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Post by zendancer on Feb 17, 2022 13:32:42 GMT -5
Roy, name calling is also not allowed. There are other ND websites and forums where you can do that if you wish. You might want to check them out.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 17, 2022 17:01:25 GMT -5
Roy, you've posted your text wall and your video. People who are interested can read the text or watch the video. Any postings that involve name calling or denigration of others will be removed, and if you persist, you will be banned from the site. Take this as a friendly warning.
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Post by roydop on Feb 17, 2022 17:53:40 GMT -5
Roy, you've posted your text wall and your video. People who are interested can read the text or watch the video. Any postings that involve name calling or denigration of others will be removed, and if you persist, you will be banned from the site. Take this as a friendly warning. I'm asking you a simple question. Why don't you watch the video? If you delete this it proves all of the stuff that I was saying that you deleted.
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Post by laughter on Feb 17, 2022 18:20:26 GMT -5
Freedom means not having to be concerned about thinking. As Hui Neng put it, "Without hindrance let the mind function freely." Who or what is it that would want to stop thoughts? Find THAT, and see if thoughts are then still a problem. Could Hui Neng have brought the Bodhidharma his mind? I suspect minds like states are because folks think it so. Is there something innate in the soil that makes this Florida? Or is it because folks think it so? Not saying it's good or bad, btw. They are useful concepts. But the operative word here is "think." It is thought that propagates the delusion of a separate self, a mind. It is the fuel that feeds the fire of separateness. Though it is quite natural, sometimes even pleasurable. Tolle starts Now with "You Are Not Your Mind". The first time I read this it acted as a sort of subconscious hypnotic suggestion: the suggestion to interrupt the self-referential cycle of thought/emotion -> sense of self .. etc ... the suggestion to just ... stop. It is mind that objectifies, and in this, we objectify mind. I'd naturally followed different modes of this interruption my entire life - physical exertion, solitary silent walks, natural beauty, intense sexual encounters, music, admiring art and architecture, all to name a few. But it wasn't until Tolle implicitly suggested self-inquiry like this that I became aware of the existential implications of those interruptions. Intellect can either notice a limit to where it can no longer meaningfully tread in a pattern such as: "it is mind that objectifies, and in this we objectify mind". Or not. Even more generally, the recursive nature of that statement about mind-as-object is the same pattern of self-referential thought/emotion/sense-of-self. I actually found that intellectual insight useful during the time of intense and conscious seeking that eventually followed having read Now, many months afterward. As I think you might already know from your past work experience, recursive structures like these can be used to build self-generating systems.
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Post by roydop on Feb 17, 2022 18:33:57 GMT -5
Agreed. But I was asking about Hui Neng specifically. His statement suggests the mind is an entity. I don't think Hui Neng would agree with that interpretation of his words. What he's saying is that humans have an intellect-- a capacity for imagining images, ideas, and symbols--and that there's no need to control thought, restrict thought, or end thought because thinking is simply an aspect of THIS. There's a great quote by some ZM who said something like this: I spent ten years learning to become mentally silent, but after I finally realized what's going on, staying silent no longer mattered. Today there's both thinking as well as silence, and no effort to change a thing. Seng Stan, the Third Patriarch, states the same sort of thing in his "Verses on the Faith Mind:" "If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas. Indeed, to accept them fully is identical with true Enlightenment." Of course, these guys said this after attaining non-abidance in mind and having a big insight into the nature of THIS. " I spent ten years learning to become mentally silent, but after I finally realized what's going on, staying silent no longer mattered. Today there's both thinking as well as silence, and no effort to change a thing." You simply didn't go deep/far enough. Then you sought out (unenlightened) teachers that were teaching what you wanted to hear. It's just that simple. There is no effort within roy dopson to abide in/as Mauna because he went far enough. Now the effort is trying to think/engage in the world. Abidance in/as Self is now the preferred state, which makes it easy.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 17, 2022 18:34:50 GMT -5
Roy, you've posted your text wall and your video. People who are interested can read the text or watch the video. Any postings that involve name calling or denigration of others will be removed, and if you persist, you will be banned from the site. Take this as a friendly warning. I'm asking you a simple question. Why don't you watch the video? If you delete this it proves all of the stuff that I was saying that you deleted. I've already stated that I almost never watch videos that people post here. If a post gets deleted, it only proves that the post violated the rules that the moderator established.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 17, 2022 18:40:36 GMT -5
I don't think Hui Neng would agree with that interpretation of his words. What he's saying is that humans have an intellect-- a capacity for imagining images, ideas, and symbols--and that there's no need to control thought, restrict thought, or end thought because thinking is simply an aspect of THIS. There's a great quote by some ZM who said something like this: I spent ten years learning to become mentally silent, but after I finally realized what's going on, staying silent no longer mattered. Today there's both thinking as well as silence, and no effort to change a thing. Seng Stan, the Third Patriarch, states the same sort of thing in his "Verses on the Faith Mind:" "If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas. Indeed, to accept them fully is identical with true Enlightenment." Of course, these guys said this after attaining non-abidance in mind and having a big insight into the nature of THIS. " I spent ten years learning to become mentally silent, but after I finally realized what's going on, staying silent no longer mattered. Today there's both thinking as well as silence, and no effort to change a thing." You simply didn't go deep/far enough. Then you sought out (unenlightened) teachers that were teaching what you wanted to hear. It's just that simple. There is no effort within roy dopson to abide in/as Mauna because he went far enough. Now the effort is trying to think/engage in the world. Abidance in/as Self is now the preferred state, which makes it easy. Please pay attention. That wasn't my quote; that was a quote from someone else, although I do understand what the fellow was pointing to. Also, don't assume that you know what other people have realized. I assume that you know what they say about the word "assume."
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Post by zazeniac on Feb 18, 2022 8:27:53 GMT -5
Let's just say the agitation in my head reswmbles much of the discourse here. If I'm to be fine with it because it is also THIS. Then f$ck THIS. Pardon the language. And saying f$ck to THIS is also THIS, a bit circular and nonsensical. My intent is not to offend anyone, except Laffy. I'm just telling you where this body/mind is coming from.
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Post by roydop on Feb 18, 2022 14:20:14 GMT -5
I'm asking you a simple question. Why don't you watch the video? If you delete this it proves all of the stuff that I was saying that you deleted. I've already stated that I almost never watch videos that people post here. If a post gets deleted, it only proves that the post violated the rules that the moderator established. You are SO afraid that you delete my posts pointing it out. You're pathetic. There, delete this and kick me out of this f$ucking echo chamber You are missing out on the greatest spiritual text ever written. Your loss
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 14:31:17 GMT -5
I've already stated that I almost never watch videos that people post here. If a post gets deleted, it only proves that the post violated the rules that the moderator established. You are SO afraid that you delete my posts pointing it out. You're pathetic. There, delete this and kick me out of this f$ucking echo chamber You are missing out on the greatest spiritual text ever written. Your loss Wow. A level of delusional arrogance that is comical, or disturbing - I can't decide.
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Post by laughter on Feb 18, 2022 14:43:04 GMT -5
Let's just say the agitation in my head reswmbles much of the discourse here. If I'm to be fine with it because it is also THIS. Then f$ck THIS. Pardon the language. And saying f$ck to THIS is also THIS, a bit circular and nonsensical. My intent is not to offend anyone, except Laffy. I'm just telling you where this body/mind is coming from. .. you know this is an opportunity ... we see you.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 18, 2022 15:58:52 GMT -5
You are SO afraid that you delete my posts pointing it out. You're pathetic. There, delete this and kick me out of this f$ucking echo chamber You are missing out on the greatest spiritual text ever written. Your loss Wow. A level of delusional arrogance that is comical, or disturbing - I can't decide. In the realm of ND this is quite common. Unlike Zen, which has a methodology for bringing people back down to earth and shaking them free of delusion, Advaita Vedanta has nothing equivalent to that. In fact, to become sanctioned to teach in the Zen tradition, people are subjected to public questioning by a group of peers, and only if they can satisfactorily respond to the questioning, are they allowed to function as teachers. Even then, their understanding must be sanctioned by two other Zen Masters before they can become recognized as Zen Masters, themselves. The case of Hakuin is instructive in the this regard. Hakuin had a big CC and went to his master for acknowledgement. His master, however, simply laughed at him. Hakuin couldn't believe that his understanding hadn't been authenticated, but he continued to meditate, and had another big CC. When he went to his master again and presented his deeper understanding, his master knocked him off the porch of the zendo into the mud and couldn't stop laughing. From that point onward he called Hakuin "that poor hole-dwelling devil." Hakuin had several more realizations, and at a certain point his understanding became sufficiently deep that his master quit laughing at him. Nevertheless, it took Hakuin several more years to fully appreciate the depth of his master. We've had four or five people come to this forum over the last ten years proclaiming, in essence, that they were enlightened, but the more they posted, the more obvious it became that they were all "poor hole-dwelling devils." When challenged, some of them became enraged and threatened to sue everyone who disparaged their understanding, and some of them left in a huff and never returned. Here's a basic truism: people who claim that they're spiritually advanced, or enlightened, or have a deeper understanding than anyone else, are stuck in one of the major pitfalls on the path to freedom, truth, and equanimity. I once had a big realization and concluded that I had become enlightened. I presented my understanding to a teacher and he psychologically (as well as physically) knocked me on my a**! It took another 15 years before I finally understood what my teacher had understood when he beat me up! haha. Consequently, I know what it's like to be a "poor hole-dwelling devil."
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Post by laughter on Feb 18, 2022 17:52:39 GMT -5
You are SO afraid that you delete my posts pointing it out. You're pathetic. There, delete this and kick me out of this f$ucking echo chamber You are missing out on the greatest spiritual text ever written. Your loss Wow. A level of delusional arrogance that is comical, or disturbing - I can't decide. Seems to me that Roy's core point about people adding yet another layer between themselves and reality is a worthy existential contemplation, relatively speaking. There are people who actually believe we'll be able to "transfer our consciousness into electronic form", and there's the recent development of Zuck's "Metaverse". It's got to be frustrating for him in trying to relate this to people, especially people who he might have hoped would have the potential to understand what he was getting at. Everyone wants to be able to relate, after all.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 18, 2022 18:14:43 GMT -5
Wow. A level of delusional arrogance that is comical, or disturbing - I can't decide. Seems to me that Roy's core point about people adding yet another layer between themselves and reality is a worthy existential contemplation, relatively speaking. There are people who actually believe we'll be able to "transfer our consciousness into electronic form", and there's the recent development of Zuck's "Metaverse". It's got to be frustrating for him in trying to relate this to people, especially people who he might have hoped would have the potential to understand what he was getting at. Everyone wants to be able to relate, after all. I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone who responded to Roy's postings had a problem with that particular issue. The issue that many of us disagreed with him about was his idea that there needed to be a total cessation of thinking and that the practice of silence was all that mattered. Based on his postings, he doesn't appear to have penetrated the illusion of selfhood much less penetrated the illusion of thingness.
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Post by laughter on Feb 18, 2022 18:46:34 GMT -5
Seems to me that Roy's core point about people adding yet another layer between themselves and reality is a worthy existential contemplation, relatively speaking. There are people who actually believe we'll be able to "transfer our consciousness into electronic form", and there's the recent development of Zuck's "Metaverse". It's got to be frustrating for him in trying to relate this to people, especially people who he might have hoped would have the potential to understand what he was getting at. Everyone wants to be able to relate, after all. I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone who responded to Roy's postings had a problem with that particular issue. The issue that many of us disagreed with him about was his idea that there needed to be a total cessation of thinking and that the practice of silence was all that mattered. Based on his postings, he doesn't appear to have penetrated the illusion of selfhood much less penetrated the illusion of thingness. Oh, yes, of course, I don't disagree. I was just trying to empathize for a beat. Thanks for sharing your mind on the details. Hakuin was on my mind earlier today, as well.
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