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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 22:48:56 GMT -5
FWIW, I've heard ND teachers tell seekers that it's impossible to stop thoughts from occurring. I always get a laugh when I hear that statement because it is definitely not true. It's not important either way because people can wake up regardless of the degree of internal speech, but the claim that no one can stop the arising of thoughts is false. THIS can do whatever it chooses to do via a particular body/mind. Yes I agree. If I choose to, I can completely stop thinking for as long as I want. (without any effort). Not a single thought will arise. What I cannot tell you is who, how or why stops the thinking and starts it again.This is one of the fantastic question. Consciousness is witnessing the movement of thoughts/Perceptions. This consciousness is also inseparable from what's being perceived, If so, who is creating the movement of thoughts? Ask this question to yourself. Answer might surprise you!
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 28, 2019 22:52:41 GMT -5
Yes I agree. If I choose to, I can completely stop thinking for as long as I want. (without any effort). Not a single thought will arise. What I cannot tell you is who, how or why stops the thinking and starts it again.This is one of the fantastic question. Consciousness is witnessing the movement of thoughts/Perceptions. This consciousness is also inseparable from what's being perceived, If so, who is creating the movement of thoughts? Ask this question to yourself. Answer might surprise you! There is no answer, because any answer will be a concept manufactured by mind and everything which appears in mind also disappears. Even my question was misconceived.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 0:34:50 GMT -5
This is one of the fantastic question. Consciousness is witnessing the movement of thoughts/Perceptions. This consciousness is also inseparable from what's being perceived, If so, who is creating the movement of thoughts? Ask this question to yourself. Answer might surprise you! There is no answer, because any answer will be a concept manufactured by mind and everything which appears in mind also disappears. Even my question was misconceived. You are perceiving the change or change of thoughts or change of perception, you are sure, right?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 0:39:59 GMT -5
There is no answer, because any answer will be a concept manufactured by mind and everything which appears in mind also disappears. Even my question was misconceived. You are perceiving the change or change of thoughts or change of perception, you are sure, right? Yes, I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing, but who is saying that I am the unchanging witness? I am. Who am I? .......... Silence!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:13:23 GMT -5
You are perceiving the change or change of thoughts or change of perception, you are sure, right? Yes, I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing, but who is saying that I am the unchanging witness? I am. Who am I? .......... Silence! There is no unchanging background and against which something else is changing, this is wrong. But it looks like that because it seems like there are two separate thing is play,that is, one is observing and another one is being observed, but bit more careful observation would reveal something else.
This so called KNOWING is happening in awareness, do you see that? Awareness is not the looker, KNOWING is actually inseparable from awareness, knowing is the process which takes places in your awareness, do you see that? For the sake of making you understand I keep this awareness as static entity.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:16:47 GMT -5
You are perceiving the change or change of thoughts or change of perception, you are sure, right? Yes, I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing, but who is saying that I am the unchanging witness? I am. Who am I? .......... Silence! Now I am getting to your point of contention.
So who is seeing this changing thoughts? You say now it's unchanging awareness,right. What is this seeing? Is it a kind of looking at the thoughts? If you think so, I am very sorry to say that you are wrong. There is no 'looking at' something is happening here because knowing is inseparable from awareness or it's happening IN awareness. If it's happening in awareness, then who is creating the thoughts while your awareness is sitting in the seat of passive witness?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 4:30:57 GMT -5
Yes, I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing, but who is saying that I am the unchanging witness? I am. Who am I? .......... Silence! There is no unchanging background and against which something else is changing, this is wrong. But it looks like that because it seems like there are two separate thing is play,that is, one is observing and another one is being observed, but bit more careful observation would reveal something else.
This so called KNOWING is happening in awareness, do you see that? Awareness is not the looker, KNOWING is actually inseparable from awareness, knowing is the process which takes places in your awareness, do you see that? For the sake of making you understand I keep this awareness as static entity.
Yes you are correct. Knowing is not separate from awareness. So why do you think it is that I can say I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 4:37:13 GMT -5
Yes, I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing, but who is saying that I am the unchanging witness? I am. Who am I? .......... Silence! Now I am getting to your point of contention.
So who is seeing this changing thoughts? You say now it's unchanging awareness,right. What is this seeing? Is it a kind of looking at the thoughts? If you think so, I am very sorry to say that you are wrong. There is no 'looking at' something is happening here because knowing is inseparable from awareness or it's happening IN awareness. If it's happening in awareness, then who is creating the thoughts while your awareness is sitting in the seat of passive witness?
Who?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:38:07 GMT -5
There is no unchanging background and against which something else is changing, this is wrong. But it looks like that because it seems like there are two separate thing is play,that is, one is observing and another one is being observed, but bit more careful observation would reveal something else.
This so called KNOWING is happening in awareness, do you see that? Awareness is not the looker, KNOWING is actually inseparable from awareness, knowing is the process which takes places in your awareness, do you see that? For the sake of making you understand I keep this awareness as static entity.
Yes you are correct. Knowing is not separate from awareness. So why do you think it is that I can say I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing? Okay, right. Let's go step by step
So this knowing is not separate from awareness, While this knowing or perception is not separate from awareness, who is creating this perception? Who is the creator of this knowing?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 4:39:59 GMT -5
There is no unchanging background and against which something else is changing, this is wrong. But it looks like that because it seems like there are two separate thing is play,that is, one is observing and another one is being observed, but bit more careful observation would reveal something else. This is interesting. If in reality there is no unchanging background then why would it look like there is?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 4:40:47 GMT -5
Yes you are correct. Knowing is not separate from awareness. So why do you think it is that I can say I am the unchanging witness of that which is changing? Okay, right. Let's go step by step
So this knowing is not separate from awareness, While this knowing or perception is not separate from awareness, who is creating this perception? Who is the creator of this knowing?
I don't know. Tell me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:49:13 GMT -5
There is no unchanging background and against which something else is changing, this is wrong. But it looks like that because it seems like there are two separate thing is play,that is, one is observing and another one is being observed, but bit more careful observation would reveal something else. This is interesting. If in reality there is no unchanging background then why would it look like there is? Yeah, that's what I am asking, what is creating your perception while you are observing?
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Post by satchitananda on Nov 29, 2019 4:50:33 GMT -5
This is interesting. If in reality there is no unchanging background then why would it look like there is? Yeah, that's what I am asking, what is creating your perception while you are observing? I have no idea. All I know is that I am.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:53:29 GMT -5
Okay, right. Let's go step by step
So this knowing is not separate from awareness, While this knowing or perception is not separate from awareness, who is creating this perception? Who is the creator of this knowing?
I don't know. Tell me. Please try! You as Awareness is observing and also you made it clear that this knowing is inseparable from awareness, If so who is creating? Awareness?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 4:56:56 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I am asking, what is creating your perception while you are observing? I have no idea. All I know is that I am. Why you have no idea? How come? You said that you are not the doer. You are observing as a passive witness. Right? So who is creating this movement of knowing/Perceiving in your awareness?
You know nothing else exist in the world other than awareness, If so, who can create that perception other than awareness? eh?
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