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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 1:46:30 GMT -5
Hedderman describes being run over twice by a car, when he was drunk. His take is that during the really traumatic moments peace comes over you That comment from Hedderman caught my eye. Very true except that if you are established in being, if your permanent state is sahaja samadhi then there is always peace. It's just that the peace becomes very noticeable if it is in contrast to something traumatic that is happening. I can think of two occasions. The first was when my wife's sister was in the throes of a cranial embolism. After uncontrollable fits her body became completely lifeless and I thought she had died in my arms. I was completely calm, absolutely serene, while her husband and my wife were going nuts. I remember noticing the absolute stillness in that moment while noticing the panic around me. I casually felt to see if I could find a pulse. She suddenly reanimated, and we followed an ambulance with flashing lights in a mad dash to the hospital emergency room. Happily she survived without any debilitating effects at all. The second occasion is when I fell off my motorbike after rather stupidly putting on the brakes too hard to avoid someone. There again there was what I can only describe as a cocoon of Peace around me. I only had minor injuries and a couple of passers by helped me up. I was very near to home so I went home and cleaned up my wounds and then drove to the nearby clinic where I needed to get some stitches for one of the wounds. The whole thing seem to happen in a dream. I was in it but I was just witnessing it. Both instances I describe were traumatic but without the personal trauma. The peace I felt was like an airbag inflating to prevent collision with the steering wheel. The feel that "you are feeling calm in the midst of traumatic events" is actually created by you to give the feel that you remain clam while in the midst of trouble. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 2:00:54 GMT -5
That comment from Hedderman caught my eye. Very true except that if you are established in being, if your permanent state is sahaja samadhi then there is always peace. It's just that the peace becomes very noticeable if it is in contrast to something traumatic that is happening. I can think of two occasions. The first was when my wife's sister was in the throes of a cranial embolism. After uncontrollable fits her body became completely lifeless and I thought she had died in my arms. I was completely calm, absolutely serene, while her husband and my wife were going nuts. I remember noticing the absolute stillness in that moment while noticing the panic around me. I casually felt to see if I could find a pulse. She suddenly reanimated, and we followed an ambulance with flashing lights in a mad dash to the hospital emergency room. Happily she survived without any debilitating effects at all. The second occasion is when I fell off my motorbike after rather stupidly putting on the brakes too hard to avoid someone. There again there was what I can only describe as a cocoon of Peace around me. I only had minor injuries and a couple of passers by helped me up. I was very near to home so I went home and cleaned up my wounds and then drove to the nearby clinic where I needed to get some stitches for one of the wounds. The whole thing seem to happen in a dream. I was in it but I was just witnessing it. Both instances I describe were traumatic but without the personal trauma. The peace I felt was like an airbag inflating to prevent collision with the steering wheel. The feel that "you are feeling calm in the midst of traumatic events" is actually created by you to give the feel that you remain clam while in the midst of trouble. Why didn't I create a feeling of panic instead, like the others around me did for themselves? |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 2, 2022 6:46:52 GMT -5
Hedderman describes being run over twice by a car, when he was drunk. His take is that during the really traumatic moments peace comes over you That comment from Hedderman caught my eye. Very true except that if you are established in being, if your permanent state is sahaja samadhi then there is always peace. It's just that the peace becomes very noticeable if it is in contrast to something traumatic that is happening. I can think of two occasions. The first was when my wife's sister was in the throes of a cranial embolism. After uncontrollable fits her body became completely lifeless and I thought she had died in my arms. I was completely calm, absolutely serene, while her husband and my wife were going nuts. I remember noticing the absolute stillness in that moment while noticing the panic around me. I casually felt to see if I could find a pulse. She suddenly reanimated, and we followed an ambulance with flashing lights in a mad dash to the hospital emergency room. Happily she survived without any debilitating effects at all. The second occasion is when I fell off my motorbike after rather stupidly putting on the brakes too hard to avoid someone. There again there was what I can only describe as a cocoon of Peace around me. I only had minor injuries and a couple of passers by helped me up. I was very near to home so I went home and cleaned up my wounds and then drove to the nearby clinic where I needed to get some stitches for one of the wounds. The whole thing seem to happen in a dream. I was in it but I was just witnessing it. Both instances I describe were traumatic but without the personal trauma. The peace I felt was like an airbag inflating to prevent collision with the steering wheel. The difference being that it was not happening to them, the panicked. Having had a couple of brushes with death, there comes a time when you are completely at peace. Gopal thinks this is a temporary state, but others say this is the default state, who we are when the veil of illusion is removed. My experience leads me to side with the latter view. |
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 2, 2022 14:57:38 GMT -5
There is something to this. Something which ties in with some of the other stuff we've been talking about recently (okay mostly me). But it seems to me that the story he tells about the guy at the end is very similar to the way ZD has talked about ATA-T in the past. It ties in with the spontaneity aspect of ATA-T. It's like, the more present you are the more effortlessly it all unfolds, no doubt about that. And you often find a sort of 'synchronicity' in events, similar to the way he talked about the vid with the swimming pool contractor etc. Things present themselves with greater fluidity. I'm just not convinced you can safely live your life like that. That it's foolproof as it were. Zd seems to be more so than I. And I would certainly tend to talk about some things differently than he does in the video. For example, early on when he talks about "a state where people don't have a mind", and "losing your capacity to think, choose and decide". . Definitely something interesting there though. What he had to say also reminded me of when sree was talking about the old folks who lost their home in the storm and was trying to fathom how TPTPAU would help them. It occurred to me at the time that as well as the detachment that would inevitably come from having realised TPTPAU, there is something else to be said. Something along the lines that, it's also the case that somehow it's less likely that someone who had realised TPTPAU would actually find themselves in that sort of situation anyway. It's a bold statement because it's really hard to quantify, or even just to outline. But I sense that it ties in with such notions as LOA, alignment, and kamma. This …spontaneity, ties in with that stuff. Unfortunately I don't have time to get too far into it right now, (and I'm still trying to make sense of it myself anyway). Yes. Zd describes his life pretty much like that. Hedderman describes being run over twice by a car, when he was drunk. His take is that during the really traumatic moments peace comes over you. I can't imagine every single enlightened soul -- I use that term with caution -- has been able to dodge war, torture, mayhem or sree.😁I'm quite sure you're right. But also, as I say. That someone who had realised TPTPAU, or is operating in an 'ATA-T like' state, is somehow less likely to encounter such tribulation. Which begs the question, if so, how could that be the case. Well, It's hard to say whether it is that the state itself somehow effects the way experientiality unfolds., i.e that the more present/spontaneous (the closer to source) the unfolding experientiality is, the 'better quality' it somehow is. I have to say it seems like this. Or alternatively. Whether, probabilistically speaking, experientiality ripe for the realisation of the state, is already in greater alignment than that which tends 'to produce encounterment with' … tribulation. Possibly somewhere between the two. I'm just spit-balling there really, so I don't know if it makes much sense to anyone. Certainly in terms of kamma, we'd be talking about something both extremely broad-ranging and intricate. In the biggest picture kamma would condition both the place and circumstance of birth. Which means one might be born into an area that is subject to lesser or greater tribulation anyway. Perhaps depending of the quality of the kamma. And interestingly this situation could well be said to correlate with the ripeness I alluded to previously. (This may be the same in terms of LOA/alignment, but it's more Reefs' area of expertise). But also. In the normal course of life, in terms of kamma as merely action, obviously decisions taken effect circumstance/experientiality too. What I mean is that quite objectively speaking, if one takes the decision to drive their mobile home to Kansas is the middle of the tornado season, the probability of tribulation rises. Most likely regardless of the state within which one is operating. However, it makes sense that someone who is operating consciously and conscientiously may better avoid tribulation and strife than someone who is operating largely unconsciously and impulsively, right. Yet all said and done, ultimately there is the potential for enlightenment, anywhere, NOW. So maybe it is just the probability that varies. |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 2, 2022 15:15:47 GMT -5
Yes. Zd describes his life pretty much like that. Hedderman describes being run over twice by a car, when he was drunk. His take is that during the really traumatic moments peace comes over you. I can't imagine every single enlightened soul -- I use that term with caution -- has been able to dodge war, torture, mayhem or sree.😁I'm quite sure you're right. But also, as I say. That someone who had realised TPTPAU, or is operating in an 'ATA-T like' state, is somehow less likely to encounter such tribulation. Which begs the question, if so, how could that be the case. Well, It's hard to say whether it is that the state itself somehow effects the way experientiality unfolds., i.e that the more present/spontaneous (the closer to source) the unfolding experientiality is, the 'better quality' it somehow is. I have to say it seems like this. Or alternatively. Whether, probabilistically speaking, experientiality ripe for the realisation of the state, is already in greater alignment than that which tends 'to produce encounterment with' … tribulation. Possibly somewhere between the two. I'm just spit-balling there really, so I don't know if it makes much sense to anyone. Certainly in terms of kamma, we'd be talking about something both extremely broad-ranging and intricate. In the biggest picture kamma would condition both the place and circumstance of birth. Which means one might be born into an area that is subject to lesser or greater tribulation anyway. Perhaps depending of the quality of the kamma. And interestingly this situation could well be said to correlate with the ripeness I alluded to previously. (This may be the same in terms of LOA/alignment, but it's more Reefs' area of expertise). But also. In the normal course of life, in terms of kamma as merely action, obviously decisions taken effect circumstance/experientiality too. What I mean is that quite objectively speaking, if one takes the decision to drive their mobile home to Kansas is the middle of the tornado season, the probability of tribulation rises. Most likely regardless of the state within which one is operating. However, it makes sense that someone who is operating consciously and conscientiously may better avoid tribulation and strife than someone who is operating largely unconsciously and impulsively, right. Yet all said and done, ultimately there is the potential for enlightenment, anywhere, NOW. So maybe it is just the probability that varies. Seems a connection between enlightenment and good fortune is mysteriously ambiguous. |
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 2, 2022 15:22:39 GMT -5
I'm quite sure you're right. But also, as I say. That someone who had realised TPTPAU, or is operating in an 'ATA-T like' state, is somehow less likely to encounter such tribulation. Which begs the question, if so, how could that be the case. Well, It's hard to say whether it is that the state itself somehow effects the way experientiality unfolds., i.e that the more present/spontaneous (the closer to source) the unfolding experientiality is, the 'better quality' it somehow is. I have to say it seems like this. Or alternatively. Whether, probabilistically speaking, experientiality ripe for the realisation of the state, is already in greater alignment than that which tends 'to produce encounterment with' … tribulation. Possibly somewhere between the two. I'm just spit-balling there really, so I don't know if it makes much sense to anyone. Certainly in terms of kamma, we'd be talking about something both extremely broad-ranging and intricate. In the biggest picture kamma would condition both the place and circumstance of birth. Which means one might be born into an area that is subject to lesser or greater tribulation anyway. Perhaps depending of the quality of the kamma. And interestingly this situation could well be said to correlate with the ripeness I alluded to previously. (This may be the same in terms of LOA/alignment, but it's more Reefs' area of expertise). But also. In the normal course of life, in terms of kamma as merely action, obviously decisions taken effect circumstance/experientiality too. What I mean is that quite objectively speaking, if one takes the decision to drive their mobile home to Kansas is the middle of the tornado season, the probability of tribulation rises. Most likely regardless of the state within which one is operating. However, it makes sense that someone who is operating consciously and conscientiously may better avoid tribulation and strife than someone who is operating largely unconsciously and impulsively, right. Yet all said and done, ultimately there is the potential for enlightenment, anywhere, NOW. So maybe it is just the probability that varies. Seems a connection between enlightenment and good fortune is mysteriously ambiguous. It's quite possible that better describes the limits of my current understanding of the situation. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 2, 2022 18:06:10 GMT -5
Here are some quick random thoughts on this subject. The biggest differences I see between the way most folks react to unexpected life events and those who have penetrated various cognitive illusions might be summarized as:
1. Acceptance of whatever is happening in the moment (no resistance)
2. An action oriented way of life rather than a reflective way of life ("just do it")
3. A recognition that there is no personal doer behind anything that is happening
4. A recognition that it is impossible to make a mistake of any kind (THIS does everything and THIS is non-dual, so it unfolds however it unfolds and any idea about an alternative unfolding is a ridiculous exercise in imagination)
5. An almost total focus upon whatever is happening in the present moment with very few, if any, thoughts about the past or future
6. A direct knowing that what one is is THIS (that everything is taken care of by the infinite intelligence of THIS)
7. A recognition of how thoughts typically keep one psychologically separated from the truth of "what is"
A traumatic event, such as a car wreck, is one of the few things that momentarily can free people from their conventional thinking habits and take them out of their heads. In less traumatic situations people often go a bit nuts when unexpected things happen, and I can identify with Satch's post regarding how he reacted when his wife's sister suffered a serious physical affliction. I've had exactly the same sorts of things happen, and in those cases I calmly did whatever was necessary as the people around me went crazy.
Today a friend wanted me to go fossil hunting and exploring graveyards containing "comb" graves. After we left in his truck, he began telling me how worried he was about some issue. I said with a grin, "Don't think about it." He laughed and said, "You say that all the time, but it's hard to stop thinking about something like this." I said, "Yes, at first it is, but it's just a bad habit. If you can break that habit by switching attention to whatever is happening in the present moment, you'll be a lot happier. Remember, there is never anything to worry about. Do whatever needs to be done, and then do the next thing that needs to be done." A few miles further, and he mentioned something else that was worrying him. I said, "Stop thinking about it." He said, "Well, I admit that I'm judgmental....." I interrupted him again and said, "If you can stop being judgmental, you'll be a lot happier." This sort of convo occurred all day as we drove on backroads, walked through graveyards, and hiked many miles up and down hills looking for a particular geological formation. By the end of the day, all I had to do when he made one of his comments about worrying or being fearful about something was simply point at him with a silent grin, and he would laugh. Later, he asked me if I ever worry about anything, and I told him never. He said, "If a civil war broke out, wouldn't you be worried?" I said, "No, if war came, I'd simply do whatever is necessary, and I'd continue to be at peace even in the midst of war."
Realizations and insights inform the mind, but they can also (1) change thinking patterns and (2) eliminate past thinking patterns.
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 2, 2022 20:50:34 GMT -5
Here are some quick random thoughts on this subject. The biggest differences I see between the way most folks react to unexpected life events and those who have penetrated various cognitive illusions might be summarized as: 1. Acceptance of whatever is happening in the moment (no resistance) 2. An action oriented way of life rather than a reflective way of life ("just do it") 3. A recognition that there is no personal doer behind anything that is happening 4. A recognition that it is impossible to make a mistake of any kind (THIS does everything and THIS is non-dual, so it unfolds however it unfolds and any idea about an alternative unfolding is a ridiculous exercise in imagination) 5. An almost total focus upon whatever is happening in the present moment with very few, if any, thoughts about the past or future 6. A direct knowing that what one is is THIS (that everything is taken care of by the infinite intelligence of THIS) 7. A recognition of how thoughts typically keep one psychologically separated from the truth of "what is" A traumatic event, such as a car wreck, is one of the few things that momentarily can free people from their conventional thinking habits and take them out of their heads. In less traumatic situations people often go a bit nuts when unexpected things happen, and I can identify with Satch's post regarding how he reacted when his wife's sister suffered a serious physical affliction. I've had exactly the same sorts of things happen, and in those cases I calmly did whatever was necessary as the people around me went crazy. Today a friend wanted me to go fossil hunting and exploring graveyards containing "comb" graves. After we left in his truck, he began telling me how worried he was about some issue. I said with a grin, "Don't think about it." He laughed and said, "You say that all the time, but it's hard to stop thinking about something like this." I said, "Yes, at first it is, but it's just a bad habit. If you can break that habit by switching attention to whatever is happening in the present moment, you'll be a lot happier. Remember, there is never anything to worry about. Do whatever needs to be done, and then do the next thing that needs to be done." A few miles further, and he mentioned something else that was worrying him. I said, "Stop thinking about it." He said, "Well, I admit that I'm judgmental....." I interrupted him again and said, "If you can stop being judgmental, you'll be a lot happier." This sort of convo occurred all day as we drove on backroads, walked through graveyards, and hiked many miles up and down hills looking for a particular geological formation. By the end of the day, all I had to do when he made one of his comments about worrying or being fearful about something was simply point at him with a silent grin, and he would laugh. Later, he asked me if I ever worry about anything, and I told him never. He said, "If a civil war broke out, wouldn't you be worried?" I said, "No, if war came, I'd simply do whatever is necessary, and I'd continue to be at peace even in the midst of war." Realizations and insights inform the mind, but they can also (1) change thinking patterns and (2) eliminate past thinking patterns. Was wondering about your take on Godman's video describing life after Self-realization. It's an interesting story that sounded an awful lot like how your life runs. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 3, 2022 8:11:45 GMT -5
Here are some quick random thoughts on this subject. The biggest differences I see between the way most folks react to unexpected life events and those who have penetrated various cognitive illusions might be summarized as: 1. Acceptance of whatever is happening in the moment (no resistance) 2. An action oriented way of life rather than a reflective way of life ("just do it") 3. A recognition that there is no personal doer behind anything that is happening 4. A recognition that it is impossible to make a mistake of any kind (THIS does everything and THIS is non-dual, so it unfolds however it unfolds and any idea about an alternative unfolding is a ridiculous exercise in imagination) 5. An almost total focus upon whatever is happening in the present moment with very few, if any, thoughts about the past or future 6. A direct knowing that what one is is THIS (that everything is taken care of by the infinite intelligence of THIS) 7. A recognition of how thoughts typically keep one psychologically separated from the truth of "what is" A traumatic event, such as a car wreck, is one of the few things that momentarily can free people from their conventional thinking habits and take them out of their heads. In less traumatic situations people often go a bit nuts when unexpected things happen, and I can identify with Satch's post regarding how he reacted when his wife's sister suffered a serious physical affliction. I've had exactly the same sorts of things happen, and in those cases I calmly did whatever was necessary as the people around me went crazy. Today a friend wanted me to go fossil hunting and exploring graveyards containing "comb" graves. After we left in his truck, he began telling me how worried he was about some issue. I said with a grin, "Don't think about it." He laughed and said, "You say that all the time, but it's hard to stop thinking about something like this." I said, "Yes, at first it is, but it's just a bad habit. If you can break that habit by switching attention to whatever is happening in the present moment, you'll be a lot happier. Remember, there is never anything to worry about. Do whatever needs to be done, and then do the next thing that needs to be done." A few miles further, and he mentioned something else that was worrying him. I said, "Stop thinking about it." He said, "Well, I admit that I'm judgmental....." I interrupted him again and said, "If you can stop being judgmental, you'll be a lot happier." This sort of convo occurred all day as we drove on backroads, walked through graveyards, and hiked many miles up and down hills looking for a particular geological formation. By the end of the day, all I had to do when he made one of his comments about worrying or being fearful about something was simply point at him with a silent grin, and he would laugh. Later, he asked me if I ever worry about anything, and I told him never. He said, "If a civil war broke out, wouldn't you be worried?" I said, "No, if war came, I'd simply do whatever is necessary, and I'd continue to be at peace even in the midst of war." Realizations and insights inform the mind, but they can also (1) change thinking patterns and (2) eliminate past thinking patterns. Was wondering about your take on Godman's video describing life after Self-realization. It's an interesting story that sounded an awful lot like how your life runs. Similar but not the same. Each human is uniquely different both before and after various realizations. The situation here is best described as "ordinary everyday life." Nothing unusual. |
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 3, 2022 8:51:22 GMT -5
Here are some quick random thoughts on this subject. The biggest differences I see between the way most folks react to unexpected life events and those who have penetrated various cognitive illusions might be summarized as: 1. Acceptance of whatever is happening in the moment (no resistance) 2. An action oriented way of life rather than a reflective way of life ("just do it") 3. A recognition that there is no personal doer behind anything that is happening 4. A recognition that it is impossible to make a mistake of any kind (THIS does everything and THIS is non-dual, so it unfolds however it unfolds and any idea about an alternative unfolding is a ridiculous exercise in imagination)5. An almost total focus upon whatever is happening in the present moment with very few, if any, thoughts about the past or future 6. A direct knowing that what one is is THIS (that everything is taken care of by the infinite intelligence of THIS) 7. A recognition of how thoughts typically keep one psychologically separated from the truth of "what is" A traumatic event, such as a car wreck, is one of the few things that momentarily can free people from their conventional thinking habits and take them out of their heads. In less traumatic situations people often go a bit nuts when unexpected things happen, and I can identify with Satch's post regarding how he reacted when his wife's sister suffered a serious physical affliction. I've had exactly the same sorts of things happen, and in those cases I calmly did whatever was necessary as the people around me went crazy. Today a friend wanted me to go fossil hunting and exploring graveyards containing "comb" graves. After we left in his truck, he began telling me how worried he was about some issue. I said with a grin, "Don't think about it." He laughed and said, "You say that all the time, but it's hard to stop thinking about something like this." I said, "Yes, at first it is, but it's just a bad habit. If you can break that habit by switching attention to whatever is happening in the present moment, you'll be a lot happier. Remember, there is never anything to worry about. Do whatever needs to be done, and then do the next thing that needs to be done." A few miles further, and he mentioned something else that was worrying him. I said, "Stop thinking about it." He said, "Well, I admit that I'm judgmental....." I interrupted him again and said, "If you can stop being judgmental, you'll be a lot happier." This sort of convo occurred all day as we drove on backroads, walked through graveyards, and hiked many miles up and down hills looking for a particular geological formation. By the end of the day, all I had to do when he made one of his comments about worrying or being fearful about something was simply point at him with a silent grin, and he would laugh. Later, he asked me if I ever worry about anything, and I told him never. He said, "If a civil war broke out, wouldn't you be worried?" I said, "No, if war came, I'd simply do whatever is necessary, and I'd continue to be at peace even in the midst of war." Realizations and insights inform the mind, but they can also (1) change thinking patterns and (2) eliminate past thinking patterns. stands out for me. It occurs to me that it's actually quite similar to the way Gopal sees things. Albeit, with the omission of a personal creator deity pulling the strings. Needless to say, I don't quite see it like this, and I've talked previously about the position resulting in seemingly apparent walk/talk issues in the way it unfolds. I mean to say that if it were these case, whatever unfolds seems to unfold in some unnecessarily convoluted (or even "ridiculous") ways considering it's the case. Although that is debatable I suppose. Gopal has it covered by saying it's all a necessary part of God's plan to demonstrate His greatness to His creation. So it's the path their coming to know that has to take. It's perhaps worth mentioning that the position is not what the Buddha taught. In fact from what I've seen, many of the wise seem to talk about striving diligently to change what can be changed for the better, and peaceful acceptance of that which cannot. Which it has to be said is seemingly less contradictory with the way it actually unfolds. With the way enlightenment comes about, for example. Although I notice that story often seems to be rewritten after the event, and retrospectively it never was anything but effortless, despite thoughts to the contrary at the time. Taking the G-d part out of the equation, I can actually relate to what you guys are expressing. I've previously had the same aha moment. I know what it means in terms of surrender and walking off the battlefield. I just have a different idea about what that would truly entail. That's what I've been attempting to explore lately, in a roundabout way. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 3, 2022 10:07:09 GMT -5
Similar but not the same. Each human is uniquely different both before and after various realizations. The situation here is best described as "ordinary everyday life." Nothing unusual. Ordinary life.. but with an uncommon peace of mind.. free from worry stress or anxiety Yes. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 3, 2022 10:12:51 GMT -5
Here are some quick random thoughts on this subject. The biggest differences I see between the way most folks react to unexpected life events and those who have penetrated various cognitive illusions might be summarized as: 1. Acceptance of whatever is happening in the moment (no resistance) 2. An action oriented way of life rather than a reflective way of life ("just do it") 3. A recognition that there is no personal doer behind anything that is happening 4. A recognition that it is impossible to make a mistake of any kind (THIS does everything and THIS is non-dual, so it unfolds however it unfolds and any idea about an alternative unfolding is a ridiculous exercise in imagination)5. An almost total focus upon whatever is happening in the present moment with very few, if any, thoughts about the past or future 6. A direct knowing that what one is is THIS (that everything is taken care of by the infinite intelligence of THIS) 7. A recognition of how thoughts typically keep one psychologically separated from the truth of "what is" A traumatic event, such as a car wreck, is one of the few things that momentarily can free people from their conventional thinking habits and take them out of their heads. In less traumatic situations people often go a bit nuts when unexpected things happen, and I can identify with Satch's post regarding how he reacted when his wife's sister suffered a serious physical affliction. I've had exactly the same sorts of things happen, and in those cases I calmly did whatever was necessary as the people around me went crazy. Today a friend wanted me to go fossil hunting and exploring graveyards containing "comb" graves. After we left in his truck, he began telling me how worried he was about some issue. I said with a grin, "Don't think about it." He laughed and said, "You say that all the time, but it's hard to stop thinking about something like this." I said, "Yes, at first it is, but it's just a bad habit. If you can break that habit by switching attention to whatever is happening in the present moment, you'll be a lot happier. Remember, there is never anything to worry about. Do whatever needs to be done, and then do the next thing that needs to be done." A few miles further, and he mentioned something else that was worrying him. I said, "Stop thinking about it." He said, "Well, I admit that I'm judgmental....." I interrupted him again and said, "If you can stop being judgmental, you'll be a lot happier." This sort of convo occurred all day as we drove on backroads, walked through graveyards, and hiked many miles up and down hills looking for a particular geological formation. By the end of the day, all I had to do when he made one of his comments about worrying or being fearful about something was simply point at him with a silent grin, and he would laugh. Later, he asked me if I ever worry about anything, and I told him never. He said, "If a civil war broke out, wouldn't you be worried?" I said, "No, if war came, I'd simply do whatever is necessary, and I'd continue to be at peace even in the midst of war." Realizations and insights inform the mind, but they can also (1) change thinking patterns and (2) eliminate past thinking patterns. stands out for me. It occurs to me that it's actually quite similar to the way Gopal sees things. Albeit, with the omission of a personal creator deity pulling the strings. Needless to say, I don't quite see it like this, and I've talked previously about the position resulting in seemingly apparent walk/talk issues in the way it unfolds. I mean to say that if it were these case, whatever unfolds seems to unfold in some unnecessarily convoluted (or even "ridiculous") ways considering it's the case. Although that is debatable I suppose. Gopal has it covered by saying it's all a necessary part of God's plan to demonstrate His greatness to His creation. So it's the path their coming to know that has to take. It's perhaps worth mentioning that the position is not what the Buddha taught. In fact from what I've seen, many of the wise seem to talk about striving diligently to change what can be changed for the better, and peaceful acceptance of that which cannot. Which it has to be said is seemingly less contradictory with the way it actually unfolds. With the way enlightenment comes about, for example. Although I notice that story often seems to be rewritten after the event, and retrospectively it never was anything but effortless, despite thoughts to the contrary at the time. Taking the G-d part out of the equation, I can actually relate to what you guys are expressing. I've previously had the same aha moment. I know what it means in terms of surrender and walking off the battlefield. I just have a different idea about what that would truly entail. That's what I've been attempting to explore lately, in a roundabout way. Sure. Helping others, doing what one can to reduce conflict, etc. is not precluded. How life unfolds is neither convoluted nor otherwise; it simply is what it is, and one responds accordingly. These words are pointing AWAY from ideation, opinions, and judgmentalness. |
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 3, 2022 11:02:47 GMT -5
This stands out for me. It occurs to me that it's actually quite similar to the way Gopal sees things. Albeit, with the omission of a personal creator deity pulling the strings. Needless to say, I don't quite see it like this, and I've talked previously about the position resulting in seemingly apparent walk/talk issues in the way it unfolds. I mean to say that if it were these case, whatever unfolds seems to unfold in some unnecessarily convoluted (or even "ridiculous") ways considering it's the case. Although that is debatable I suppose. Gopal has it covered by saying it's all a necessary part of God's plan to demonstrate His greatness to His creation. So it's the path their coming to know that has to take. It's perhaps worth mentioning that the position is not what the Buddha taught. In fact from what I've seen, many of the wise seem to talk about striving diligently to change what can be changed for the better, and peaceful acceptance of that which cannot. Which it has to be said is seemingly less contradictory with the way it actually unfolds. With the way enlightenment comes about, for example. Although I notice that story often seems to be rewritten after the event, and retrospectively it never was anything but effortless, despite thoughts to the contrary at the time. Taking the G-d part out of the equation, I can actually relate to what you guys are expressing. I've previously had the same aha moment. I know what it means in terms of surrender and walking off the battlefield. I just have a different idea about what that would truly entail. That's what I've been attempting to explore lately, in a roundabout way. Sure. Helping others, doing what one can to reduce conflict, etc. is not precluded. How life unfolds is neither convoluted nor otherwise; it simply is what it is, and one responds accordingly. These words are pointing AWAY from ideation, opinions, and judgmentalness. Sure, it's hard to qualify. I guess I was just thinking about how those who take the view that ultimately there is no choice, will often talk [to others] in a way that appears to suggest otherwise. That's what I'm calling unnecessarily convoluted. It just seems odd that that's how it plays out in the first place considering there is no alternative. That, that's the way 'this unfolds' in any event, under the circumstances. But especially so where it's supposedly known that there is no alternative. I guess you can dismiss all that as merely ideas about 'this' or whatever, and if you're content with that then I suppose it's fine. It's just that I sense something is awry. |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 3, 2022 11:08:51 GMT -5
Similar but not the same. Each human is uniquely different both before and after various realizations. The situation here is best described as "ordinary everyday life." Nothing unusual. Ordinary life.. but with an uncommon peace of mind.. free from worry stress or anxiety I think in your case it has nothing to do with enlightenment and everything to do with a certain kind of madness that has reefs' name at the start of it.😉 |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 3, 2022 11:29:15 GMT -5
Sure. Helping others, doing what one can to reduce conflict, etc. is not precluded. How life unfolds is neither convoluted nor otherwise; it simply is what it is, and one responds accordingly. These words are pointing AWAY from ideation, opinions, and judgmentalness. Sure, it's hard to qualify. I guess I was just thinking about how those who take the view that ultimately there is no choice, will often talk [to others] in a way that appears to suggest otherwise. That's what I'm calling unnecessarily convoluted. It just seems odd that that's how it plays out in the first place considering there is no alternative. That, that's the way 'this unfolds' in any event, under the circumstances. But especially so where it's supposedly known that there is no alternative. I guess you can dismiss all that as merely ideas about 'this' or whatever, and if you're content with that then I suppose it's fine. It's just that I sense something is awry. My mom was deathly allergic to bee stings. As a young man while attending a family picnic, a bee landed on her arm, before she could react or I could react, my hand flicked it off her arm and squished it. It happened so fast the mind didn't realize what had happened until after the fact. It basically had to reconstruct it. Things come out of "left field," a baseball reference used to describe something unexpected here in the states. I find talk of choice or predestination attempts to wrap our heads around things that are bigger than our heads. I find most good ideas come out of left field. Uncanny, a favorite word. |
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