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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 12:10:11 GMT -5
I thought you asked how is perception happening. It's happening because I am. He asked what is creating your perception. Do you need to tell him again that perception and creation are the same, or shall I do it this time?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 12:28:03 GMT -5
He asked what is creating your perception. Do you need to tell him again that perception and creation are the same, or shall I do it this time? Creation is perception. Every perception is new creation.But you are only perceiving the perception you are not creating it. You have absolutely no control over whats arising. That's what Watch says he is not the doer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 12:33:31 GMT -5
Do you need to tell him again that perception and creation are the same, or shall I do it this time? Creation is perception. Every perception is new creation.But you are only perceiving the perception you are not creating it. You have absolutely no control over what's arising. That's what Satch says he is not the doer. Just keep breathing man.
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Post by roydop on Dec 1, 2019 14:43:23 GMT -5
I'm posting this again: You're all right, from different perspectives. Creation is the process of Awareness coming back onto itself. It's the only way because that's what has to happen when there's fundamentally only a singularity. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS8v6jKPP68Something from nothing (potential becoming manifest of it's own accord). Creation is perception, everybody here agrees that .But the problem is, everybody here knows that we are only witnessing the perception but the question comes while there is no outer world exist in itself, how does the same awareness creates that perception while it's perceiving. The video analogy is exact. There can be no more accurate understanding.
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Post by tenka on Dec 1, 2019 14:49:22 GMT -5
I don’t prescribe to the creation equals perception premise as you do so I don’t have any confusion in this regard. What we are perceives the creation of the earth plane via the creation of a physical mind body that entertains the senses as part of it’s creation. I have always rejected that perceiving the moon as an example is also creating the moon at the same time, it’s not something that is Truthy nor is it realised .. So all we have here is a theory that has been created as a foundation that makes no sense to me and becomes problematic in ways that you are experiencing. Sure.You are right here that you should not be having this problem when you believe in objective reality. This problem is for the people those who believe that universe exist only in perception.
Yes, exactly.
Well you might want to investigate why such a theory doesn't create confusion .. and adds up under scrutiny .
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 19:09:34 GMT -5
No, people have all sorts of different ideas about their sense of identity. A rejection of the notion of free will isn't all that uncommon, historically speaking, and nowadays there are plenty of children who are being taught they are individuated parts of an infinite, interconnected whole, something like "spirit, in temporary human form". Those children are in the exact same boat as the ones being conditioned into SVP's. Nah. There's less of a bridge to cross You: there is no bridge Me: There is and there isn't You: ::insert gif:: (just trying to save us some time ) But I wanna see the gif that he would have inserted.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 19:42:47 GMT -5
You clearly stated that you don't know whether awareness is the creator of those perceptions which you are perceiving, what does that mean? You don't know whether you are a doer. Correct? Awareness is not the creator because awareness is not a doer. If you think you are the limited personal self then you are the doer. If you know that you are Awareness then you are not the doer. What you think you are is irrelevant in terms of what you actually are.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 19:48:39 GMT -5
No. I am is an object in Awareness, but at the same time it is no different to awareness. So some kind of object which is arising in awareness is perceiving? A point of perception. (Not an object or entity)
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 19:58:13 GMT -5
In terms of perceiving/being aware...no, because if I was 'infinite beingness', then I would be perceiving/aware of 'everything'. I'm not even perceiving/aware of what I was perceiving/aware of 2 moments ago. What backs up your claim? what kind of Infinite being you know before that was perceiving everything together? Infinite Being, by definition, has no boundaries on perception, which is clearly happening. The problem is a result of manipulating our own concepts as though they are ultimately true. 'Infinite Being" is being used to point to one aspect of 'THIS' and creation/perception is being used to point to another aspect. Forcing them to refer to the same 'thing' is going to lead to problems.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 20:01:14 GMT -5
In terms of perceiving/being aware...no, because if I was 'infinite beingness', then I would be perceiving/aware of 'everything'. I'm not even perceiving/aware of what I was perceiving/aware of 2 moments ago. So you don't know such thing to be true, If you don't know then it's a speculation.
Case Closed.
It's a logical conclusion, which at this level of conceptualization, is appropriate.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 20:04:27 GMT -5
You're all right, from different perspectives. Creation is the process of Awareness coming back onto itself. It's the only way because that's what has to happen when there's fundamentally only a singularity. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS8v6jKPP68Something from nothing (potential becoming manifest of it's own accord). It's not the only way. There is no 'something'. The something is assumed.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 20:19:05 GMT -5
There's never nothing happening.. What about when you're in dreamless sleep? There's nothing happening.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 20:22:05 GMT -5
The transcendent can only be realized. Abiding in transcendental consciousness is not realization. It is easily experienced by a novice meditator. I didn't mean to say anything about abiding in transcendental consciousness as a meditative experience. Talking about realization.
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Post by enigma on Dec 1, 2019 20:30:33 GMT -5
What about when you're in dreamless sleep? What happens to the witness in dreamless sleep is Enigma's speciality, not mine. You know from your own experience that dreamless sleep is absent experience. (nothing happening)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 22:17:32 GMT -5
I am just confirming whether you believe that way. I am just confirming whether you believe that way?
Because you said you are not a doer, you can't agree with me now that awareness is the creator, If awareness is not the creator , then who is creating the perception in your awareness? You know nothing exist other awareness, eh?
The person is literally an expression of limitation. Not an entity, not a doer, but it is an expression of Awareness, which is also not a doer or an entity. What this explanation has to do with what I have written ?
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