Vegetarian or Not

[jimmytantric]

I have struggled with the veggiie tarian or not issue for a while. I know it's a personal thangy, just wanted to see what others felt on the issue.Currently the only meat I eat is turkey, sardines and eggs. I know this might be opening up a can of worms, but hopefully others thoughts or points will put this issue to rest once and for all. Thanks to All. Peace OM. The Force is YOU

[Portto]

Hi Jimmy,

It looks like a certain diet is just like a certain type of practice. Many diets/practices work.
IMO, you can eat a bit of whatever you enjoy, just don't eat too much.

[question]

Are eggs meat?

I was eating meat virtually every day until I was 20 or so. Was flirting with vegetarianism, the idea sounded nice, but didn't really care much about it. Then one day as my grandmother was lying on her deathbed, out of the blue a decision was made to not eat meat anymore. From that moment on I didn't touch meat and had no desire whatsoever to eat meat. And don't get me wrong, it smells and tastes delicious, but I don't want to eat it. I have no idea why. This story is one of those that I have zero explanation for, the decision was made for me and I didn't have enything to do with it.

I draw the line of what to eat or not, at living beings of which I strongly suspect that they are conscious, and beings that, if they could communicate it to me, would probably say that they would rather live than be dead. So it's kind of like the application of the kantian categorical imperative (I wouldn't like to be eaten, and so I don't eat those who don't like to be eaten). At least that's how explain it to others, but honestly that's not how I chose to be a veggie, those are just the guidelines of what I'm allowed to eat or not.

After the decision I quickly lost 10 kg, but other than that I didn't notice anything unusual happening. The transition was absolutely smooth and instant.

[karen]

I started going vegan-lite (I don't research every single non-food product to make sure is wasn't made with animal products) not for "spiritual", ethical, or health reasons.

I can't say that eating meat is wrong or un-natural. It's a huge-ass stretch to say it's un-natural (but the quantities American's eat is far far past the historical average no doubt).

And if one evolved to eat meat, then how could one say that was "wrong" on some ethical reasons?

And I've never been a health nut: never cared enough about myself in the past to care.

It's just that I can't stand the thought of my consuming animal products in the now has an effect to maintain or increase the demand for future production of more individuals who''ll have a crappy life and death by my standards. If you found and offered me real mammoth meat I would gladly eat it to say I did. And I wouldn't hesitate to eat it in survival situations.

It wasn't thought out. It was a bottom-up thing. My tolerance levels and shields of denial were too thin to continue. But I'd never try to convince anyone of anything, and I don't lecture people about it (however if one trys to blow smoke up my a$$ about the topic I will call people on the facts).

[desertrain]

I became a vegetarian a couple of years ago out of spiritual reasons. I was convinced by a website that it was beneficial for spiritual development. The same website also recommended celibacy, and vegetarianism was supposed to help in maintaining that. To others I would tell it was for ethical reasons, though in reality I wasn't really that concerned about animals.

Today I've all but dropped by original reasons for becoming a vegetarian. I have no idea if it really helps spiritually at all, but I would venture a guess that it does make the mind lighter some way. Again, I don't really know, and I would have go back to eating meat in order to find out. That I'm not ready to do, though I've had a couple of slips and I've also eaten fish a couple of times. I think I may have become a bit more sensitive to animal suffering so that I couldn't just start eating meat again so easily. I would have to think where that meat came from.

[alpha]

I once decided to give up all food as an experiment on how the emotions would react, the most difficult part was my wife's opposition to the exercise, so after three days I went back to the table,
I also remember when I spent a week at a Kristnamurti centre, where only a veg diet was served, after just seven days my voice became noticeably different,wierd!
As someone who has reared thousands of animals for human consumption, I have known the personality of many of those animals, from the joy of the delivery of the "baby"- often in the middle of the night- to the sadness of the slaughter three years later,
Young animals need great care and attention and -like humans-some will remember this kindness, so often when I walk into the centre of say fifty, three- year- olds, about five or six will approach to give a "nudge" as if to say "I remember",
also animals live in total harmony with each other and even in a group of one hundred, each one will know the "peck" order, if there is any doubt, there will be a brief fight between the two involved, then all will return to peace again,
I always admire vegitarians, especially when its done for the right reasons,but I don't believe animal wellfare is one of these,
is it better for an animal to live three years of care and attention in its natural environment, or not to live at all?
All animal and human suffering can be eliminated by not being born!
I don't like "factory farming" which I believe is confined to the rearing of pigs and poultry, in unnatural environments, but the trend now is to return to nature,
In my opinion, nature never designed any food for eating,all plants were designed to recreate, not to be eaten, likewise all animals,
BTW apples and roses cannot be grown from seed, if an apple seed is sown it will produce a crabtree, and if a rose seed is sown it will produce a briar bush.

[lightmystic]

Interestingly, I started off as a vegetarian, and then moved into eating meat. I still eat meat quite regularly, and enjoy it. My body definitely appreciates it. I know that's not true for everyone though. I only eat red meat once or twice every other week or so, so I eat mostly white meat.

And, to tangent off a little bit, I can definitely feel the personality of the animal in the food, and sometimes the suffering or not suffering that was involved in the animal's death. But it's not disturbing to me, it's just part of life. I don't support the way these animals are raised or treated and such, but then I don't support the way most humans are raised and treated either, so if it's about my opinions on fixing the world, I could go on forever. Good thing I don't put too much stock in my opinions or I'd be a very unhappy camper....

Also, I'm not exactly saying the whole truth when I say that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of it, including suffering. There's a feeling of meaning that just isn't going away.....

And, just to continue the argument that I started with myself... vegetables have awareness too. Life takes life to continue living. There's no way around that. And I find that there are a lot of projections of their own pain that people put on "other people's suffering". And that feeling bad gets in the way of actual compassion, as actual compassion does not hurt one's heart in any way.....
That seems to be the central reasons for questions about vegetarianism.....but I do not think eating meat is "better" than vegetarianism either. As long as one is educated and is eating the right kind of complementary proteins (and getting vitamin b12 from milk, or pill form if one is a vegan) then it can be a lot healthier than being a meat eater in many ways. It just depends on what's right for the person ultimately....

[souley]

My spiritual development has had some effects on what I eat! I know (feel) what my body wants to eat more often than before. Sometimes it's chips/meat/red steak, but it's generally much lighter. Previously I never ate vegetarian food, now it's probably at 50% or so. At times I think it's a trend towards complete vegetarian, but it seems I can't really make any decisions like that. Sometimes it's meat.. but most often not. It's an interesting question, I don't want to kill people, I don't want to kill animals. But it seems I want to eat them sometimes..?

[Portto]

Feb 1, 2010 15:44:17 GMT -5 souley said:

I don't want to kill people, I don't want to kill animals. But it seems I want to eat them sometimes..?

I'm hoping the last phrase does not refer to the first part of the first phrase.

While I don't follow any specific diet, I find myself very interested in fruits lately.
I sometimes go for days just eating fruits and grains.

[souley]

lol! Maybe if I had no other choice, like in the movie Alive

[jimmytantric]

Thanks to ALL that shared and now I realize this issue will never be resolved(Maybe that is the resolution),lol

[karen]

Yes. I think it's resolved individually.

[lightmystic]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Probably because it's not just one way. It's really what's right for any given person at any given moment. Being a meat eater today and vegetarian again tomorrow could be what's right for me for all I know....

Feb 1, 2010 18:35:20 GMT -5 jimmytantric said:

Thanks to ALL that shared and now I realize this issue will never be resolved(Maybe that is the resolution),lol

[luminateartist]

What an interesting conversation! This is a topic I've chewed on myself, and so far just ended up eating less meat than before, and am comfortable with it, although couldn't defend eating animals if pressed.

I especially enjoy the thoughts above from alpha and lightmystic and souley! I would say morally I find resonance and familiarity from my own thought process with what alpha has written.

I respect vegitarian folks, but to me vegan seems (sorry) silly. Nowadays, even chain grocers have cage free organic eggs available 7 days a week, and organic milk, and I know those animals would not exist without the demand for their offerings to us. I do consider the animals' living condition (and the farmers, by the way) when I make my dollar choices.

But, I still eat meat several times a month, sometimes several times a week.

[luminateartist]

Taking this a little further;

on earth;
many animals I know, including many people, like to have a job! They might not like it when asked to work 40 or 60 hours a week, or when confined, or deprived of social contact, but given those things, they seem more content when someone cares if and how they complete a task. So at least as to eggs and milk, this satisfies me on consuming them morally.

before earth;
I believe people are largely on the physical earth for the experience and opportunity to learn. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I believe the same with animals and fish. I wonder though - were all their spirits seeking to come here? Or do some get drafted?