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Post by zazeniac on Jan 21, 2021 22:09:29 GMT -5
I deleted the post because I have no desire to engage in this and regretted posting it. I'm telling you regarding Wayne County what you assert is incorrect. There are no precincts with more votes cast than population. Regarding stacks of ballots being scanned multiple times, you know as well as I do that databases don't allow primary key duplicates. Unless you're buying into the Dominion conspiracy. If they were scanned multiple times, it's more than likely that the scan failed. I would offer the same argument you propose that your political proclivities predispose you to ignore certain facts. The most poignant of these is why did Barr state the election was won by Biden? What I wrote actually admitted this -- or at least I certainly meant to imply it by referring to the proclivity of each side and how we're each in the same nth-hand boat. Perhaps you're misreading what I prefaced that wasn't insult: my point was that your perspective is easily found by searching or consuming media, as it's by far the dominant narrative broadcast. The fact was that those Detroit precincts were officially reported as "unbalanced", and, to my knowledge, that was never explained. The population claim is an interesting one, as it should be easy to either confirm or debunk based on raw data, and I'd certainly be interested if you have a source either way. You're making an assumption about the way the Dominion system works that neither of us is really privy to, the claims of the rescanning are made from a review of the video evidence and based on eye-witness reports. My opinion as to the nature of Barr's claim is far from objective. It seems to me that he didn't find what he never really looked for, and his lack of interest is the same as his motivation for delaying the Durham probe. The one most salient factor of the Turmp phenomenon is that it finally put some reality into what I'd term as the past uniparty theater of contest that was instead cooperation, at the expense of the American people. The only people that Trump united are the political, financial, economic and cultural elites, and I pose to you, why is it accepted norm that the political elites live in 10 figure houses after having lived lives of ostensible "public service" on 6 figure salaries? The Detroit in person precincts do not correlate with the mail in ballot counting boards. The are 500 and some precincts and 170 some mail in counting boards. The process to correlate the two is manual, haphazard and has always been unreliable. That means there are more votes counted than correlated. But this is not an anomaly in this election. And not evidence of fraud. It has happened in every election. When Wayne County publishes Detroit results, they always show the mailed in ballots and in person ballot data separately. In other words you can't say which mail in ballots belong to which in person precinct. So anyone who makes the claim that more votes were counted in a precinct than the population is making a bogus claim. We have very different definitions of elites. It seems that elites who earn their living in business are not, except for Soros? But politicians who live in ten figure homes? That's billions right? Billion dollar homes? I think you meant seven figure homes. I made a six figure salary and lived in a seven figure home in CA. I guess by your definition I'm an elite, but Trump isn't? Or Steve Bannon who traipses around with a Chinese billionaire isn't an elite? Or Tucker Carlson who's worth 25 million or so? Or Hannity. I can't help but think your logic strange. Wait are you going to tell me that these elites are fighting for the little guy? Rupert Murdoch is a working class hero? These are guys who don't even wipe their own asses. So you're convinced that Democrats are elites, but Trump, Jared and Ivanka are not? Look the only thing Trump ever said that remotely sounded like he had even a semblance of acumen was that politicians could be bought, that he'd bought some in the past. But when he took office, he did nothing about it. He just got mad at the ones he couldn't buy because other folks had bought them. Like I told my neighbor after Obama won in 2008. He was convinced Obama was going to put white people in concentration camps. We have the best government money can buy. Nothing changed with Trump. We have a plutocracy as Jimmy Carter aptly stated. The only thing with Trump is that it was blatantly obvious. Now it's less obvious. The only plausible reason for Barr to have stated publicly that Biden won is because he couldn't prove that he didn't win even with all the legal and investigative tools at his disposal. I'm ready to drop this. You can have the last word. I'm done with this thread. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 21, 2021 22:53:49 GMT -5
What I wrote actually admitted this -- or at least I certainly meant to imply it by referring to the proclivity of each side and how we're each in the same nth-hand boat. Perhaps you're misreading what I prefaced that wasn't insult: my point was that your perspective is easily found by searching or consuming media, as it's by far the dominant narrative broadcast. The fact was that those Detroit precincts were officially reported as "unbalanced", and, to my knowledge, that was never explained. The population claim is an interesting one, as it should be easy to either confirm or debunk based on raw data, and I'd certainly be interested if you have a source either way. You're making an assumption about the way the Dominion system works that neither of us is really privy to, the claims of the rescanning are made from a review of the video evidence and based on eye-witness reports. My opinion as to the nature of Barr's claim is far from objective. It seems to me that he didn't find what he never really looked for, and his lack of interest is the same as his motivation for delaying the Durham probe. The one most salient factor of the Turmp phenomenon is that it finally put some reality into what I'd term as the past uniparty theater of contest that was instead cooperation, at the expense of the American people. The only people that Trump united are the political, financial, economic and cultural elites, and I pose to you, why is it accepted norm that the political elites live in 10 figure houses after having lived lives of ostensible "public service" on 6 figure salaries? The Detroit in person precincts do not correlate with the mail in ballot counting boards. The are 500 and some precincts and 170 some mail in counting boards. The process to correlate the two is manual, haphazard and has always been unreliable. That means there are more votes counted than correlated. But this is not an anomaly in this election. And not evidence of fraud. It has happened in every election. When Wayne County publishes Detroit results, they always show the mailed in ballots and in person ballot data separately. In other words you can't say which mail in ballots belong to which in person precinct. So anyone who makes the claim that more votes were counted in a precinct than the population is making a bogus claim. We have very different definitions of elites. It seems that elites who earn their living in business are not, except for Soros? But politicians who live in ten figure homes? That's billions right? Billion dollar homes? I think you meant seven figure homes. I made a six figure salary and lived in a seven figure home in CA. I guess by your definition I'm an elite, but Trump isn't? Or Steve Bannon who traipses around with a Chinese billionaire isn't an elite? Or Tucker Carlson who's worth 25 million or so? Or Hannity. I can't help but think your logic strange. Wait are you going to tell me that these elites are fighting for the little guy? Rupert Murdoch is a working class hero? These are guys who don't even wipe their own asses. So you're convinced that Democrats are elites, but Trump, Jared and Ivanka are not? Look the only thing Trump ever said that remotely sounded like he had even a semblance of acumen was that politicians could be bought, that he'd bought some in the past. But when he took office, he did nothing about it. He just got mad at the ones he couldn't buy because other folks had bought them. Like I told my neighbor after Obama won in 2008. He was convinced Obama was going to put white people in concentration camps. We have the best government money can buy. Nothing changed with Trump. We have a plutocracy as Jimmy Carter aptly stated. The only thing with Trump is that it was blatantly obvious. Now it's less obvious. The only plausible reason for Barr to have stated publicly that Biden won is because he couldn't prove that he didn't win even with all the legal and investigative tools at his disposal. I'm ready to drop this. You can have the last word. I'm done with this thread. Yes, I should have written 8-figure, not 10-figure, obvious mental fizz on my part.  Now, this error corrected, how do you explain that? How do you explain a legislator or an administrator who never made more than 150k a year with a real-estate portfolio north of 10 million a year, and why is that an accepted social, and quite common norm? Trump is analogous to Julius Caesar in his rabble rousing against the patricians, even as he was near the top of that heap, already, no doubt. But I did include the business elite in my list of elites, I didn't leave them out. As for Steve, nothing like a man working for a pardon of his own freedom to motivate him.  I don't have a problem with people getting rich, in fact, in a free society it's to be expected. But over time the every-deepening cooperation between the people who run finance and industry and the people who run government has been impossible to ignore, to the point where we've had what I think of as a kleptocratic uniparty for most of my adult life. All Trump and the other's had to do to exploit this was simply call it out for what it was. That was self-interested, no doubt, but the result is now that over 70+ million people seemed to have signaled in the last election that they've become conscious of at least the hint of it. No, I have no illusions about Trump's altruism, but he was also naive, and stubborn. He seemed to have refused to abandon the anti-establishment rhetoric that got him elected. In case you haven't noticed, this arrayed what was by far the lion's share of the wealth and the media and cultural influence against him. How does editing his part out of Home Alone not remind you of Stalin erasing that guy from a picture, and are you familiar with the operative definition of fascism, and, if so, how does that definition not apply to the lock-step hivemind of big tech, the msm, various psudo-private establishments such as the medical/drug industries, higher education, banking and finance, the entertainment industry, and the current Democratic party and the titular leaders of the Republican party? |
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Post by laughter on Jan 21, 2021 22:59:33 GMT -5
The Detroit in person precincts do not correlate with the mail in ballot counting boards. The are 500 and some precincts and 170 some mail in counting boards. The process to correlate the two is manual, haphazard and has always been unreliable. That means there are more votes counted than correlated. But this is not an anomaly in this election. And not evidence of fraud. It has happened in every election. When Wayne County publishes Detroit results, they always show the mailed in ballots and in person ballot data separately. In other words you can't say which mail in ballots belong to which in person precinct. So anyone who makes the claim that more votes were counted in a precinct than the population is making a bogus claim. Ok, thanks for the explanation of the distinction between the counting boards and the precincts, that's interesting. But please note that the fact that the failure to reconcile the entities isn't an anomaly from past years isn't a sound argument that there's no irregularity. It also doesn't refute the excess voter claim, it just offers an explanation for why people might be confused. You've read what you've read about the population claim, and I've read what I've read, and now I'm interested enough that I might do some extra research on the question. Note, though, that this is very difficult to do given the way that google has restructured their algorithm to bury and suppress any sources skeptical of the election results. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 21, 2021 23:09:14 GMT -5
Yes, I should have written 8-figure, not 10-figure, obvious mental fizz on my part. Now, this error corrected, how do you explain that? How do you explain a legislator or an administrator who never made more than 150k a year with a real-estate portfolio north of 10 million a year, and why is that an accepted social, and quite common norm? Trump is analogous to Julius Caesar in his rabble rousing against the patricians, even as he was near the top of that heap, already, no doubt. But I did include the business elite in my list of elites, I didn't leave them out. As for Steve, nothing like a man working for a pardon of his own freedom to motivate him. I don't have a problem with people getting rich, in fact, in a free society it's to be expected. But over time the every-deepening cooperation between the people who run finance and industry and the people who run government has been impossible to ignore, to the point where we've had what I think of as a kleptocratic uniparty for most of my adult life. All Trump and the other's had to do to exploit this was simply call it out for what it was. That was self-interested, no doubt, but the result is now that over 70+ million people seemed to have signaled in the last election that they've become conscious of at least the hint of it. No, I have no illusions about Trump's altruism, but he was also naive, and stubborn. He seemed to have refused to abandon the anti-establishment rhetoric that got him elected. In case you haven't noticed, this arrayed what was by far the lion's share of the wealth and tje media and cultural influence against him. How does editing his part out of Home Alone not remind you of Stalin erasing that guy from a picture, and are you familiar with the operative definition of fascism, and, if so, how does that definition not apply to the lock-step hivemind of big tech, the msm, various psudo-private establishments such as the medical/drug industries, higher education, banking and finance, the entertainment industry, and the current Democratic party and the titular leaders of the Republican party?
George Orwell's "1984": about the Ministry of Truth ... |
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Post by laughter on Jan 21, 2021 23:20:49 GMT -5
We have a plutocracy as Jimmy Carter aptly stated. The only thing with Trump is that it was blatantly obvious. Now it's less obvious. In my opinion the mass exodus from FOX to OANN and NewsMax signals the exact opposite. Trump's approval rating on the day he left office was 51%, so it seems to me that the excesses of the ruling hivemind have caught the attention of a large segment of the population. The only plausible reason for Barr to have stated publicly that Biden won is because he couldn't prove that he didn't win even with all the legal and investigative tools at his disposal. The fact that Durham didn't and probably will never release his results is evidence to the contrary, that instead, Barr wasn't interested in proving anything of the sort. But that doesn't mean that people who have interest in the evidence of irregularities need to be re-educated or de-programmed. Try to get present to some of that rhetoric coming out of the "anti-Trump camps". "Camps". Wow, nice word, sounds like a place where we do "truth and reconcilliation", right?  I'm ready to drop this. You can have the last word. I'm done with this thread. It's actually easy to continue putting energy into a dialog if one witholds emotional investment.  ( .. yes, I know .. I'm a monster! .. )  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 1:21:35 GMT -5
We have a plutocracy as Jimmy Carter aptly stated. The only thing with Trump is that it was blatantly obvious. Now it's less obvious. In my opinion the mass exodus from FOX to OANN and NewsMax signals the exact opposite. Trump's approval rating on the day he left office was 51%, so it seems to me that the excesses of the ruling hivemind have caught the attention of a large segment of the population. 51% is the Rasmussen poll (the best for Trump). He was dropping fast in the others. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 1:38:55 GMT -5
In my opinion the mass exodus from FOX to OANN and NewsMax signals the exact opposite. Trump's approval rating on the day he left office was 51%, so it seems to me that the excesses of the ruling hivemind have caught the attention of a large segment of the population. 51% is the Rasmussen poll (the best for Trump). He was dropping fast in the others. Right, to my knowledge Rasmussen was one of only two other than Trafalgar that didn't publish push-polling about the race that was orders of magnitude off. They had Trump losing WI by 16%, they had TX as competitive and OH and FL leaning for Joe. What's the name of that guy who said that if the polls were a repeat of '16 then it would be the end of the industry? They also promised a blue wave that would decimate the Republicans in both the house and the senate and in the open local races. All wrong, and all down the memory hole. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 2:40:13 GMT -5
What put the nails in the coffin were the two hand recounts in Georgia showing no significant difference from the machine count and a point by point refutation by Republicans who ran the election of all the bogus claims and outright lies. The election did illustrate one thing rather well--that if a lie is repeated often enough, an increasing number of people will eventually believe it even if it's totally unsupported by any evidence. Then there's the TAT teacher who told people on a virtual retreat last year that tanks and thousands of military were being secretly assembled and would soon burst into view and imprison all of the satanic pedophiles operating the deep state. You can't make this stuff up. The GA hand recount simply ran the same ballots through the machines. My understanding was that the in-person voting in GA involved a touch screen to produce a card, and that's what produced the paper trail -- so that recount would not have identified instances of what happened in Antrim County MI, for example. Interesting to note though, that several thousand uncounted votes were found in the process that netted in favor of Trump, which was a pattern that repeated itself around the country: whenever minor discrepancies were discovered and corrected (and I could link to several off the top of my head), they always seemed to favor Joe.  As far as the mail-in ballots were concerned, again, all that was counted were the ballots, that were separated from the envelopes they came in at the time they were opened, with the Republican observers required to stand too far away to challenge any of these based on the voter rolls or registration signatures (a process that was relaxed by court settlement, it turns out, as well). Also as mentioned elsewhere this produced a historically low rejection rate. What was demanded but never done was a statewide audit of the envelopes to at least compare the names, addresses and signatures with the voter rolls, and as I mentioned in a another post, there were unofficial independent analyses based on public records that suggested thousands of these were from PO Boxes and commercial addresses, in direct violation of GA law. All that I know from nth-hand information, is that someone is lying, and that yes, which ever side lied did so repeatedly. It is clear though, which side had the bigger megaphone, and Raffensperger and Kemp were hardly the only Republicans that seemed to me to be happy to see the screen door hit Trump on the ass on his way out.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 2:52:45 GMT -5
I deleted my post after I wrote it because the feelings shifted and wanted no part of the animus. Kind of got it out of my system once written. Next time I'll write it out on notepad first, before I post it. I walked away from politics because I saw what it did to my parents who were consumed with hatred much of their lives. Not judging them. They lost family and good friends. Many loved ones tortured and executed. But I got to see things first hand in Nicaragua in the 70s. It ain't pretty. People on both sides doing terrible things for what they believed were justified reasons. It can get very messy and crazy. Passion can be a dangerous thing. It's a slippery slope when you vilify others. That's why I love it when my son keeps reminding me Trump is God. Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Laughy and feel that if he sees some things as untoward then perhaps we should take a close second look to make sure it doesn't happen again. Perhaps a blue ribbon commission with folks from both parties to heal this rift. I can't believe that in a highly tech advanced country where folks can go online and verify their identify to claim social security and Medicare, we can't devise a pretty much fool proof, easy to use, voting system. It really is completely possible to read and write this stuff without animus, regardless of the rather profound consequences to the American narrative one way or the other. I can honestly say I've found the entire affair intensely interesting, and the way I'd describe the negative emotional vibes I get from these debates, is at best a sort of quizzical frustration. And I really mean that. I honestly don't hold any ill-will against you or farmer or the few other's I've debated on the topic. You can go ask figs if I hold a grudge.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 3:10:02 GMT -5
Last year has been very interesting because we can no longer separate out spirituality from the political dimension and the medical dimension. Of course, it's always nice to point back to that 'placeless place'...what a luxury that has been really for the last 10 years, but more and more, we are being asked to integrate our spirituality with 'real life' issues of what it means to be (for example)..... human, sovereign, free, abundant, eternal. (Can we have the conspiracy thread back now that it turns out all of it was true hehe....joke!) .. now, more than ever, the conspiracies have to be vetted for false flags. Perhaps it's worth asking, for anyone you listen to .. "why would they want me to agree with them?" |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 3:15:06 GMT -5
400,000+ dead Americans, due in large part to the incompetence of Trump and his team, is the greatest failure of leadership in our history. but just watch how politics work.. in short order some will try to blame Biden for that disaster your politicization and manipulation of covid, right there. And I'm seriously not interested in debating the underlying merits or debating the details of covid on this thread. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 3:17:32 GMT -5
I decided to put it to my cells and ran an election. It was a close run thing and now one side has demanded a recount. Some of them have tooled up and are busy storming the hypothalamus! no joking matter for folks who suffer from autoimmune's!  |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 22, 2021 5:59:39 GMT -5
I deleted the post because I have no desire to engage in this and regretted posting it. I'm telling you regarding Wayne County what you assert is incorrect. There are no precincts with more votes cast than population. Regarding stacks of ballots being scanned multiple times, you know as well as I do that databases don't allow primary key duplicates. Unless you're buying into the Dominion conspiracy. If they were scanned multiple times, it's more than likely that the scan failed. I would offer the same argument you propose that your political proclivities predispose you to ignore certain facts. The most poignant of these is why did Barr state the election was won by Biden?Good question. Another good question is, why did Barr upgrade Durham to special counsel status? www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/12/02/durham-special-counsel-give-biden-problems-column/3793099001/ |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 7:01:42 GMT -5
There's your politicization and manipulation of covid, right there. And I'm seriously not interested in debating the underlying merits or debating the details of covid on this thread. You can deflect and deny if you want, but the facts are the facts, and we all just watched the whole thing play out in sickening detail over the past year. And in related news Dr. Fauci could barely contain his relief and excitement yesterday about the return of truth and science to the White House. No more bleach, light disinfectant, or malaria drug nonsense from the podium. Or the coddling of a madman who admitted to Bob Woodward how serious he knew it was (while downplaying it in public). There's no doubt that effective medicine was suppressed for the greater part of last year, and those who were involved with that suppression have blood on their hands. Again, I say that as someone that isn't sorry if I don't have to hear Trump or look at Trump again. I could provide you endless links in support of Ivermectin and HCQ, but I already know you don't look at the links, so it would be a waste of energy. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 22, 2021 8:12:48 GMT -5
There's no doubt that effective medicine was suppressed for the greater part of last year, and those who were involved with that suppression have blood on their hands. Again, I say that as someone that isn't sorry if I don't have to hear Trump or look at Trump again. I could provide you endless links in support of Ivermectin and HCQ, but I already know you don't look at the links, so it would be a waste of energy. Take that stuff if you want, I'm not. I'll wait for one of the approved treatments. And I don't think there is any conclusive proof that either of those two drugs you mentioned is effective at preventing covid (seems likely they'd be using it, if it worked). Is that true? You refuse to look at links that could provide facts that would challenge your perspective? |
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Now, this error corrected, how do you explain that? How do you explain a legislator or an administrator who never made more than 150k a year with a real-estate portfolio north of 10 million a year, and why is that an accepted social, and quite common norm?
