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Post by zendancer on Sept 28, 2021 14:54:05 GMT -5
Yes, that's the issue. In the case of this character, the two realizations happened sequentially, moments apart, but they didn't happen simultaneously. In the case of Bankei, the second realization happened a year later. After reviewing Bankei's account, and reflecting upon a significant number of people I know personally who attained SR, the sequence is somewhat different for everyone. Some rare folks, such as the Buddha, apparently got the whole thing via one big CC/kensho, but that's uncommon. Its far more common to have a series of insights and kensho events over an extended period of time until the mind is finally put to rest. The Big Picture is then seen and understood, and the natural state is attained. Even then, although seeking comes to an end, the path of Self-discovery never ends because Self is infinite, and, as Jesus supposedly said, "In my Father's house are many mansions." Cool, what is this discovery like? It can actually be almost anything from the relatively mundane to the unimaginable. I have no idea what happened to Hakuin at an advanced age, but he claimed that the biggest satori of his life occurred long after his initial satori, and he had had numerous deep insights even before his initial satori. Reefs and I had assumed that satori was the Zen equivalent of SR, but Hakuin seems to have been referring to a specific kensho of extreme depth. Hakuin is the ZM who a local girl claimed was the father of her daughter. When her parents brought the baby to Hakuin in anger and told him that he was the father, Hakuin supposedly said, "Is that so?" He took the baby, and cared for it, and ignored the outrage of his community. The girl finally confessed that the real father was a boy from a neighboring town, and her parents rushed to apologize to Hakuin and get the baby back. Hakuin, when told that he was not the father, supposedly said, "Is that so?" and handed the baby over. This story and many others about him are well-known in Japan. On a more mundane level, I talked to a fellow who attained SR in about 2005.That event ended all of his seeking. He told me that he had been a long time meditator, and that he continued meditating after SR until one day it suddenly became obvious that it didn't matter whether he meditated or not because whatever was happening was the happening of Source. He said something like, "The freedom just kept getting deeper and deeper as time went by." As for Jesus, I don't think the biblical record gives much context for his statement.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 28, 2021 15:44:27 GMT -5
Cool, what is this discovery like? ... As for Jesus, I don't think the biblical record gives much context for his statement. I agree that it matters only what that quote, or event, or dream means to you; your interpretation at your level. That's multi-layered symbolism. It doesn't matter what JC meant. Surely, this doesn't mean that your interpretation is the right one for you, just that you shouldn't blindly trust another's.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2021 21:09:36 GMT -5
Yes, that's the issue. In the case of this character, the two realizations happened sequentially, moments apart, but they didn't happen simultaneously. In the case of Bankei, the second realization happened a year later. After reviewing Bankei's account, and reflecting upon a significant number of people I know personally who attained SR, the sequence is somewhat different for everyone. Some rare folks, such as the Buddha, apparently got the whole thing via one big CC/kensho, but that's uncommon. Its far more common to have a series of insights and kensho events over an extended period of time until the mind is finally put to rest. The Big Picture is then seen and understood, and the natural state is attained. Even then, although seeking comes to an end, the path of Self-discovery never ends because Self is infinite, and, as Jesus supposedly said, "In my Father's house are many mansions." Cool, what is this discovery like? What about our Mother’s House which is all accomodating Sdp? I can’t get my head around gender-favouritism; help me or Brother.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2021 21:37:04 GMT -5
Cool, what is this discovery like? What about our Mother’s House which is all accomodating Sdp? I can’t get my head around gender-favouritism; help me out Brother. Or Sister…
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Post by inavalan on Sept 28, 2021 22:02:24 GMT -5
Cool, what is this discovery like? What about our Mother’s House which is all accomodating Sdp? I can’t get my head around gender-favouritism; help me or Brother. New American Standard Bible "In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you." --- John 14:2 - commentariesTo me, that means that each personality (house) has several states of consciousness (rooms). JC was projecting there to acquire knowledge and guidance to share with his adepts, and prepare them to follow in his steps. The Father is the non-physical entity that incarnated into the current personality, a symbolic "father", an originator.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 29, 2021 7:43:00 GMT -5
Cool, what is this discovery like? What about our Mother’s House which is all accomodating Sdp? I can’t get my head around gender-favouritism; help me or Brother. Look around, we're in the Mother's house.
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 29, 2021 8:47:48 GMT -5
Whether it happens once, gradually or in phases is a temporal consideration. Now we're debating if Self has a penis. Though I often wonder why there's a preponderance of enlightened men. Either gender is a factor or there's a lot of bs in this industry.
Devoted savikalpa samadhi is the only object worth considering.
I had a profound deep flow experience on the john today. Don't mind my comment or take it seriously since I and you don't exist.
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Post by zendancer on Sept 29, 2021 10:09:40 GMT -5
Whether it happens once, gradually or in phases is a temporal consideration. Now we're debating if Self has a penis. Though I often wonder why there's a preponderance of enlightened men. Either gender is a factor or there's a lot of bs in this industry. Devoted savikalpa samadhi is the only object worth considering. I had a profound deep flow experience on the john today. Don't mind my comment or take it seriously since I and you don't exist. There are many enlightened women, although they're not quite as well known as the men--Barbara Rhodes, Jan frazier, Gangagji, Tess Hughes, Linda Clair, etc. etc. Tolle, Mooji, Adyashanti, Spira, etc., just have bigger name recognition, probably because of best seller books and tons of videos on youtube.
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 29, 2021 11:37:06 GMT -5
Whether it happens once, gradually or in phases is a temporal consideration. Now we're debating if Self has a penis. Though I often wonder why there's a preponderance of enlightened men. Either gender is a factor or there's a lot of bs in this industry. Devoted savikalpa samadhi is the only object worth considering. I had a profound deep flow experience on the john today. Don't mind my comment or take it seriously since I and you don't exist. There are many enlightened women, although they're not quite as well known as the men--Barbara Rhodes, Jan frazier, Gangagji, Tess Hughes, Linda Clair, etc. etc. Tolle, Mooji, Adyashanti, Spira, etc., just have bigger name recognition, probably because of best seller books and tons of videos on youtube. So are the men more enlightened or are they better at bull-- I mean PR?
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Post by steven on Sept 29, 2021 12:39:50 GMT -5
Cool, what is this discovery like? It can actually be almost anything from the relatively mundane to the unimaginable. I have no idea what happened to Hakuin at an advanced age, but he claimed that the biggest satori of his life occurred long after his initial satori, and he had had numerous deep insights even before his initial satori. Reefs and I had assumed that satori was the Zen equivalent of SR, but Hakuin seems to have been referring to a specific kensho of extreme depth. Hakuin is the ZM who a local girl claimed was the father of her daughter. When her parents brought the baby to Hakuin in anger and told him that he was the father, Hakuin supposedly said, "Is that so?" He took the baby, and cared for it, and ignored the outrage of his community. The girl finally confessed that the real father was a boy from a neighboring town, and her parents rushed to apologize to Hakuin and get the baby back. Hakuin, when told that he was not the father, supposedly said, "Is that so?" and handed the baby over. This story and many others about him are well-known in Japan. On a more mundane level, I talked to a fellow who attained SR in about 2005.That event ended all of his seeking. He told me that he had been a long time meditator, and that he continued meditating after SR until one day it suddenly became obvious that it didn't matter whether he meditated or not because whatever was happening was the happening of Source. He said something like, "The freedom just kept getting deeper and deeper as time went by." As for Jesus, I don't think the biblical record gives much context for his statement. There aren’t any rules to this stuff whatsoever from what this little wave has observed…the infinite is ripe with infinite possibility, and where there is possibility in the infinite, those possibilities occur. Even the dividing lines we demarcate between Kensho and SR or Cosmic Consciousness events become fuzzy zones we cross intellectually instead of firm lines of demarcation. Where does a deep Kensho become a small SR event? By what means would one measure that, and more importantly, why would one measure it lol My own experiences have been just that, my own, and those experiences are part of the one beyond numbering, but they are unique though similar to many. For decades I intensely practices many forms of meditation, though they all had a common thread of relaxed focussed alertness that opened into an expansive alive emptiness from which all things perceived seem to spring. Along the way there were MANY insights and realizations. When one seeks, one finds, and I was seeking anything and everything below the next layer of whatever onion I was giving attention to at the time. Many mysteries were revealed to me, as happens when one looks with alertness snd earnestness from that still silent place. But there was always the seeking of not just knowledge, but gnosis, and I felt like I had accomplished much on that path. Then one day, at this vary forum, we were discussing the nature of truth and knowledge rather heatedly if I recall. I paused and went to meditate as was my want back then…and then the really big one came for this one. I realized that I don’t actually know anything, that there were no ‘ultimate truths’, not even stuff I had realized in Kensho experienced or deeply gnosis’d, and that…that was okay, I don’t need to know. At the moment that I accepted that I didn’t ‘need to know’ it all stopped, I had a Cosmic Consciousness event that lasted for what must have been several days…a walking talking breathing cosmic consciousness event where there remained a fierce alertness and aliveness and a profound stillness to everything within and without. The only thoughts that very rarely occurred was a ringing thought saying “it just is” that rung through the universe but also just passed like a single wispy cloud passing through the clear blue empty sky that my mind became. It just is. Eventually, after a few days, maybe a week or more, I sort of came back down into myself. But interest in all things spiritual, and meditation, the things that consumed my life for decades just disappeared completely…that’s about the time I stopped participating in this forum. That’s still the case for me by and large. You guys have some fascinating discussions here, or at least they use to be fascinating to me, now not at all. We are all just an accumulation of memories and experiences that step out from the whole and go back to it without ever having left in the first place. When I turn my attention to it that oneness is always there, always was. But for whatever reasons God shapes us into theses patterns of being, we experience, we do, we think, and that’s as it should be or we wouldn’t be here doing it. So that’s my life now, when I’m moved to do something or accomplish something I do it, when I’m moved to love I love, when I’m moved to anger I anger, and the vast space in between these movements is empty and peaceful.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 29, 2021 14:10:25 GMT -5
It can actually be almost anything from the relatively mundane to the unimaginable. I have no idea what happened to Hakuin at an advanced age, but he claimed that the biggest satori of his life occurred long after his initial satori, and he had had numerous deep insights even before his initial satori. Reefs and I had assumed that satori was the Zen equivalent of SR, but Hakuin seems to have been referring to a specific kensho of extreme depth. Hakuin is the ZM who a local girl claimed was the father of her daughter. When her parents brought the baby to Hakuin in anger and told him that he was the father, Hakuin supposedly said, "Is that so?" He took the baby, and cared for it, and ignored the outrage of his community. The girl finally confessed that the real father was a boy from a neighboring town, and her parents rushed to apologize to Hakuin and get the baby back. Hakuin, when told that he was not the father, supposedly said, "Is that so?" and handed the baby over. This story and many others about him are well-known in Japan. On a more mundane level, I talked to a fellow who attained SR in about 2005.That event ended all of his seeking. He told me that he had been a long time meditator, and that he continued meditating after SR until one day it suddenly became obvious that it didn't matter whether he meditated or not because whatever was happening was the happening of Source. He said something like, "The freedom just kept getting deeper and deeper as time went by." As for Jesus, I don't think the biblical record gives much context for his statement. There aren’t any rules to this stuff whatsoever from what this little wave has observed…the infinite is ripe with infinite possibility, and where there is possibility in the infinite, those possibilities occur. Even the dividing lines we demarcate between Kensho and SR or Cosmic Consciousness events become fuzzy zones we cross intellectually instead of firm lines of demarcation. Where does a deep Kensho become a small SR event? By what means would one measure that, and more importantly, why would one measure it lol My own experiences have been just that, my own, and those experiences are part of the one beyond numbering, but they are unique though similar to many. For decades I intensely practices many forms of meditation, though they all had a common thread of relaxed focussed alertness that opened into an expansive alive emptiness from which all things perceived seem to spring. Along the way there were MANY insights and realizations. When one seeks, one finds, and I was seeking anything and everything below the next layer of whatever onion I was giving attention to at the time. Many mysteries were revealed to me, as happens when one looks with alertness snd earnestness from that still silent place. But there was always the seeking of not just knowledge, but gnosis, and I felt like I had accomplished much on that path. Then one day, at this vary forum, we were discussing the nature of truth and knowledge rather heatedly if I recall. I paused and went to meditate as was my want back then…and then the really big one came for this one. I realized that I don’t actually know anything, that there were no ‘ultimate truths’, not even stuff I had realized in Kensho experienced or deeply gnosis’d, and that…that was okay, I don’t need to know. At the moment that I accepted that I didn’t ‘need to know’ it all stopped, I had a Cosmic Consciousness event that lasted for what must have been several days…a walking talking breathing cosmic consciousness event where there remained a fierce alertness and aliveness and a profound stillness to everything within and without. The only thoughts that very rarely occurred was a ringing thought saying “it just is” that rung through the universe but also just passed like a single wispy cloud passing through the clear blue empty sky that my mind became. It just is. Eventually, after a few days, maybe a week or more, I sort of came back down into myself. But interest in all things spiritual, and meditation, the things that consumed my life for decades just disappeared completely…that’s about the time I stopped participating in this forum. That’s still the case for me by and large. You guys have some fascinating discussions here, or at least they use to be fascinating to me, now not at all. We are all just an accumulation of memories and experiences that step out from the whole and go back to it without ever having left in the first place. When I turn my attention to it that oneness is always there, always was. But for whatever reasons God shapes us into theses patterns of being, we experience, we do, we think, and that’s as it should be or we wouldn’t be here doing it. So that’s my life now, when I’m moved to do something or accomplish something I do it, when I’m moved to love I love, when I’m moved to anger I anger, and the vast space in between these movements is empty and peaceful. Nice, sincere thoughts ... On the other hand, a similar vision could have a bear, or a tree, or a rock, ... but we're humans. We're a little ahead of those, so our vision has / should-have a different nuance. Even more ... the bear, the tree, the rock are closer to their inner-nature than the modern-man is. Even the primitive-man was (is) closer). We aren't what we're telling us we are.
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 29, 2021 15:47:31 GMT -5
It can actually be almost anything from the relatively mundane to the unimaginable. I have no idea what happened to Hakuin at an advanced age, but he claimed that the biggest satori of his life occurred long after his initial satori, and he had had numerous deep insights even before his initial satori. Reefs and I had assumed that satori was the Zen equivalent of SR, but Hakuin seems to have been referring to a specific kensho of extreme depth. Hakuin is the ZM who a local girl claimed was the father of her daughter. When her parents brought the baby to Hakuin in anger and told him that he was the father, Hakuin supposedly said, "Is that so?" He took the baby, and cared for it, and ignored the outrage of his community. The girl finally confessed that the real father was a boy from a neighboring town, and her parents rushed to apologize to Hakuin and get the baby back. Hakuin, when told that he was not the father, supposedly said, "Is that so?" and handed the baby over. This story and many others about him are well-known in Japan. On a more mundane level, I talked to a fellow who attained SR in about 2005.That event ended all of his seeking. He told me that he had been a long time meditator, and that he continued meditating after SR until one day it suddenly became obvious that it didn't matter whether he meditated or not because whatever was happening was the happening of Source. He said something like, "The freedom just kept getting deeper and deeper as time went by." As for Jesus, I don't think the biblical record gives much context for his statement. There aren’t any rules to this stuff whatsoever from what this little wave has observed…the infinite is ripe with infinite possibility, and where there is possibility in the infinite, those possibilities occur. Even the dividing lines we demarcate between Kensho and SR or Cosmic Consciousness events become fuzzy zones we cross intellectually instead of firm lines of demarcation. Where does a deep Kensho become a small SR event? By what means would one measure that, and more importantly, why would one measure it lol My own experiences have been just that, my own, and those experiences are part of the one beyond numbering, but they are unique though similar to many. For decades I intensely practices many forms of meditation, though they all had a common thread of relaxed focussed alertness that opened into an expansive alive emptiness from which all things perceived seem to spring. Along the way there were MANY insights and realizations. When one seeks, one finds, and I was seeking anything and everything below the next layer of whatever onion I was giving attention to at the time. Many mysteries were revealed to me, as happens when one looks with alertness snd earnestness from that still silent place. But there was always the seeking of not just knowledge, but gnosis, and I felt like I had accomplished much on that path. Then one day, at this vary forum, we were discussing the nature of truth and knowledge rather heatedly if I recall. I paused and went to meditate as was my want back then…and then the really big one came for this one. I realized that I don’t actually know anything, that there were no ‘ultimate truths’, not even stuff I had realized in Kensho experienced or deeply gnosis’d, and that…that was okay, I don’t need to know. At the moment that I accepted that I didn’t ‘need to know’ it all stopped, I had a Cosmic Consciousness event that lasted for what must have been several days…a walking talking breathing cosmic consciousness event where there remained a fierce alertness and aliveness and a profound stillness to everything within and without. The only thoughts that very rarely occurred was a ringing thought saying “it just is” that rung through the universe but also just passed like a single wispy cloud passing through the clear blue empty sky that my mind became. It just is. Eventually, after a few days, maybe a week or more, I sort of came back down into myself. But interest in all things spiritual, and meditation, the things that consumed my life for decades just disappeared completely…that’s about the time I stopped participating in this forum. That’s still the case for me by and large. You guys have some fascinating discussions here, or at least they use to be fascinating to me, now not at all. We are all just an accumulation of memories and experiences that step out from the whole and go back to it without ever having left in the first place. When I turn my attention to it that oneness is always there, always was. But for whatever reasons God shapes us into theses patterns of being, we experience, we do, we think, and that’s as it should be or we wouldn’t be here doing it. So that’s my life now, when I’m moved to do something or accomplish something I do it, when I’m moved to love I love, when I’m moved to anger I anger, and the vast space in between these movements is empty and peaceful. Curious about what compels the occasional commentary. Is is some residual thought pattern, affection, or frustration? Don't feel obliged to satisfy my curiosity.
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Post by steven on Sept 29, 2021 19:10:06 GMT -5
There aren’t any rules to this stuff whatsoever from what this little wave has observed…the infinite is ripe with infinite possibility, and where there is possibility in the infinite, those possibilities occur. Even the dividing lines we demarcate between Kensho and SR or Cosmic Consciousness events become fuzzy zones we cross intellectually instead of firm lines of demarcation. Where does a deep Kensho become a small SR event? By what means would one measure that, and more importantly, why would one measure it lol My own experiences have been just that, my own, and those experiences are part of the one beyond numbering, but they are unique though similar to many. For decades I intensely practices many forms of meditation, though they all had a common thread of relaxed focussed alertness that opened into an expansive alive emptiness from which all things perceived seem to spring. Along the way there were MANY insights and realizations. When one seeks, one finds, and I was seeking anything and everything below the next layer of whatever onion I was giving attention to at the time. Many mysteries were revealed to me, as happens when one looks with alertness snd earnestness from that still silent place. But there was always the seeking of not just knowledge, but gnosis, and I felt like I had accomplished much on that path. Then one day, at this vary forum, we were discussing the nature of truth and knowledge rather heatedly if I recall. I paused and went to meditate as was my want back then…and then the really big one came for this one. I realized that I don’t actually know anything, that there were no ‘ultimate truths’, not even stuff I had realized in Kensho experienced or deeply gnosis’d, and that…that was okay, I don’t need to know. At the moment that I accepted that I didn’t ‘need to know’ it all stopped, I had a Cosmic Consciousness event that lasted for what must have been several days…a walking talking breathing cosmic consciousness event where there remained a fierce alertness and aliveness and a profound stillness to everything within and without. The only thoughts that very rarely occurred was a ringing thought saying “it just is” that rung through the universe but also just passed like a single wispy cloud passing through the clear blue empty sky that my mind became. It just is. Eventually, after a few days, maybe a week or more, I sort of came back down into myself. But interest in all things spiritual, and meditation, the things that consumed my life for decades just disappeared completely…that’s about the time I stopped participating in this forum. That’s still the case for me by and large. You guys have some fascinating discussions here, or at least they use to be fascinating to me, now not at all. We are all just an accumulation of memories and experiences that step out from the whole and go back to it without ever having left in the first place. When I turn my attention to it that oneness is always there, always was. But for whatever reasons God shapes us into theses patterns of being, we experience, we do, we think, and that’s as it should be or we wouldn’t be here doing it. So that’s my life now, when I’m moved to do something or accomplish something I do it, when I’m moved to love I love, when I’m moved to anger I anger, and the vast space in between these movements is empty and peaceful. Curious about what compels the occasional commentary. Is is some residual thought pattern, affection, or frustration? Don't feel obliged to satisfy my curiosity. The iPhone has a favorites menu in the web browser for websites you frequent or want to save or reference later, this site is in my save menu near the top from along time ago. Every time I open the favorites menu I scroll past it to the site I want. Occasionally, perhaps out of a kind of affection, I click on it. When here I usually read one or two of Zendancer’s posts, abs that sometimes leads to a reply. I suppose I gravitate to checking out Zendancers posts because of his advanced age, and wanting to see how the old fella is doing. He and I both have vastly different personalities I suspect, but there are some similarities. We both have basically a scientific mind, we both had a burning insatiable curiosity about the nature of things, god, ourselves when we were younger, and pursued it with a single minded determination. We both raised a family, had successful business careers, and still uncovered a few of those things we were seeking, enough to stop seeking anyway. But he’s about 30 years on from me, so he’s a bit of an Elder on a loosely similar path in life.
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Post by zazeniac on Sept 29, 2021 21:21:27 GMT -5
Curious about what compels the occasional commentary. Is is some residual thought pattern, affection, or frustration? Don't feel obliged to satisfy my curiosity. The iPhone has a favorites menu in the web browser for websites you frequent or want to save or reference later, this site is in my save menu near the top from along time ago. Every time I open the favorites menu I scroll past it to the site I want. Occasionally, perhaps out of a kind of affection, I click on it. When here I usually read one or two of Zendancer’s posts, abs that sometimes leads to a reply. I suppose I gravitate to checking out Zendancers posts because of his advanced age, and wanting to see how the old fella is doing. He and I both have vastly different personalities I suspect, but there are some similarities. We both have basically a scientific mind, we both had a burning insatiable curiosity about the nature of things, god, ourselves when we were younger, and pursued it with a single minded determination. We both raised a family, had successful business careers, and still uncovered a few of those things we were seeking, enough to stop seeking anyway. But he’s about 30 years on from me, so he’s a bit of an Elder on a loosely similar path in life. Thanks for sharing. It is touching. A rarity here so busy with filled heads. Mine included.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 3:33:00 GMT -5
What about our Mother’s House which is all accomodating Sdp? I can’t get my head around gender-favouritism; help me or Brother. New American Standard Bible "In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you." --- John 14:2 - commentariesTo me, that means that each personality (house) has several states of consciousness (rooms). JC was projecting there to acquire knowledge and guidance to share with his adepts, and prepare them to follow in his steps. The Father is the non-physical entity that incarnated into the current personality, a symbolic "father", an originator. ty, my Mother sent me to one of those houses at age 5
and I had to sit-it-out with all the other boys and girls attending Sunday School, my bladder stretched to the limit.
I asked to go to the loo but the ugly woman wouldn't allow us to move; we had to all experience how bad our parents were
for killing Gods Son and so when the bell was rung for milk and cookies, I bolted, leaving my wet patch for her to clean-up and never returned.
Have you not gone beyond lifes curtain yet?
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