|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 28, 2022 13:15:29 GMT -5
That's the Randi trap again. You are asking the impossible. How can you try to prove a point to someone and be in alignment at the same time? When you are in alignment you don't care what anybody thinks. When you care what someone thinks, you are not in alignment. But more importantly, it would be illogical given your strong disbelief that LOA would match you up with someone who could show you a 200m swim in less than 1:45. First you would have to believe that it is possible before you can attract someone who can show that it is possible. If you don't believe it possible, the people you will attract that are willing to play your silly game will all fail. And then you say, see I told you it doesn't work! Well, duh!  Yes. Also, I find it a little hard to imagine that this is a desire that can be aligned to, because there's a measurement built into the desire, and measurements are rational and limiting. There's also a competitive element which strikes me as incompatible. Alignment is a felt sense that isn't compatible with number crunching and egoic goals. One could align easily to the desire to swim with elegance, grace and power, or to experience joyful swimming (or experience themselves as a joyful swimmer). This can all be felt. I've noted that some folks like to focus attention sometimes on manifesting 'specific' amounts of money. I've no real idea how successful they are. I guess they can imagine the feeling of seeing that specific amount of money in their bank each week, and that might work for them. Personally, I can't see the point in focusing on money, because money is just a means to an end. Makes more sense to me to focus on the actual desire, and if monetary flow happens as part of that, then that's fine. Also, as someone else said (maybe laffy, not sure), effort might be part of the unfolding. If I wanted to experience myself as being very strong, then as part of that, I might be guided to commit to a challenging weight training programme. In alignment, we follow our inner guidance, and that isn't always 'perfect effortlessness'. It might mean doing some uncomfortable or awkward things. I value health highly, and generally focus on it in an aligned way. As part of that, I've been to the dentist a few times lately, which can be a bit unpleasant (but that's fine). For someone else, it might mean having surgery on something. Unpleasant, but might be necessary as part of the unfolding movement towards excellent health. Which reminds me, I received psychic surgery on an old back problem recently. It was brilliant. All done on zoom. Results have been excellent. The rule is: if you can conceive it, you can achieve it. So don't put limits on what the Infinite can or cannot deliver. Remember, physical laws are not laws, they are only agreements. But everyone has his/her own individual path of least resistance. Action as a way to enjoy what we created via energy flow is fun, productive and easy. But action as a way to compensate for what we didn't do via energy flow is hard, unproductive and not fun. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 28, 2022 13:21:59 GMT -5
Okay so "LOA is always operating in everything and thru everything." So how does extinction of dinosaurs via asteroid impact get explained in terms of LOA? Negative group think? That assumes that their extinction was negative for them. Sometimes death is the highest and least resistant path to joy. That doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to make that point. At a subconscious level of consciousness, I would guess that they had fulfilled their time on the planet. They were ready to leave. Ready for the next adventure. At this level, nobody and nothing leaves before they are ready, even if the conscious mind-body protests. Bingo! There could be all kinds of individual 'reasons' of course, but fact is they all rendezvoused at that point in time. And that's what LOA is all about, matching up individuals, things and events. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 13:23:27 GMT -5
Yes. Also, I find it a little hard to imagine that this is a desire that can be aligned to, because there's a measurement built into the desire, and measurements are rational and limiting. There's also a competitive element which strikes me as incompatible. Alignment is a felt sense that isn't compatible with number crunching and egoic goals. One could align easily to the desire to swim with elegance, grace and power, or to experience joyful swimming (or experience themselves as a joyful swimmer). This can all be felt. I've noted that some folks like to focus attention sometimes on manifesting 'specific' amounts of money. I've no real idea how successful they are. I guess they can imagine the feeling of seeing that specific amount of money in their bank each week, and that might work for them. Personally, I can't see the point in focusing on money, because money is just a means to an end. Makes more sense to me to focus on the actual desire, and if monetary flow happens as part of that, then that's fine. Also, as someone else said (maybe laffy, not sure), effort might be part of the unfolding. If I wanted to experience myself as being very strong, then as part of that, I might be guided to commit to a challenging weight training programme. In alignment, we follow our inner guidance, and that isn't always 'perfect effortlessness'. It might mean doing some uncomfortable or awkward things. I value health highly, and generally focus on it in an aligned way. As part of that, I've been to the dentist a few times lately, which can be a bit unpleasant (but that's fine). For someone else, it might mean having surgery on something. Unpleasant, but might be necessary as part of the unfolding movement towards excellent health. Which reminds me, I received psychic surgery on an old back problem recently. It was brilliant. All done on zoom. Results have been excellent. Remember, physical laws are not laws, they are only agreements. But everyone has his/her own individual path of least resistance. Action as a way to enjoy what we created via energy flow is fun, productive and easy. But action as a way to compensate for what we didn't do via energy flow is hard, unproductive and not fun. Oh I know. I'm sure you know after all my years here what I desire, and I'm generally very aligned to it these days. When it comes to the 'big' stuff, I can see 2 limits. The first is that the desire itself has to be conceived in joy, it has to come from the heart. It has to be authentic and true for the individual. The second limit is that we have to align to it, and that's not always possible or even appropriate. For many years I've known my desire, but my capacity to align to it wasn't great for a lot of those years. It's gotten considerably better in recent years, which tells me that the manifestation is closer. To that extent, it is actually 'out of my hands'. I can only align to the degree that it is possible. Abraham likes to sell us the idea of 'choice' and I do find the teaching too idealistic, as much as I like it. The reality of the unfolding is more nuanced and complex, and I would say that sometimes hard, unproductive and unfun action is necessary, if that is still the path of least resistance. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 13:23:56 GMT -5
That assumes that their extinction was negative for them. Sometimes death is the highest and least resistant path to joy. That doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to make that point. At a subconscious level of consciousness, I would guess that they had fulfilled their time on the planet. They were ready to leave. Ready for the next adventure. At this level, nobody and nothing leaves before they are ready, even if the conscious mind-body protests. Bingo! There could be all kinds of individual 'reasons' of course, but fact is they all rendezvoused at that point in time. And that's what LOA is all about, matching up individuals, things and events. yep  |
|
|
|
Post by maxdprophet on Nov 28, 2022 13:27:58 GMT -5
Okay so "LOA is always operating in everything and thru everything." So how does extinction of dinosaurs via asteroid impact get explained in terms of LOA? Negative group think? You are skeptical. Me too. Do you have any argument against LOA? No, I'm not that interested in it. From my very limited understanding of it, it seems like arguing against it would by like fighting a tar-baby. Every once in a while I wonder why does that person believe in LOA? So I was curious about Rupert Spira when I stumbled upon a video of him discussing it. Turns out he's not that interested either, and doesn't know much about it. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 28, 2022 13:30:30 GMT -5
The rule is: if you can conceive it, you can achieve it. So don't put limits on what the Infinite can or cannot deliver. Remember, physical laws are not laws, they are only agreements. But everyone has his/her own individual path of least resistance. Action as a way to enjoy what we created via energy flow is fun, productive and easy. But action as a way to compensate for what we didn't do via energy flow is hard, unproductive and not fun. Oh I know. I'm sure you know after all my years here what I desire, and I'm generally very aligned to it these days. When it comes to the 'big' stuff, I can see 2 limits. The first is that the desire itself has to be conceived in joy, it has to come from the heart. It has to be authentic and true for the individual. The second limit is that we have to align to it, and that's not always possible or even appropriate. For many years I've known my desire, but my capacity to align to it wasn't great for a lot of those years. It's gotten considerably better in recent years, which tells me that the manifestation is closer. To that extent, it is actually 'out of my hands'. I can only align to the degree that it is possible. Abraham likes to sell us the idea of 'choice' and I do find the teaching too idealistic, as much as I like it. The reality of the unfolding is more nuanced and complex, and I would say that sometimes hard, unproductive and unfun action is necessary, if that is still the path of least resistance. In the context of contrast (aka: "Now that I really know what I don't want, what is it that I do want?") they would actually agree. It is necessary for expansion. You will never get rid of contrast. It only gets more subtle. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 13:37:06 GMT -5
You are skeptical. Me too. Do you have any argument against LOA? No, I'm not that interested in it. From my very limited understanding of it, it seems like arguing against it would by like fighting a tar-baby. Every once in a while I wonder why does that person believe in LOA? So I was curious about Rupert Spira when I stumbled upon a video of him discussing it. Turns out he's not that interested either, and doesn't know much about it. To have an honest and sincere desire, and believe that this desire is unlikely or impossible, is a terrible thing. I would say this is at the core of mass depression in people. A sense of hopelessness and helplessness.... 'There's no point in my desire because I'll never be able to have it'. This is how stoicism becomes a coping mechanism. So regardless of whether 'deliberate creation' gets results or not, it gives people permission to fully own their desire. That's an incredible thing, because it's self-honest, transparent and courageous. It's living close to the edge. And I would say that experiencing disappointment and failure is almost guaranteed as part of the process. Failure can be good for us, it breaks our attachments, it breaks our self-images, it can lead to compassion, empathy and forgiveness. And it also forces us to get closer to the true seed of our desires. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 13:37:38 GMT -5
Oh I know. I'm sure you know after all my years here what I desire, and I'm generally very aligned to it these days. When it comes to the 'big' stuff, I can see 2 limits. The first is that the desire itself has to be conceived in joy, it has to come from the heart. It has to be authentic and true for the individual. The second limit is that we have to align to it, and that's not always possible or even appropriate. For many years I've known my desire, but my capacity to align to it wasn't great for a lot of those years. It's gotten considerably better in recent years, which tells me that the manifestation is closer. To that extent, it is actually 'out of my hands'. I can only align to the degree that it is possible. Abraham likes to sell us the idea of 'choice' and I do find the teaching too idealistic, as much as I like it. The reality of the unfolding is more nuanced and complex, and I would say that sometimes hard, unproductive and unfun action is necessary, if that is still the path of least resistance. In the context of contrast (aka: "Now that I really know what I don't want, what is it that I do want?") they would actually agree. It is necessary for expansion. You will never get rid of contrast. It only gets more subtle. ah yes, fair point. |
|
|
|
Post by maxdprophet on Nov 28, 2022 13:52:18 GMT -5
Okay so "LOA is always operating in everything and thru everything." So how does extinction of dinosaurs via asteroid impact get explained in terms of LOA? Negative group think? That assumes that their extinction was negative for them. Sometimes death is the highest and least resistant path to joy. That doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to make that point. At a subconscious level of consciousness, I would guess that they had fulfilled their time on the planet. They were ready to leave. Ready for the next adventure. At this level, nobody and nothing leaves before they are ready, even if the conscious mind-body protests. haha well hard to argue with that. rilly rilly hard! immediately thought of this guy:  |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 14:00:20 GMT -5
That assumes that their extinction was negative for them. Sometimes death is the highest and least resistant path to joy. That doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to make that point. At a subconscious level of consciousness, I would guess that they had fulfilled their time on the planet. They were ready to leave. Ready for the next adventure. At this level, nobody and nothing leaves before they are ready, even if the conscious mind-body protests. haha well hard to argue with that. rilly rilly hard! immediately thought of this guy:  We don't see you here very often, it's (almost) always nice to see an old face (or avatar) pop up out of the blue. Hope you and the family are doing well. |
|
|
|
Post by maxdprophet on Nov 28, 2022 14:04:01 GMT -5
haha well hard to argue with that. rilly rilly hard! immediately thought of this guy: We don't see you here very often, it's (almost) always nice to see an old face (or avatar) pop up out of the blue. Hope you and the family are doing well. Hope and ye shall receive! We are doing well. And I hope the same for you! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 14:25:40 GMT -5
I often look at this topic from the context of athletic performance. I think Lolly is too. Athletic performance is a good dissolver of bullshit - there is a stopwatch, or a weight rack, or an opponent punching you. It's pretty simple. To be fair, I think some of the effortless / immediate manifesting ideas may apply more in other contexts. I used to swim competitively, and I grew up with a fair amount of magical thinking and used to try to Jedi-mind-trick myself into swimming faster in various ways. It did have some effect, but not much. Later I stumbled into a team that pushed me to train and endure pain way beyond what I thought I could do, and beyond what I done previously. It was then that I saw the most dramatic improvement of my life. So these discussions about "manifesting" sometimes seem suspiciously abstract and divorced from first person accounts and demonstrations. If one of you can get in a pool and swim 200 meters freestyle in 1:45, just from being in "alignment", please demonstrate. 🏊♂️ ⏱ 🙂 That's the Randi trap again. You are asking the impossible. How can you try to prove a point to someone and be in alignment at the same time? When you are in alignment you don't care what anybody thinks. When you care what someone thinks, you are not in alignment. But more importantly, it would be illogical given your strong disbelief that LOA would match you up with someone who could show you a 200m swim in less than 1:45. First you would have to believe that it is possible before you can attract someone who can show that it is possible. If you don't believe it possible, the people you will attract that are willing to play your silly game will all fail. And then you say, see I told you it doesn't work! Well, duh! As usual, you mischaracterize my open inquiry on this topic as hardened disbelief. You can't handle basic and clear questions here and it's telling. |
|
|
|
Post by sree on Nov 28, 2022 14:27:10 GMT -5
You are skeptical. Me too. Do you have any argument against LOA? No, I'm not that interested in it. From my very limited understanding of it, it seems like arguing against it would by like fighting a tar-baby. Every once in a while I wonder why does that person believe in LOA? So I was curious about Rupert Spira when I stumbled upon a video of him discussing it. Turns out he's not that interested either, and doesn't know much about it. Being alive is a mystery. Being alive in an insecure and dangerous reality makes one seek out and cling to any belief that can mitigate the fear. It's not easy to face reality. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 14:52:53 GMT -5
That's the Randi trap again. You are asking the impossible. How can you try to prove a point to someone and be in alignment at the same time? When you are in alignment you don't care what anybody thinks. When you care what someone thinks, you are not in alignment. But more importantly, it would be illogical given your strong disbelief that LOA would match you up with someone who could show you a 200m swim in less than 1:45. First you would have to believe that it is possible before you can attract someone who can show that it is possible. If you don't believe it possible, the people you will attract that are willing to play your silly game will all fail. And then you say, see I told you it doesn't work! Well, duh! Yes. Also, I find it a little hard to imagine that this is a desire that can be aligned to, because there's a measurement built into the desire, and measurements are rational and limiting. There's also a competitive element which strikes me as incompatible. Alignment is a felt sense that isn't compatible with number crunching and egoic goals. One could align easily to the desire to swim with elegance, grace and power, or to experience joyful swimming (or experience themselves as a joyful swimmer). This can all be felt. [...] I agree with that. I almost wrote something similar in my post from yesterday - that "alignment" would be about finding the joy in the moment, in the feel of the water, the movement. I remember doing that! As a side effect I think it makes you a slightly better swimmer from a time/measurement point of view, but you wouldn't focus or obsess on those external measurements. That's actually where I ended up, and why I don't compete in athletics much anymore. Or if I do, it's just fun and I don't mind "winning" or "losing", unlike the teenage ego. But Reefs keeps pushing this idea that you can manifest god-like personal-ego-power in concrete and measured ways - like in our example here, to swim with the measured speed an Olympic athlete because of some alignment/creation power. My simple questions trigger him into bouts of logical failure, and the usual mischaracterizing my inquiry as hardened (dis)belief. Attachment to these kind of personal-power beliefs - smells like buried denial-of-death to me. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Nov 28, 2022 15:34:47 GMT -5
It depends on what one is required to experience and for what reason . You can sing affirmations all day long to win the lottery, but if one is required to live in poverty then nothing is going to change that . , nobody is required to "live in poverty". Poverty results ultimately from one or more liming beliefs held by the pauper, most likely unconscious beliefs that may have been unfounded and never taken care of. For example, "if one is required to live in poverty then nothing is going to change that", is a belief. When you don't like what you experience, you have to identify the beliefs that cause it. It is what to some degree psychoanalysis does, and age and past-life regression do too. Each belief once identified, and most likely seen as being unfounded, or at least unfounded anymore, can be suspended and replaced with a constructive belief. Consequently the current experience will change, and usually rapidly. If it doesn't change, there might be other beliefs that need identification, and closure. Even from the perspective that the current predicament was "selected" before birth, it was selected only to be dealt with, not to be experienced as suffering. Suffering is a symptom, not a cure. I suppose it boils down to having an understanding of prior to life experience and life times had previously or not . Some believe that one starts off in life with a clean slate and it's by luck if one incarnates into circumstances and environment less favourable than other's. The royal babe or the one born on the streets . I have a fair understanding of my current life in reflection of other's had . It's by no coincidence . One has to understand why a certain lifetime experienced is experienced . You see Jesus was never going to be a fisherman or a blacksmith . |
|
