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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 19:19:57 GMT -5
Some good stuff in there. Curious, do you ever have a tangible sense, or experience, of not being able to control your thoughts/focus? I use self-hypnosis. I adjust the level and direction of my focus as need by asking my subconscious directly. Depending on what I intend to experience I ask for a specific focus, or for an intended result. For example, I ask the subconscious to automatically adjust for sleep, workout, driving, reading, tapping my inner source of knowledge and guidance, out-of-body experience, pro/regression, ... I can also ask for a certain level of trance between 1 and 100%, a brain frequency, to disable / enable senses, ... I can also ask to project into my inner-self, a dream-self, a probable-self, ... I don't have difficulties controlling my thoughts. Sometimes when I get angry, if I don't pay attention I can obsessively think about a reaction, but usually pretty soon I realize, and let go. When I project and change my focus, I get into a "noticing" state expecting the transition, and momentarily I have no thoughts. It never takes more than a few seconds. If the transition didn't happen, I try it again. I hope that's what you asked about. hmmm it's not quite what I was asking about, but it was interesting to read and I appreciate the response thanks. When you say you project, what do you mean? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 19:27:02 GMT -5
hmmm yes, nice. I'd previously imagined Santa as more a Bezos character when out of season, cracking the whip on those elves! I like your image better. I find amusing how spiritual people go to a guru and ask a question with an expectation for a specific answer to confirm what they already proudly believe; how they unintentionally distort whatever they hear and leave with the answer they had expected, not with what the guru told them. Surely, the guru is responsible for not being more no-nonsense, but probably the guru knows that there is no way to change somebody's mind until they're prepared for that. I liked the video with Deepak and Sadhguru about the covid (recommended earlier in this thread), but I suppose everybody got from it whatever they had expected ...  yes I liked the video too, but as you said, I did get mostly what I expected, on the basis that I had some expectation of what Esponja would post. I didn't expect to fall ever slightly in love with Sadhguru and seek out a bunch more of his videos to watch after  |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 27, 2021 19:51:35 GMT -5
I use self-hypnosis. I adjust the level and direction of my focus as need by asking my subconscious directly. Depending on what I intend to experience I ask for a specific focus, or for an intended result. For example, I ask the subconscious to automatically adjust for sleep, workout, driving, reading, tapping my inner source of knowledge and guidance, out-of-body experience, pro/regression, ... I can also ask for a certain level of trance between 1 and 100%, a brain frequency, to disable / enable senses, ... I can also ask to project into my inner-self, a dream-self, a probable-self, ... I don't have difficulties controlling my thoughts. Sometimes when I get angry, if I don't pay attention I can obsessively think about a reaction, but usually pretty soon I realize, and let go. When I project and change my focus, I get into a "noticing" state expecting the transition, and momentarily I have no thoughts. It never takes more than a few seconds. If the transition didn't happen, I try it again. I hope that's what you asked about. hmmm it's not quite what I was asking about, but it was interesting to read and I appreciate the response thanks. When you say you project, what do you mean? You could reformulate your question ... I call projection a change of focus, of my point of awareness, anywhere in the consciousness domain, for example into another state / part of the whole self, into another part of the wider reality, ... |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2021 3:07:49 GMT -5
I accounted for the fact that they block air flow and droplets, but that doesn't contradict the fact that most of them won't contain the virus particles, and masking is only one factor contributing to those numbers, and it's unclear how much of a factor in those differentials it is. Little virus wingies propel the virus through the atmosphere. Exactly. That's a verbatim quote from the section of my sophomore Physics textbook on Brownian motion. But then again, I went to a state school. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2021 3:16:43 GMT -5
I know you know there is zero animosity or hard feelings over political differences. But I'm sorry you've been duped and I pray for your swift recovery Sure, sure .. but Billy's talk there raises some potentially interesting and provocative topics centered on spirituality, such as: a similarity to the third division of the Buddhist eight-fold path, the historical political division on the topic of church and state and the related question of whether secular humanism serves as the basis for a new widely accepted form of spirituality which in turn serves as the basis for several offshoot thought-cults, and most applicable to the OP, it serves as a marker of cognitive dissonance between the content of alternative media and the way that alternative media is portrayed in the corporate media.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2021 3:34:41 GMT -5
Okay, I'll bear that in mind, and if you close the thread no problem at all. An interesting article here about life in the UK for elderly folks. It's not political. www.conservativewoman.co.uk/dont-kill-granny-just-terrify-or-ignore-her/If anyone reads, I'm interested in how they think their spiritual views inform their perspective/opinion on the content (if at all). And for balance, I'll say right now, that ultimately, all of this is just mind 'minding'. Andrew: I read the article, and it seems to me that what it describes is what could reasonably be expected from different people given the overall context of what's happening. It's neither good nor bad; it's simply how life unfolds during a pandemic. Older people are generally more concerned about the virus because the mortality rate with Covid goes increasingly higher with age. I talked with our saleslady at one of our big suppliers yesterday. I thought she had been on vacation, but it turns out that she contracted the virus and was seriously ill for more than two weeks. I'm guessing that she's about 35 years old. She told me that she had previously thought the virus was something like a bad flu bug until she caught it. She apparently brought it home to her boyfriend and her mother (who lives with her and requires a lot of care-giving). She and her boyfriend were extremely sick but recovered. Her mother has never recovered and is now in hospice. Her attitude is now completely different than before, and she feels guilty for not taking it more seriously prior to getting ill. I've run into this same sort of thing several times. Many people don't think Covid is serious until they or a loved one catch the bug and have a bad case or someone dies. Our plumber thought the whole thing was a media-generated hoax, but he then caught it and was in bed with a high fever and extreme pain for 15 days. He told me last week that he still has weird pains that randomly shoot through his body during the day, and he supposedly recovered several weeks ago. A direct quote from him is, "I wouldn't wish this da!n virus on my worst enemy." In the US (perhaps also in the UK) attitudes toward the virus are highly politicized. Generally speaking, some groups of people take it more seriously than others, but both groups respond in what seem to be fairly predictable ways. The sense of false self is woven throughout the tapestry of all culture and seasons all sorts of subconscious movements. This leads to all manner of imbalance. Optimally, the civic decisions and planning with regard to the virus would have been been done free of the motive of political gain, with precise objectivity with regard to the costs and benefits involved, and yet, in consideration of compassion for the most vulnerable, both very young - who, in this case don't seem to have been in physical danger - very old, and otherwise disadvantaged and/or at greater risk of contraction. But, we are what we are, when we are, so, what happened, happened. |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 28, 2021 8:28:10 GMT -5
Andrew: I read the article, and it seems to me that what it describes is what could reasonably be expected from different people given the overall context of what's happening. It's neither good nor bad; it's simply how life unfolds during a pandemic. Older people are generally more concerned about the virus because the mortality rate with Covid goes increasingly higher with age. I talked with our saleslady at one of our big suppliers yesterday. I thought she had been on vacation, but it turns out that she contracted the virus and was seriously ill for more than two weeks. I'm guessing that she's about 35 years old. She told me that she had previously thought the virus was something like a bad flu bug until she caught it. She apparently brought it home to her boyfriend and her mother (who lives with her and requires a lot of care-giving). She and her boyfriend were extremely sick but recovered. Her mother has never recovered and is now in hospice. Her attitude is now completely different than before, and she feels guilty for not taking it more seriously prior to getting ill. I've run into this same sort of thing several times. Many people don't think Covid is serious until they or a loved one catch the bug and have a bad case or someone dies. Our plumber thought the whole thing was a media-generated hoax, but he then caught it and was in bed with a high fever and extreme pain for 15 days. He told me last week that he still has weird pains that randomly shoot through his body during the day, and he supposedly recovered several weeks ago. A direct quote from him is, "I wouldn't wish this da!n virus on my worst enemy." In the US (perhaps also in the UK) attitudes toward the virus are highly politicized. Generally speaking, some groups of people take it more seriously than others, but both groups respond in what seem to be fairly predictable ways. I think the article describes what happens in a lockdown as a RESPONSE to a pandemic, I don't think it describes what necessarily happens in a pandemic. Lockdown is a philosophical choice made by leaders. They use science to support their choice, but at the core, it is a philosophical choice based on their values, their sense of what matters, the goals they want to achieve. I'm not unconditionally opposed to lockdown, so in the UK at the beginning of January, I felt it was probably the best thing to do, all things considered, but philosophically, I believe it's overall a very flawed approach, rooted in false belief. I think it can perpetuate fear, and then that fearful consciousness continues to create conditions that one is already afraid of. In the UK, most lockdown sceptics aren't actually covid sceptics. There's a clear distinction between the two camps, though there is some crossover. From what I've seen 99% of covid sceptics don't challenge the idea that covid does kill folks, but they will challenge the way that the death certificates marked (which I think is similar in the US to the UK) and they will challenge the number of cases if a high cycle test is being used. Lockdown sceptics are more focused on what they see as the flaws of lockdown as an approach. From my POV the same thing I wrote applies to the response to a pandemic. Again, two different camps and perhaps many different reasons for how authorities choose to react. Not good nor bad; it's just what is. It may be different in the UK, but in the US it appears that a lot of lockdown skeptics are also Covid skeptics. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 28, 2021 9:11:01 GMT -5
I think the article describes what happens in a lockdown as a RESPONSE to a pandemic, I don't think it describes what necessarily happens in a pandemic. Lockdown is a philosophical choice made by leaders. They use science to support their choice, but at the core, it is a philosophical choice based on their values, their sense of what matters, the goals they want to achieve. I'm not unconditionally opposed to lockdown, so in the UK at the beginning of January, I felt it was probably the best thing to do, all things considered, but philosophically, I believe it's overall a very flawed approach, rooted in false belief. I think it can perpetuate fear, and then that fearful consciousness continues to create conditions that one is already afraid of. In the UK, most lockdown sceptics aren't actually covid sceptics. There's a clear distinction between the two camps, though there is some crossover. From what I've seen 99% of covid sceptics don't challenge the idea that covid does kill folks, but they will challenge the way that the death certificates marked (which I think is similar in the US to the UK) and they will challenge the number of cases if a high cycle test is being used. Lockdown sceptics are more focused on what they see as the flaws of lockdown as an approach. From my POV the same thing I wrote applies to the response to a pandemic. Again, two different camps and perhaps many different reasons for how authorities choose to react. Not good nor bad; it's just what is. It may be different in the UK, but in the US it appears that a lot of lockdown skeptics are also Covid skeptics. Yes, I don't know the dynamics in America well at all, but in the UK, a lockdown sceptic that isn't a covid sceptic, is likely to be 'libertarian' leaning. They will express concern about the mental health epidemic, they will talk about deaths caused by poverty, and the tons of missed doctors appointments. They will talk of how children are being denied their childhood, and how elderly people feel isolated. They are perhaps more likely to emphasise 'quality' of life, somewhat over 'quantity' of life. It's a philosophical view. They are generally pleased that there's a vaccine, but believe that it should be an entirely free choice. The covid sceptics may agree with the lockdown sceptics, but tend to be more focus on the conspiracy side of things e.g the ''Great Reset'' (that John Kerry was talking about yesterday). They are likely to not want the vaccine and are likely to be looking at issues like death certificates and cases. Both camps share a big concern about censorship (because both camps are experiencing it). Both camps are likely to have voted for Boris Johnson, and now feel very betrayed by him. The Great Barrington Declaration might be a decent example of 'lockdown sceptic' but not 'covid sceptic', though I would guess those closely involved with that movement are also focused on the medicines that are currently NOT being used in America and the UK (but are being used elsewhere), and there's an element of conspiracy to their thinking there. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 28, 2021 9:22:27 GMT -5
hmmm it's not quite what I was asking about, but it was interesting to read and I appreciate the response thanks. When you say you project, what do you mean? You could reformulate your question ... I call projection a change of focus, of my point of awareness, anywhere in the consciousness domain, for example into another state / part of the whole self, into another part of the wider reality, ... I see, thanks Okay, I'll try a reformulation. Perhaps it's better if I describe a state I experience and see if you can relate to it at all. So there are times when I experience a state in which the capacity to consciously/deliberately choose where to put my focus/attention, or where to put my thoughts, is highly diminished. That doesn't mean it's an inactive state (I can still type, eat, walk, think etc), but it's a...'passive' state. About the most I can do in that state in regard to attention, is bring it to a rest point (like meditation). It can be either pleasant or unpleasant, depending (to use an analogy here) whether I am riding a bumpy wave or a gentle wave. I guess it's a 'going with the flow' state but I can't say I'm 'choosing' to go with the flow. Then at some point that state passes into a more 'active' state in which I might project in e similar or same way that you do. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 28, 2021 14:29:29 GMT -5
You could reformulate your question ... I call projection a change of focus, of my point of awareness, anywhere in the consciousness domain, for example into another state / part of the whole self, into another part of the wider reality, ... I see, thanks Okay, I'll try a reformulation. Perhaps it's better if I describe a state I experience and see if you can relate to it at all. So there are times when I experience a state in which the capacity to consciously/deliberately choose where to put my focus/attention, or where to put my thoughts, is highly diminished. That doesn't mean it's an inactive state (I can still type, eat, walk, think etc), but it's a...'passive' state. About the most I can do in that state in regard to attention, is bring it to a rest point (like meditation). It can be either pleasant or unpleasant, depending (to use an analogy here) whether I am riding a bumpy wave or a gentle wave. I guess it's a 'going with the flow' state but I can't say I'm 'choosing' to go with the flow. Then at some point that state passes into a more 'active' state in which I might project in e similar or same way that you do. As I understand these things, we (as points of awareness) "surf" various states of consciousness. The awake state isn't an on-off state, but covers a range of focus between 100% aware, and unaware of the physical domain; we are always in a trance. For various activities there are different optimum levels of trance. When people aren't aware of this, they usually don't perform whatever activity in an optimum state of consciousness, with an optimum focus. Through meditation, rituals, drugs, and other methods, people try to adjust their level of trance to accomplish various deeds. In my opinion, the most efficient and precise method is self-hypnosis. You can use self-hypnosis to request a specific level of trance, or as it works best, you can get into a light trance to open a better line of communication with your subconscious, and ask directly your subconscious to put you in the optimum trance for whatever activity you intend to perform. Besides the fact that your subconscious knows best, this method has the advantage of eliminating the variability of your starting point: sometimes you're more, other times you're less awake when you initiate your meditation or ritual, so if you follow the same procedure you end up on different trance levels. It is also much faster: seconds. This is what I do, and it might be useful to you too. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 28, 2021 15:11:26 GMT -5
I see, thanks Okay, I'll try a reformulation. Perhaps it's better if I describe a state I experience and see if you can relate to it at all. So there are times when I experience a state in which the capacity to consciously/deliberately choose where to put my focus/attention, or where to put my thoughts, is highly diminished. That doesn't mean it's an inactive state (I can still type, eat, walk, think etc), but it's a...'passive' state. About the most I can do in that state in regard to attention, is bring it to a rest point (like meditation). It can be either pleasant or unpleasant, depending (to use an analogy here) whether I am riding a bumpy wave or a gentle wave. I guess it's a 'going with the flow' state but I can't say I'm 'choosing' to go with the flow. Then at some point that state passes into a more 'active' state in which I might project in e similar or same way that you do. As I understand these things, we (as points of awareness) "surf" various states of consciousness. The awake state isn't an on-off state, but covers a range of focus between 100% aware, and unaware of the physical domain; we are always in a trance. For various activities there are different optimum levels of trance. When people aren't aware of this, they usually don't perform whatever activity in an optimum state of consciousness, with an optimum focus. Through meditation, rituals, drugs, and other methods, people try to adjust their level of trance to accomplish various deeds. In my opinion, the most efficient and precise method is self-hypnosis. You can use self-hypnosis to request a specific level of trance, or as it works best, you can get into a light trance to open a better line of communication with your subconscious, and ask directly your subconscious to put you in the optimum trance for whatever activity you intend to perform. Besides the fact that your subconscious knows best, this method has the advantage of eliminating the variability of your starting point: sometimes you're more, other times you're less awake when you initiate your meditation or ritual, so if you follow the same procedure you end up on different trance levels. It is also much faster: seconds. This is what I do, and it might be useful to you too. Thanks! What you are saying reminds me tremendously of NLP (and I mean that in a good way). Have you ever trained in NLP, or was this method of using self-hypnosis to request a trance given to you by your own internal wisdom? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 28, 2021 16:11:52 GMT -5
As I understand these things, we (as points of awareness) "surf" various states of consciousness. The awake state isn't an on-off state, but covers a range of focus between 100% aware, and unaware of the physical domain; we are always in a trance. For various activities there are different optimum levels of trance. When people aren't aware of this, they usually don't perform whatever activity in an optimum state of consciousness, with an optimum focus. Through meditation, rituals, drugs, and other methods, people try to adjust their level of trance to accomplish various deeds. In my opinion, the most efficient and precise method is self-hypnosis. You can use self-hypnosis to request a specific level of trance, or as it works best, you can get into a light trance to open a better line of communication with your subconscious, and ask directly your subconscious to put you in the optimum trance for whatever activity you intend to perform. Besides the fact that your subconscious knows best, this method has the advantage of eliminating the variability of your starting point: sometimes you're more, other times you're less awake when you initiate your meditation or ritual, so if you follow the same procedure you end up on different trance levels. It is also much faster: seconds. This is what I do, and it might be useful to you too. Thanks! What you are saying reminds me tremendously of NLP (and I mean that in a good way). Have you ever trained in NLP, or was this method of using self-hypnosis to request a trance given to you by your own internal wisdom? As far as I recall, it was part of the guidance I received from my inner-guide. It was an iterative process. Firstly I realized the importance of the trance level (and I deepened it more or less), then I realized that I can control its level through requests to my subconscious (requesting a percentage level, or a brainwave frequency), then I realized that it is better to request an optimum trance level for the specific activity I intend (sleep, read, a creative endeavor, workout, drive, out-of-body, regression, inner guidance, ...). I read a couple of NLP books by Richard Bandler, and found them interesting and informative. Maybe they opened my eyes that all the rituals, meditation included are actually a form of self-hypnosis (although I don't recall the author saying exactly that). For example, I just read a post about a guru shocking the seeker in order to "see" a truth. This is actually a common method used by self-hypnosis and NLP to get you suddenly into trance. The underlying of the method is to create temporary confusion by overloading your system. A hypnotist shocks you with a sudden move or sound, while an NLP practitioner might word out a story that goes through more levels than your attention can compute. Both result in a sudden trance. If you practice self-hypnosis, in short time your subconscious gets more and more receptive to the suggestions you give yourself, following them more precisely, and very fast (seconds). I have no formal training on hypnosis or NLP. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2021 16:52:28 GMT -5
I'm grappling this week with the appearance that a large number of republicans in the US have formed themselves into an alternative reality in which they believe they are in the majority and the only possible way for the democrats to have won the election is for nefarious forces to have rigged it. And presumably (because the democrats won the popular vote also in 2016) that the previous election was also rigged, but 'They' just failed to rig it sufficiently in key states. This is not particularly a spiritual matter, but it has a parallel. We're all here (I hope) attempting to see What Is. What is true. What we have here is an opportunity to examine at a macro level, the motivations and mechanisms for a denial of reality (small r). The filters of selecting things we like and discarding the things we don't like until a world view is formed. Well I guess people have always believed what they want to believe and/or take on the beliefs handed to them by their parents. And then taken that view, identified the opposition as 'Other' and 'Evil' and kill them for it. But when it was just in the realm of religion it was one unprovable belief against another unprovable belief. In the political sphere though, we're saying there are facts and that they can be proven. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 29, 2021 19:59:55 GMT -5
I'm grappling this week with the appearance that a large number of republicans in the US have formed themselves into an alternative reality in which they believe they are in the majority and the only possible way for the democrats to have won the election is for nefarious forces to have rigged it. And presumably (because the democrats won the popular vote also in 2016) that the previous election was also rigged, but 'They' just failed to rig it sufficiently in key states. This is not particularly a spiritual matter, but it has a parallel. We're all here (I hope) attempting to see What Is. What is true. What we have here is an opportunity to examine at a macro level, the motivations and mechanisms for a denial of reality (small r). The filters of selecting things we like and discarding the things we don't like until a world view is formed. Well I guess people have always believed what they want to believe and/or take on the beliefs handed to them by their parents. And then taken that view, identified the opposition as 'Other' and 'Evil' and kill them for it. But when it was just in the realm of religion it was one unprovable belief against another unprovable belief. In the political sphere though, we're saying there are facts and that they can be proven. I forgot about that ... Righteousness, of any kind is amusing. People don't even realize when they don't even think their thoughts, and parrot others. People feel that they are right, and whoever and whatever contradicts their feelings must be and is wrong, and they feel entitled to say it loudly with disdain. Still, they’re sure that they’re a good person, and that they spiritually contribute to the progress and welfare of the world. What a bunch of … nonsense! Each one of us creates their own reality! If it isn’t what you want, you can’t blame anybody else! |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2021 8:06:17 GMT -5
Thanks! What you are saying reminds me tremendously of NLP (and I mean that in a good way). Have you ever trained in NLP, or was this method of using self-hypnosis to request a trance given to you by your own internal wisdom? As far as I recall, it was part of the guidance I received from my inner-guide. It was an iterative process. Firstly I realized the importance of the trance level (and I deepened it more or less), then I realized that I can control its level through requests to my subconscious (requesting a percentage level, or a brainwave frequency), then I realized that it is better to request an optimum trance level for the specific activity I intend (sleep, read, a creative endeavor, workout, drive, out-of-body, regression, inner guidance, ...). I read a couple of NLP books by Richard Bandler, and found them interesting and informative. Maybe they opened my eyes that all the rituals, meditation included are actually a form of self-hypnosis (although I don't recall the author saying exactly that). For example, I just read a post about a guru shocking the seeker in order to "see" a truth. This is actually a common method used by self-hypnosis and NLP to get you suddenly into trance. The underlying of the method is to create temporary confusion by overloading your system. A hypnotist shocks you with a sudden move or sound, while an NLP practitioner might word out a story that goes through more levels than your attention can compute. Both result in a sudden trance. If you practice self-hypnosis, in short time your subconscious gets more and more receptive to the suggestions you give yourself, following them more precisely, and very fast (seconds). I have no formal training on hypnosis or NLP. Your use of the word 'trance' is particularly reminiscent to me of Bandler and NLP. Not many people use it in the way you use it, without having had the training. So it's interesting to me that it came from within your own intelligence. And yes, Bandler is big on self-hypnosis. Just by way of anecdote, there's a Bandler story I like. His whole thing was that you have to engage with people's reality from within THEIR reality (as best you can), in order to help them create a change for themselves. He offered this story to illustrate....there was a guy in a ward for the 'insane' that believed he was Jesus. None of the doctors could help him. Bandler comes in with a tape measure and starts measuring the guy up. 'Jesus' asks Bandler what he's doing....so Bandler said....'I make crucifixes for a living, and it's time we got one measured up for you'. The guy decided he was no long Jesus It's probably a made up story, Bandler weaved in anecdote, myth, analogy and reality in a masterful way (probably still does, I don't follow the NLP crowd these days, though I'm sure it's still going strong). |
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