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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:09:32 GMT -5
If they are the same, in other words, two words which have the same meaning, then I prefer to use only one word and that is appearance. How come two words creation and perception have the same meaning in English? Both have different meaning. But here he meant to say what's appearing is being created so both are same. I'm saying that creation consists of nothing more than present moment perception.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:14:41 GMT -5
What you are perceiving is creation because it is being created. What I know is that something appears. If you want to call that creation then who am I to argue with you. I don't know what creation means, but I do know when something appears. I cannot say how it appears or why it appears. It just appears and then disappears. The word 'creation' is being used as a concession to mind's stories about how stuff appears.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 1, 2019 11:17:02 GMT -5
Okay, then I will allow you to answer me
You said
Then you asked me the question
What's the answer to your question then?
Your position is that awareness is a witness/perceiver because there will always be an object for awareness to perceive. That's not true. I say that awareness can just experience itself without an object. So if it's not perceiving anything then what is it?
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:18:50 GMT -5
So this Mr.Nothing is the creator? Tell me whether Nothingness is the awareness? Or Nothingness is different from awareness? If it's different then perception is coming from nothingness and arriving at your awareness? Very bad logic,eh? Logic has no part to play here. Logic is just for the mind. Yes, at some point logic will fail magnificently.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 1, 2019 11:19:10 GMT -5
What I know is that something appears. If you want to call that creation then who am I to argue with you. I don't know what creation means, but I do know when something appears. I cannot say how it appears or why it appears. It just appears and then disappears. The word 'creation' is being used as a concession to mind's stories about how stuff appears. That's what I understood, but I don't know if gopal will agree with that. He wants more.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:25:00 GMT -5
How come two words creation and perception have the same meaning in English? Both have different meaning. But here he meant to say what's appearing is being created so both are same. I'm saying that creation consists of nothing more than present moment perception. yes, I know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:27:44 GMT -5
This is true in one sense! But let's dive bit deeply here.
Are you creating your perception or perceiving your perception? You are perfectly perceiving what's arising or you are in a passive witnessing mode, that's what you say you are the not doer,no?
If you are creating then you must be having freewill to certain sense,eh?
Both. That's what 'creation and perception are the same' means. What's the difference between perceiving what's arising, and passively witnessing? FWIW, the passive witness is a contrived mental state. There isn't really a passive witness. Creation does not imply free will. Free will implies mental activity, and the language of God is feeling.
Nope. Perception is Creation, no doubt. But you are only perceiving, you are not creating, eh? That's the reason Satch is not agreeing here. He clearly knows that he is not creating that perception. That's the reason he is giving any strong statement there.
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Post by roydop on Dec 1, 2019 11:28:59 GMT -5
I'm posting this again: You're all right, from different perspectives. Creation is the process of Awareness coming back onto itself. It's the only way because that's what has to happen when there's fundamentally only a singularity. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS8v6jKPP68Something from nothing (potential becoming manifest of it's own accord).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:31:37 GMT -5
Okay, then I will allow you to answer me
You said
Then you asked me the question
What's the answer to your question then?
Your position is that awareness is a witness/perceiver because there will always be an object for awareness to perceive. That's not true. I say that awareness can just experience itself without an object. So if it's not perceiving anything then what is it? What? you also agreed that Awareness as a witness is perceiving. If so, what is the other kind of mode it's entering while it is experiencing itself ? If it can sense something, then there is perception.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:33:18 GMT -5
I'm posting this again: You're all right, from different perspectives. Creation is the process of Awareness coming back onto itself. It's the only way because that's what has to happen when there's fundamentally only a singularity. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS8v6jKPP68Something from nothing (potential becoming manifest of it's own accord). Creation is perception, everybody here agrees that .But the problem is, everybody here knows that we are only witnessing the perception but the question comes while there is no outer world exist in itself, how does the same awareness creates that perception while it's perceiving.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 11:34:00 GMT -5
Catch you all tomorrow, Time for me to sleep!
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:38:29 GMT -5
Logic has no part to play here. Logic is just for the mind. I am just confirming whether you believe that way. I am just confirming whether you believe that way?
Because you said you are not a doer, you can't agree with me now that awareness is the creator, If awareness is not the creator , then who is creating the perception in your awareness? You know nothing exist other awareness, eh?
The person is literally an expression of limitation. Not an entity, not a doer, but it is an expression of Awareness, which is also not a doer or an entity.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:42:23 GMT -5
Recently appeared was created already. But what's appearing is being created and that's the creation. How can you be certain of that? Nothing was 'recently created', as creation is always now. Time is one of those creations.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 11:44:17 GMT -5
So that means you are the doer? You have the freedom to create whatever perception you want? I thought you asked how is perception happening. It's happening because I am. He asked what is creating your perception.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 1, 2019 11:45:37 GMT -5
Your position is that awareness is a witness/perceiver because there will always be an object for awareness to perceive. That's not true. I say that awareness can just experience itself without an object. So if it's not perceiving anything then what is it? What? you also agreed that Awareness as a witness is perceiving. If so, what is the other kind of mode it's entering while it is experiencing itself ? If it can sense something, then there is perception. I presented it as a hypothesis by saying let us assume.... You can call awareness whatever you want but I'm just trying to examine the logic since you are so keen on using logic yourself. We speak of perceiving an object, but awareness is not an object and if it experience itself as the ultimate subject can we call that perceiving? Is pure knowingness perceiving? Moreover if objects are just appearances in awareness, or awareness appearing as form, these objects are therefore no different to awareness so is there really any perceiving happening by anyone or anything or not thing?
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