless mind spin doesn't have practical implications.  (see what I did there?) That's kind of the definition of Implicate Order. Who cares about practical applications? What's Planck's quantum limit? It's the window of the unknowable. Is space quantized? Yes. Is time quantized? Yes. What does it mean when an electron makes a quantum jump? It does not traverse either time or space. What does it mean that entangled particles are synced instantaneously? Instantaneously is pretty quick. Implicate Order. Time and space, explicate order. you're using it to pretend as if it tells you something you can know.  |
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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2022 10:43:54 GMT -5
What's so special about human consciousness? Human consciousness is more able than squirrel consciousness is gathering nuts and storing them. Human consciousness can do a lot of fun things after scarfing down nuts for dinner. It is the bad things that human consciousness do that I want stopped. You, are not a machine.  Don't define yourself functionally. It's bullshit. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2022 10:48:25 GMT -5
Do you see how this is related to what Krishna said to Arjuna? No, I don't. Is that the Gita? I tried to read that once. I got bored with all the stuff the guy in the chariot was wrestling with. I am an American. I don't pussyfoot around. I send in the calvary and sort things out. But the guy driving the jalopy said essentially what you said here .. why isn't everyone waiving at you? Why are some using you as an arrow's bullseye or ignoring you and staring at their iphones instead??  |
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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2022 10:51:03 GMT -5
You're just playing with the definition of "sound". How do you define sound but as "vibrations in the air"? The question still comes down to "what hears the sound?". Stop thinking about it. And you were playing with the gieger counter. Why can't he play with air? Air rocks the ear drum, the scientist says.
Nah, that was Bryan Cranston, I was just parroting his lines. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jul 26, 2022 11:11:46 GMT -5
You can't know others perceive because you can't get into their head. But you know you perceive, so you the perceiver must exist. But not what is perceived. So according to this thinking what can be known is pivotal. Which btw is far removed from ND, because what can't be known is actually much more important. But if we follow their logic, then in deep sleep we must not exist because there's no perception. Or is it we can't know we exist because there's no perception? Pretzelitis, definitely.
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Post by sree on Jul 26, 2022 11:45:41 GMT -5
okay, noted. Makes sense. So then would it reasonable to put 'consciousness' into the appearance category as it pertains to the individual? I would not call consciousness an appearance. It's as if the sun is awareness and the reflected light from the moon is consciousness and the reflection of the moon in the lake is the object which is an appearance and which has become illuminated by the illumination the moon has borrowed from the sun. You and stardustpilgrim are those western spiritualists with one leg planted in science and the other planted in zen. What you two need is one helluva kick right in between from me.
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I need to pin you down for effective discussion which, to me, is cornering a pesky fly and smashing it so hard that it stops bugging mankind which is me.
To you,
1. Awareness (universal) is the sun.
2. Consciousness (personal) is reflected light from the moon. 3. Appearance is the moon's reflection on the lake.
Am I seeing you right in my cross hairs?
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Post by sree on Jul 26, 2022 12:13:57 GMT -5
This video presentation exemplifies the working of the conditioned human consciousness when attention is absent. This enables magician to perform magic tricks, pickpockets to lift your wallets, and politicians to sell you down the river. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 26, 2022 12:27:16 GMT -5
What's wrong with inherently unknowable? That's kind of the definition of Implicate Order. Who cares about practical applications? What's Planck's quantum limit? It's the window of the unknowable. Is space quantized? Yes. Is time quantized? Yes. What does it mean when an electron makes a quantum jump? It does not traverse either time or space. What does it mean that entangled particles are synced instantaneously? Instantaneously is pretty quick. Implicate Order. Time and space, explicate order. you're using it to pretend as if it tells you something you can know. I have been clear about my POV for probably at least 10 years here. I think I understand somewhat your ontology. So just trying to clarify. There is nothing, for you, beyond the quantum "gap"? There is-only chaos? So for you the Implicate order is nonsense. Is that a fair assessment? Not a problem, a very few here consider reality is a "three-layer-cake". ouroboros is on to something, there about 3/4 of the iceberg hidden, the unmanifest. But it IS. The Bible says God dwells in unapproachable light. Do you know of the "mystical" writing the could of unknowing? I'm sure you are familiar with apophatic unknowing. All I think/know/surmise is that the quantum world is an opaque window (now we see through a window darkly), but 'on-the-other-side' is Consciousness and Originating Intelligence (the Implicate Order). If it were not so we might as well have material realism, and Darwinism. I don't know anything. I don't know anything. But I know I don't know anything. But I know there is a trail that crosses the quantum gap (metaphorically). There is a vast Intelligence, sdp does not accept that all-of-It is beyond knowing. If I am banging my head against an impenetrable existential wall, why does that bother you? I basically only write by metaphor and analogy and indirection. I can't help it if you sometimes read more into it than I wrote. Thusly, I know that transmission is outside the scriptures. I doubt we will ever see out of the same window. I can't help that. And yes, I point to a something else that it seems few see. Would you have me not-do-that? It's a free forum. It's not my problem if people are not interested. There is always further. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2022 12:40:36 GMT -5
I'm inclined to express the notion that, as is often the case, "Reefs is right" (but I will take it further): both form and emptiness are misconceptions .. and yet, the heart remains. When there is only Perfection, then yes they would be. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 26, 2022 12:44:33 GMT -5
This video presentation exemplifies the working of the conditioned human consciousness when attention is absent. This enables magician to perform magic tricks, pickpockets to lift your wallets, and politicians to sell you down the river. Right, that's why I labeled it as 'Layers'... CUT! |
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Post by sree on Jul 26, 2022 12:53:36 GMT -5
Human consciousness is more able than squirrel consciousness is gathering nuts and storing them. Human consciousness can do a lot of fun things after scarfing down nuts for dinner. It is the bad things that human consciousness do that I want stopped. That's almost a worthy life task. But I understand that it is impossible. But I also don't give advice or tell people how to live. Worthy? I think it is right down dangerous. I could get killed if I try to stop the lowlife pulling into the gas station and pounding the concrete floor with his rap music, or succeed in getting enough public momentum to stop Congress destroying the country and the world.
I don't give a damn how people want to live. Human energy is toxic. And when it spills over into my life and poses a threat, I want it stopped.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 26, 2022 12:57:33 GMT -5
You can't know others perceive because you can't get into their head. But you know you perceive, so you the perceiver must exist. But not what is perceived. So according to this thinking what can be known is pivotal. Which btw is far removed from ND, because what can't be known is actually much more important. But if we follow their logic, then in deep sleep we must not exist because there's no perception. Or is it we can't know we exist because there's no perception? Pretzelitis, definitely. Yah, mon. The dilemma for the mind is annoying as fuggall. What's NOTHING within which even the mind's imagined nothing/space/emptiness/stuff and the paradox pretzel appear? Can there actually be an 'answer'? Nah. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 26, 2022 13:12:59 GMT -5
That's almost a worthy life task. But I understand that it is impossible. But I also don't give advice or tell people how to live. Worthy? I think it is right down dangerous. I could get killed if I try to stop the lowlife pulling into the gas station and pounding the concrete floor with his rap music, or succeed in getting enough public momentum to stop Congress destroying the country and the world. I don't give a damn how people want to live. Human energy is toxic. And when it spills over into my life and poses a threat, I want it stopped.
I didn't ever think you were suggesting this (kind of thing). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2022 13:18:02 GMT -5
saw this on twitter this morning and thought it was pretty cool. it's called digital art I guess. Sound off? What a snob! Sure it would be rather low on our personal playlists.. but it would be on the master playlist somewhere.. and who are we to judge? expand your horizons!  |
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(see what I did there?) 
Don't define yourself functionally. It's bullshit.
