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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:03:52 GMT -5
In a way, that’s why you’re drawn to these discussions. But yeah, the pointers and facts of the matter do apparently upset you. The interactions provide indications of certain illusions you hold tightly, while others seem to betray a certain confusion both on what is is being said and what you think you understand. Being that you kinda start digging in and/or lashing out, the conversations tend to stop there or head off into an arching circle with a likely return to where it began, the same there. What a load of speculative rubbish mate .. Sorry butt you are miles off base lol .. How odd .. Yes, it was an observation based on the misunderstandings you have continuously expressed since you started posting here. Nothing more. I stand by it until you can show anything to the contrary. |
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 15:06:06 GMT -5
What a load of speculative rubbish mate .. Sorry butt you are miles off base lol .. How odd .. Yes, it was an observation based on the misunderstandings you have continuously expressed since you started posting here. Nothing more. I stand by it until you can show anything to the contrary. The misunderstandings are with you . I haven't speculated in the way you have . You are welcome to back up you claim if you wish otherwise it's pure speculation and it's in very poor taste . . Your last comment in reply to a post of mine was peace and you left my thoughts unanswered . Then you interject on my post with another in a manner that doesn't express the peace you supposedly expressed . Not a genuine expression . |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:11:25 GMT -5
yes, the problem with neti neti is that it perpetuates the duality of not/are, which are both 'mindful' categories Yep .. Nope, neti neti is not what perpetuates ignorance. Try again. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:14:16 GMT -5
Yes, it was an observation based on the misunderstandings you have continuously expressed since you started posting here. Nothing more. I stand by it until you can show anything to the contrary. The misunderstandings are with you . I haven't speculated in the way you have . You are welcome to back up you claim if you wish otherwise it's pure speculation and it's in very poor taste . . Your last comment in reply to a post of mine was peace and you left my thoughts unanswered . Then you interject on my post with another in a manner that doesn't express the peace you supposedly expressed . Not a genuine expression . So, you prefer not being challenged and left to your own unanswered thoughts. Okie dokie. Peace. 🖐 |
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 15:15:20 GMT -5
Nope, neti neti is not what perpetuates ignorance. Try again. Your here for a fight just like you was with Andy a while back without provocation so deal with it and own it . My agreement with Andy was based upon the duality of what we are and what we are not . If you are going to carry on with your speculative and untrue accusations I will ask you politely not to do so . Can you do that? then you can brush that chip off your shoulder . |
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 15:17:02 GMT -5
The misunderstandings are with you . I haven't speculated in the way you have . You are welcome to back up you claim if you wish otherwise it's pure speculation and it's in very poor taste . . Your last comment in reply to a post of mine was peace and you left my thoughts unanswered . Then you interject on my post with another in a manner that doesn't express the peace you supposedly expressed . Not a genuine expression . So, you prefer not being challenged and left to your own unanswered thoughts. Okie dokie. Peace. 🖐 Not at all dear fellow, there is a difference however to being challenged and having a discussion about what has been presented and there being speculative rumours made that are in poor taste . Provide the facts or refrain from your distasteful expression . |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:24:02 GMT -5
Nope, neti neti is not what perpetuates ignorance. Try again. Your here for a fight just like you was with Andy a while back without provocation so deal with it and own it . My agreement with Andy was based upon the duality of what we are and what we are not . If you are going to carry on with your speculative and untrue accusations I will ask you politely not to do so . Can you do that? then you can brush that chip off your shoulder . Yes, this is exactly what was expected and why I wrote my observation to you. As you see, it was not an accusation, but an observation. You're missing the point and this taking it all very personally, again. It is indicative of an attachment to your speculative ideas, which give rise to the thoughts, which give rise to the questions that would imply you want an answer to. That's kind of what this board is all about. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:27:51 GMT -5
So, you prefer not being challenged and left to your own unanswered thoughts. Okie dokie. Peace. 🖐 Not at all dear fellow, there is a difference however to being challenged and having a discussion about what has been presented and there being speculative rumours made that are in poor taste . Provide the facts or refrain from your distasteful expression . The body of what you have written is what I provide to you as evidence (or "facts" as you seem to be assuming they are). Be aware that your condescension is showing how you really feel.  |
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 15:28:21 GMT -5
Your here for a fight just like you was with Andy a while back without provocation so deal with it and own it . My agreement with Andy was based upon the duality of what we are and what we are not . If you are going to carry on with your speculative and untrue accusations I will ask you politely not to do so . Can you do that? then you can brush that chip off your shoulder . Yes, this is exactly what was expected and why I wrote my observation to you. As you see, it was not an accusation, but an observation. You're missing the point and this taking it all very personally, again. It is indicative of an attachment to your speculative ideas, which give rise to the thoughts, which give rise to the questions that would imply you want an answer to. That's kind of what this board is all about. Lol what are you on about man, you speak down to me based upon your speculations that are unsavoury without any foundation other than your biased perception . Back up your speculation with actual facts, otherwise your just giving out a bad smell . |
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 15:31:13 GMT -5
Not at all dear fellow, there is a difference however to being challenged and having a discussion about what has been presented and there being speculative rumours made that are in poor taste . Provide the facts or refrain from your distasteful expression . The body of what you have written is what I provide to you as evidence (or "facts" as you seem to be assuming they are). Be aware that your condescension is showing how you really feel. Makes no sense to me, just explain to me how what I have said has warranted your unsavoury remarks / comments . There is nothing here other than your speculations and your accusations . Back it up or please refrain from further speculations and accusations . I am in my right here to ask you to back up what you claim . |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 15:45:18 GMT -5
The body of what you have written is what I provide to you as evidence (or "facts" as you seem to be assuming they are). Be aware that your condescension is showing how you really feel. Makes no sense to me, just explain to me how what I have said has warranted your unsavoury remarks / comments . There is nothing here other than your speculations and your accusations . Back it up or please refrain from further speculations and accusations . I am in my right here to ask you to back up what you claim . OK, here's an example. You persist to exhibit any understanding or insight of what things like "no people", "no things", or "no other" points to based on things physically appearing to you. It indicates you don't understand what it points to that is prior to mind. You then claim to have transcended self whilst saying awareness of self must be present for yada yada, and on and on it goes. Things like this. And don't worry, man. I loves ya just the same! |
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2019 16:14:13 GMT -5
It's like the duck-bunny:  What's helpful is lopez' and other's idea of "conscious" vs. "unconscious". It's possible for thought-free action to be done in crystal clarity, completely conscious, and yet, absolutely free of any self-referential thought or emotion, and as ZD says, with zero internal dialog. Yes, I acknowledge that "thought-free action" can also evoke the notion of what you allude to with the headless chicken metaphor. It's a headless duckbunny.  Some peeps drunk out of their minds don't remember much about anything regarding how they got home, some might suggest that they had transcended mind and the mind-body has the intelligence to navigate through the on coming traffic, jump over fences, have a fight with a group of skinheads and eat a takeaway and put their PJ's on before bed . You see the mind-body cannot functions in these ways without the spirit being present .. when the spirit leaves the body permanently the mind-body dies so to speak, this is why you don't have the walking dead as a reality even though some entertain the theory that there are potential non perceiving zombies out there .. If the spirit is present and there is awareness of the world then there is a thought of it, whether one remembers it or not is irrelevant . To be fighting skinheads and eating kebabs one has not transcended mind .. The mind-body doesn't know kung fu and doesn't know how to put the microwave on .. All these patterns of behaviour and conditioning and intelligence won't help anyone once the spirit has left the body .. If there is transcendence there is no awareness of the world or the mind-body .. The mind-body doesn't carry on fighting or separating the chilli sauce off from the chips .. Life involves cognition, this is true. But there is a layer of it that's not necessary, and as Tolle points out, for many people that unnecessary layer of cognitive process takes on a dynamic all of it's own. This is the function of mind that discerns risk and opportunity, and that builds mental maps based on abstraction. Many people don't even notice that they're doing this, almost constantly. What can come as a surprise, is that it's not only possible to move through the world, in action, without this ongoing layter of cognition (much of it happening subconsciously), but that the effectiveness of our action is actually enhanced when that faculty is only called on when necessary. This is what Tolle means by mind as servant, rather than master, and it's what I take ZD and many others who post and have posted here over the years to mean (at the very least, in part) by a silent mind, and it's what I meant by action, free of thought. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2019 16:23:00 GMT -5
How can you be aware of another without there being the thought of another . There is so much confusion had here regarding what is a thought and what thinking is . I can have thought of my sister without thinking about how she might be feeling or what she is doing . You can't acknowledge or register the awareness of something without having a thought of something . Awareness and thought in a mindful environment cannot be separated . The mind facilitates I AM awareness . This is reflected in a thought of I AM . A thought is not a sensation. A thought is a word spoken "in your head." There can be Awarness without Awareness of separately existing phenomenon. If no words (thoughts) arise, there is unity; no separation. Even without sensations this applies, but it's difficult to grasp Being without a world. Penetrating emptiness via meditation is a helpful catalyst toward clarity on the issue.  |
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2019 16:32:26 GMT -5
sort of what i meant, yes. 'not that', 'not that'.... It still starts from the assumption of an 'I' that is 'not that'. It's still duality. That's not to say that it's useless. , but I assumed it referred to the search for God/Truth. The search began and was maintained with the unconscious belief/illusion that “I”, the searcher, was separate from God. Or, “I” needed to search for Truth, because of “my” ignorance of it. As such, Realization dispels such ignorance and illusions which, of course does appear to require quite a bit of effort, as the very definition of any search would assume. But any such search is, was, and always will be indicative of the illusion at play, so neti neti might be employed to discourage certain actions or beliefs the mind has come up with to say that search is necessary. In other contexts, depending on the perceived “place” an apparently deluded appearance might seem to be, one might say, “Why not?!” And on and on the dream goes.... Yes, me too, I didn't know about the Upanishads, but I can see how trying to ritualize and systematize the process would work at cross-purposes to the original intent. Science embodies a sort of neti-neti, done collectively, with attention directed outward. This is, as satch pointed out, done on the level of intellect, but personally, I see potential in starting there. The process that happens near the end, with the head in the tiger's mouth, is directed primarily, and in all events at least to some degree inward, and what is being "neti'd" are various artifacts of limiting distinction. It's actually a process of opening, and surrender, not rejection. |
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2019 16:32:55 GMT -5
yes, the problem with neti neti is that it perpetuates the duality of not/are, which are both 'mindful' categories Ramana was not a fan of neti neti to the extent it was simply thinking a set of intellectual conclusions, which is never enough, no matter how correct those conclusions may be. People would simply rehearse the Upanishadic neti-neti ideas as if that was enough. What really has to happen is that the mind must still itself and look inward... Interesting, good to know. Makes sense, and, thanks. |
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