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Post by Reefs on Sept 26, 2020 10:57:04 GMT -5
How could someone willingly vote for Donald Trump in 2020? That's so crazy it defies explanation. It's cult like. To me, someone posting this kind of stuff is just looking for emotional support. I mean, I can’t even see a hint of rational argument here. What is the point of this? And why do some people, on a non-duality forum (!), need to always wear their political beliefs on their sleeves? You see, when we look at another and first see a representative of an ideology instead of a fellow human being, that’s playing right into the divide and conquer game. And then we all lose, because we are all in this together. I am honestly surprised at the general tone and low level of practical self-awareness that I am encountering in this thread as compared to the usually rather high level of spiritual awareness in most other threads. So I can only conclude that spiritual awareness and practical self-awareness don’t necessarily go hand in hand, i.e. people can get a good grasp of how the universe works and still don’t have the slightest clue how their own life works. Quite fascinating. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 26, 2020 11:19:18 GMT -5
I like this site, but I can't do this anymore. I tried to stay out of the BS, but I can't. It's too much for me. I'm out of here. How many times have you said this already? And if you are having a meltdown over this already, what are you going to do in November? Seriously, you need to get a grip on your out of control emotions and stop letting the news drag you around by the nose. I've already closed a thread because of you. I'm not going to do that again. Take some responsibility for how you feel. We all have our plates full these days. Some people have lost their jobs and friends and money, some even lost their neighborhoods to fire. The last thing we need here are these kind of silly ideological battles purely based on emotions. If you don't have a rational argument or something constructive to say, stay out of this thread. And watch some alternative news from time to time, you seem to live under a rock. I could counter all your arguments with a dozen of counter-links just based on recent news articles in the last 48 hours. And no one here calls you a lefty or suffering from TDS, but somehow you think you have the right to call others deluded, crazy and nuts and paint them as subhuman because they don't agree with you. Get a grip, please! And act your age! [end of rant] |
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Post by andrew on Sept 26, 2020 14:07:59 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth.
Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use.
I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years.
For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya.
Here's a beautiful Springsteen song from the 70s. As someone said in the comments....'one of the best things humans have ever created'
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Post by laughter on Sept 26, 2020 14:45:55 GMT -5
How could someone willingly vote for Donald Trump in 2020? That's so crazy it defies explanation. It's cult like. For me, in '16, it was a vote against Clinton, and that hasn't changed all that much. My decision is based on who it is that's opposed to him, and to the lengths they go in that opposition: every media outlet, all of academia, career politicians from both parties, most major corporations, all the big tech billionaires .. it's a long list. To the positive, he's the first President since Bush Sr. who has reduced our overseas military footprint and the only one I've heard use the term "endless wars". He's angered the drug companies by taking steps to roll back their pricing practices where Americans pay multiples of most other nations, and while I scoffed the same way Obama did with the "magic wand" comment, I see his interest in trying to reverse de-industrialization as a worthy goal. My biggest negative is exactly what I expected out of him: he's a big debt guy, and he's only made that situation worse. He's a man of poor character and leaves much to be desired as an individual, no doubt, but as I've already said, the only difference I see between him and most other powerful people is his (often unselfconscious) candor. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 26, 2020 14:51:56 GMT -5
How could someone willingly vote for Donald Trump in 2020? That's so crazy it defies explanation. It's cult like. It's called deliusion, wishful thinking, a view of reality so skewed, they invent their own version. It goes like this. If Trump loses then the Democrats cheated. If he wins, then the election is fair. They call a question that challenges this notion a "double bind." I call this argument, bullsh!t. They claim folks who vote against Trump, just hate him because of the media. More bullsh!t. Spencer, Mattis, Taylor, Tillerson, Bolton, Scaramucci and many more folk who spent time with him recognized the truth. He's unfit. Has there ever been a president where so many who worked for the man came out publicly condemning him? Never. With the exception of Nixon, maybe. These are not Democratic Party operatives or media people. Hardly liberals. I tried to stay out of this argument because it is toxic. It's a game to them. It's not to me. The most disappointing part of it, is the cagey attempt to discount the pandemic, knowing that this host is attempting to curtail misinformation about the it, they couched their words in "maybe." "Maybe folks were profiting. "Maybe" the CDC numbers aren't real. This is probably in response to my quoting Trump saying the disease is "deadly." All their assertions about the pandemic are false. Look them up in Snopes or Factcheck. They'll claim these are left wing entities and unreliable. Because only their version of events are reliable.. Yet some crazy who believes ships with large fans can steer hurricanes is reliable and Scott Adams is a liberal because he's from California. I have family who are immune compromised, an organ transplant, and one fighting breast cancer. I fear for them. They are vulnerable. My nephew was in the thick of it as an intern in a southern hospital. I'd like to hear them tell him it isn't real in person. It would not go well. This is personal. All you have to do is look at sites like WorldMeter. Compare the new infection rates and deaths for European countries to the US. Even Tegnell in Sweden is now talking about implementing shutdowns in Stockholm. And their experiment has cost ten times as many lives as neighboring countries like Norway, Finland and Denmark with an equivalent hit to their economy. Denmark is opening up with testing and contact tracing. Look at South Korea. They've opened up without a sordid death toll. Compare it to Brazil where Bolsonaro said it was like a flu. Compare Brazil to Paraguay and Uruguay. Look at Portugal's data, even Portugal. Look at their deaths per million. But this is all anti-Trump propaganda. The death toll isn't real. It's not happening. Trump isn't incompetent. He's a misunderstood genius. Even when Trump says that it's deadly. They'll come up with some nonsense like he was duped by deep state operatives, elitist scientists like Birks and Fauci. It's wild. On the other site their talking about the forest fires in CA being caused by some kind of weapon. Their orld is Ttopsy turvy. Big corporations are now leftists trying to implement socialism. Rich people like Trump and Carlson and Limbaugh are for the working people. I remember Limbaugh on the radio promoting NAFTA back in the nineties. He said four Mexicans can't out work a good old American worker. I like this site, but I can't do this anymore. I tried to stay out of the BS, but I can't. It's too much for me. I'm out of here. Listen, for what it's worth I have no objection to your objections or your opinions ( any of them), I really truly, accept them for what they are and your right to them, and I do believe I've refrained from pursuing a direct debate on any of these issues with you in particular other than making an initial statement of opinion. We should all be entitled to speak our minds, and given the intensity of the current situation it would have been unusual if the election hadn't come up, even given how far off-topic it is. Hope to talk to you again soon.  |
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Post by laughter on Sept 26, 2020 14:54:54 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth. Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use. I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years. For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya. Here's a beautiful Springsteen song from the 70s. As someone said in the comments....'one of the best things humans have ever created' Yes, even this forum at it's worst, compared to what I've seen out on the rest of the web, it's still quite tame. And we all know that the way (in the past) to bring out the worst isn't anything to do with politics, but instead, it's questioning someones SR status or appearing to talk down to them if they deny it.  |
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Post by andrew on Sept 26, 2020 15:02:33 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth. Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use. I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years. For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya. Here's a beautiful Springsteen song from the 70s. As someone said in the comments....'one of the best things humans have ever created' Yes, even this forum at it's worst, compared to what I've seen out on the rest of the web, it's still quite tame. And we all know that the way (in the past) to bring out the worst isn't anything to do with politics, but instead, it's questioning someones SR status or appearing talking down to them if they deny it. LOL don't need no fact checker to know that is 100% true. |
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Post by inavalan on Sept 26, 2020 18:08:01 GMT -5
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Post by Reefs on Sept 26, 2020 21:53:10 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth. Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use. I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years. For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya. I think you are right about the common denominator. Some say it's almost a bit like a spiritual family that has gathered here. It's a pity what happened with the forum split and such. But I think at the time it was probably the best option. But I think circumstances have significantly changed now. Maybe it's time for a family reunion. What do you guys think? Let me know. Maybe we can do a vote. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 26, 2020 21:58:59 GMT -5
Yes, hang around Z. I've enjoyed your posts. Just ignore this one thread. Agreed. Zeniac, just try to approach this forum with its many threads like you would approach a large buffet with its many different dishes. If fish always makes you want to throw up then go for the chicken or the salad instead. There's also no need to get rid of the fish on the table. Just don't put it on your plate and everything will be fine. See you around! |
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Post by andrew on Sept 27, 2020 3:06:36 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth. Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use. I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years. For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya. I think you are right about the common denominator. Some say it's almost a bit like a spiritual family that has gathered here. It's a pity what happened with the forum split and such. But I think at the time it was probably the best option. But I think circumstances have significantly changed now. Maybe it's time for a family reunion. What do you guys think? Let me know. Maybe we can do a vote. sounds good to me...yeah, times have changed. And if some of their content doesn't work for this forum, they still have that forum to post it if they want. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 27, 2020 7:08:02 GMT -5
For me, in '16, it was a vote against Clinton, and that hasn't changed all that much. My decision is based on who it is that's opposed to him, and to the lengths they go in that opposition: every media outlet, all of academia, career politicians from both parties, most major corporations, all the big tech billionaires .. it's a long list. To the positive, he's the first President since Bush Sr. who has reduced our overseas military footprint and the only one I've heard use the term "endless wars". He's angered the drug companies by taking steps to roll back their pricing practices where Americans pay multiples of most other nations, and while I scoffed the same way Obama did with the "magic wand" comment, I see his interest in trying to reverse de-industrialization as a worthy goal. My biggest negative is exactly what I expected out of him: he's a big debt guy, and he's only made that situation worse. He's a man of poor character and leaves much to be desired as an individual, no doubt, but as I've already said, the only difference I see between him and most other powerful people is his (often unselfconscious) candor. Trump isn't "crazy lime a fox", he's just crazy. He's also lazy and shows little interest in the job - except for the power it wields, is intellectually stunted, surrounds himself with fawning sycophants, and has malignant personality and emotional disorders. He's also a psychological tormentor, repeating his lies until they become accepted, or until people throw their hands up in the air because they don't know what to be believe anymore. In short he's the most dangerous man in the world and we had all better hope for a free and fair election. I support neither Trump nor Biden...and as I said, I sense that this election is far less significant than it seems now. Just as Brexit last year absolutely engulfed the Brits attention....this year, quite honestly, most people give far less of a shiny sh/t about it. It might become more relevant again next year, we'll see. It's also worth remembering that the roots of the American (and global) problems go back a long way. Neither Trump nor Biden are key players in the big picture. For the key players we have to look at the huge oil companies, the bankers (that have been shown to fund BOTH sides during the world wars), big pharma..the monolithic corporations all round the world. Our issues are Global (I know it's hard for you yanks to see that hehe). I don't know who, out of the two, would be willing and able to address that issue best. If Biden handed over the reins to AOC, I reckon she'd have a pretty good go at sorting some stuff out. But, that won't happen. I hear talk of independent third parties (Kanye West lol?) Too late for this election though. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 27, 2020 10:56:39 GMT -5
For me, in '16, it was a vote against Clinton, and that hasn't changed all that much. My decision is based on who it is that's opposed to him, and to the lengths they go in that opposition: every media outlet, all of academia, career politicians from both parties, most major corporations, all the big tech billionaires .. it's a long list. To the positive, he's the first President since Bush Sr. who has reduced our overseas military footprint and the only one I've heard use the term "endless wars". He's angered the drug companies by taking steps to roll back their pricing practices where Americans pay multiples of most other nations, and while I scoffed the same way Obama did with the "magic wand" comment, I see his interest in trying to reverse de-industrialization as a worthy goal. My biggest negative is exactly what I expected out of him: he's a big debt guy, and he's only made that situation worse. He's a man of poor character and leaves much to be desired as an individual, no doubt, but as I've already said, the only difference I see between him and most other powerful people is his (often unselfconscious) candor. Trump isn't "crazy like a fox", he's just crazy. He's also lazy and shows little interest in the job - except for the power it wields, is intellectually stunted, surrounds himself with fawning sycophants, and has malignant personality and emotional disorders. He's also a psychological tormentor, repeating his lies until they become accepted, or until people throw their hands up in the air because they don't know what to be believe anymore. In short he's the most dangerous man in the world and we had all better hope for a free and fair election. I agree with some of your observations and criticisms, but disagree with some of your conclusions. Now, as reefs alluded to the maniac, and similar to how I did in my mini-debate with dusty, I could go into details about this, explain exactly what I disagree with and why, and back up my position with a set of links. But this forum isn't about politics, and it bears repeating that I've got no interest in changing your mind. I accept your opinion and outlook for what it is. We can do the detailed, fact-debate in private, if you'd like. One point that we can agree on is that Trump is a divisive figure. But to my eye he's a symptom, not a cause. My view of politics and power generally has been quite jaundiced since I was even a child. I've never trusted authority, and I've been profoundly and deeply critical of every President in my adult lifetime, including Regan. Most powerful people don't gain power by having good character, quite the opposite, and the way I've rationalized macro trends during that time is that the U.S.A. has been a victim of it's own past success: ever growing concentrations of wealth and power at an apex, an ever growing public debt, a bloated military adventuring overseas with little relation to the interests of the common US citizen, socialism for big corporations and special interest groups, with the most savage type of economic darwinism for everyone else.
To get specific, consider this: why is it an accepted norm that elected and higher-echelon non-elected Federal officials usually end up with a net worth a multiple of 10x-100x their income as a legislator or cabinet members or military brass or President? There is a cynical edge to American politics that's always been there, and is a product of public apathy.
It took decades to get to this point, and all of the personalities that led us here exhibit all of the qualities you're ascribing to Trump, it's just that some of them remained private, and other's were good at presenting an obfuscating facade. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 27, 2020 11:03:13 GMT -5
Can you link me to one of these groups that isn't currently politically and socially marginalized? I get the "dog whistle" thing, but even that, in and of itself, contradicts the notion that overtly racist thought is currently influential. we're only like 3 or 4 generations away from actual slavery, and only 1 or 2 generations away from seperate water fountains.. so its still on peoples minds... but also, black folks being stereotyped as lazy, living off the system, drugs, crime.. and immigrants being sterotyped as stealing jobs, voting illiegally, living off the system.. then the wars.. and all of the displacement of refugees.. and... "we don't want them here" is a very large voting block (regardless of party) and voting blocks are exploited |
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Post by laughter on Sept 27, 2020 11:08:30 GMT -5
I get involved in political discussion quite regularly, and in the end, without fail, I have to withdraw into a surrendered position, a 'non-dual perspective'....whatever words you want to use. This is part of our spiritual challenge, our spiritual growth. Quite honestly, everyone here...and everyone that's ever been here...shares more in common with each other here no matter what our apparent and occasional political leanings are,....... than we all do with most materialists, rationalists, 'unawakened'...whatever word you want to use. I am grateful for all the people I have met here over the years. For now, probably better to drop the discussion and remind ourselves what truly matters, and what is maya. I think you are right about the common denominator. Some say it's almost a bit like a spiritual family that has gathered here. It's a pity what happened with the forum split and such. But I think at the time it was probably the best option. But I think circumstances have significantly changed now. Maybe it's time for a family reunion. What do you guys think? Let me know. Maybe we can do a vote.  |
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