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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 8:24:44 GMT -5
I think the word I was looking for was Vasanas But Gupas works too l, interestingly lol |
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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 8:36:14 GMT -5
As near as I can tell, it was simply: Curiosity I think if he were born 20 years ago though he would have been an extreme athlete doing the most dangerous sports with wreckless abandon....because he dove headfirst into his exploration of death with the fearlessness of somebody with no concern whatsoever about self preservation lol He didn't explore death intentionally. It took him by surprise as described here in his own words. realization.org/p/ramana/moment-of-realization/moment-of-realization.2.htmlI respectfully disagree. The subject may have presented itself as a seemingly random thought embued with emotion....but if your read his words his immediet inclination was to dive in and explore it....he almost attacked it so to speak....while so many others, having realized death, back away. |
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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 12:34:03 GMT -5
There is this feeling in me that you might be bakk/ape/anja and alertpeaceeternal. Why is that? Why do I have this feeling. Although you are all different persons, in different bodies. But why do I feel this way? Maybe it`s because you and bakk, the others are related. That we carry the same genetic make-up. That we are human beings. That we are spirit/souls. As atma/soul, there is no distinction between you and bakk, ape/ajna? So, my feeling is that you and bakk are one yet different. What I feel for both of you. What I feel for bakk/alertpeaceeternal. What I feel for any girl/woman is this feeling I have for you which can not be defined or conceived. This feeling goes way back when we were not yet born. It comes in so many guises i.g. love, care, etc. why why why... who the hell knows why. Today you feel this, and tomorrow you will feel something else. It is ephemeral, no substance. When you were not yet born - there was no feeling. There was nothing. And will be nothing - after. Thats a pretty Nihilist view of things isnt it? At a minimum its a dismissal of the richness and beauty of this life, the power you have to enjoy it, and its quite possibly an insidious mind trip into an imagined past and future. I say insidious because the thoughts are about the absolute in the past and the absolute in the future, so it can SEEM like that is a "right thought~right action"....but isnt that still just mind games? |
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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 12:43:50 GMT -5
""The shock or fear of death made me at once introspective, or 'introverted'. I said to myself mentally, i.e., without uttering the words — 'Now, death has come. What does it mean? What is it that is dying? This body dies.' I at once dramatized the scene of death. I extended my limbs and held them rigid as though rigor-mortis had set in. I imitated a corpse to lend an air of reality to my further investigation, I held my breath and kept my mouth closed, pressing the lips tightly together so that no sound might escape. Let not the word 'I' or any other word be uttered! 'Well then,' said I to myself, 'this body is dead." Lol There was intent....intent with wreckless abandon lol While most run from the realization of death, Ramana's first instinct is the instinct of the extreme athlete....to run headlong over the cliff, instead of backing away lol. As an aside....he went immedietly, instinctually into one of the 112 meditation techniques of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra ;-) One of the reasons that I think Ramana "Went for it" with such wreckless abandon was his age...at age 16 the prefontal cortex, which processes risk, is not developed yet. A perfect storm was created in the birth of Ramana in the same way it was with Michael Phelps the Olympic swimmer. Phelps was born with the right kind of mix of slow twitch and fast twitch muscles fibers, he is very tall but has an elongated torso and shorter limbs....all perfectly suited to fast swimming. But he also has the right mental makeup....so many things coming together to produce that nearly perfect human swimmer. In Ramana's field he too was "born" for what he became...a nearly perfect combination of traits, attributes, and environment to produce a Ramana Its so fascinating and wonderful enough in its own right that we do not need to remove the humaness of him that was still there after this event at age 16...he still had work to do after that event....and he set about it with the same kind of mix of wreckless abandon and dogged pursuit of perfection that a world class extreme athlete does. Notice that I did not say athlete, I said EXTREME athlete...like the guys that go 30 feet in the air on vert ramps, or base jumpers in glider suites etc. I know what you said and meant. I see nothing fascinating and wonderful, just a human being like billions before him. My question to you is what makes you explore this particular chap's path in the way you are doing it. Ahh but arent all human beings fascinating and wonderful? Also, its a pretty big stretch to say that Ramana is just like the other billions of human beings isnt it? If a human is a essentually a series of events, then his series of events was somewhat different than the norm, and therefore, at least for me....interesting lol To your Question...i am no longer exploring this Chap's path or anything similar....though when I was younger I certainly had an interest in something very similar to what he was doing, which seems to me to be the complete anihilation of yhe vasanahs and samskaras....the complete anihilation of the rising of what most people perceive as the self. As to why, thats simple: Profound and deep Curiosity. |
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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 12:52:07 GMT -5
Thats a pretty Nihilist view of things isnt it? At a minimum its a dismissal of the richness and beauty of this life, the power you have to enjoy it, and its quite possibly an insidious mind trip into an imagined past and future. I say insidious because the thoughts are about the absolute in the past and the absolute in the future, so it can SEEM like that is a "right thought~right action"....but isnt that still just mind games? It is a realistic view of things which does not dismiss the beauty. I am not concerned about past or future, you are imagining something which has not been expressed and is not there. Right action comes in a form of 'right.for.you'. May not be 'right' for some other entity. You seem cold, aloof, and a bit distant. Can you warm up a little, and come closer? And maybe get your hands a little dirty in the spinning of the wet clay into the vase? |
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Post by steven777 on Apr 11, 2017 13:03:38 GMT -5
Ahh but arent all human beings fascinating and wonderful? Also, its a pretty big stretch to say that Ramana is just like the other billions of human beings isnt it? If a human is a essentually a series of events, then his series of events was somewhat different than the norm, and therefore, at least for me....interesting lol To your Question...i am no longer exploring this Chap's path or anything similar....though when I was younger I certainly had an interest in something very similar to what he was doing, which seems to me to be the complete anihilation of yhe sansarahs and samskaras....the complete anihilation of the rising of what most people percieve as the self. As to why, thats simple: Profound and deep Curiosity. I don't know if all humans are fascinating and wonderful. Some might be. I also have curiosity, but not about what once was, that is dead for me. I used to love history and still have an interest, but only in the ways it's connected to now. You are using strange words the same as many here. I hope you haven't given yourself a new name which sounds vaguely Indian or some such. No need for complete anihilation. At all. LoL Thats better, warmer, if not warm. ;-) No, my name is Steven, nice to meet you. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Apr 11, 2017 16:58:13 GMT -5
There is this feeling in me that you might be bakk/ape/anja and alertpeaceeternal. Why is that? Why do I have this feeling. Although you are all different persons, in different bodies. But why do I feel this way? Maybe it`s because you and bakk, the others are related. That we carry the same genetic make-up. That we are human beings. That we are spirit/souls. As atma/soul, there is no distinction between you and bakk, ape/ajna? So, my feeling is that you and bakk are one yet different. What I feel for both of you. What I feel for bakk/alertpeaceeternal. What I feel for any girl/woman is this feeling I have for you which can not be defined or conceived. This feeling goes way back when we were not yet born. It comes in so many guises i.g. love, care, etc. why why why... who the hell knows why. Today you feel this, and tomorrow you will feel something else. It is ephemeral, no substance. When you were not yet born - there was no feeling. There was nothing. And will be nothing - after. I dreamed of a girl last night. She was very illusive. When I gone near she ran. When I got hold of her hand, she withdrew it. Why, why, oh why..Feelings is what make the world go round. If feelings are nothing to someone, then she must be from Alaska/Antartica. Did you ever fall in love? |
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Post by laughter on Apr 11, 2017 23:38:25 GMT -5
He gives that away in the Preface or some such, before the second book actually starts. It's like...oh...btw, don't look for me, the books are not accounts of actual events...bla, bla, bla.... ALL CHARACTERS, PLACES AND EVENTS depicted in these books are entirely fictional insofar as these books and the universe in which they exist are entirely fictional. Any resemblance to actual people, places and events is purely the result of resemblance to actual people, places and events. It's an ambiguous tease.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 3:03:35 GMT -5
ALL CHARACTERS, PLACES AND EVENTS depicted in these books are entirely fictional insofar as these books and the universe in which they exist are entirely fictional. Any resemblance to actual people, places and events is purely the result of resemblance to actual people, places and events. It's an ambiguous tease. Deliciously so.  |
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Post by laughter on Apr 12, 2017 6:19:17 GMT -5
It's an ambiguous tease. Deliciously so. For some peeps it seems to register as a bitter flavor though.  |
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Post by bluey on Apr 12, 2017 12:17:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. Now Jed could argue Bach you need glamour in teachings to present this Nothing over to those who believe and move in the world of something. I can't just open a stall and sell nothing, present nothing as it will not be understood. I will have no seekers. I've dressed this up and look every one on YouTube and in the spiritual marketplace are queuing up. Yes the mystery of my identity and the actor in my videos has got them hooked in. They even think it's my voice. Im acting as a bridge and yes when they come to it it will be like the phone sex you mentioned earlier, an ordinary granny on the other end knitting and groaning spiritual words which arouse them. They will be disappointed, have a zen moment, feel a real let down when they see me, how very ordinary this is. It worked on Tano. She's seeing this stall is just empty. What The Hell. Where is the Jed from the videos, the books.........and who is this girl you have on your arm. I'm the one you're waiting for I have it on my email.....and he may say Bach you come from the tantric traditions you can bring stillness to a woman through touch right lovemaking. I'm just doing the same or am I. Is there something to be seen through yet. Tano seems to think so. Yet I may say the right person will come along, even if it's one person. They will have a maturity an understanding of the marketplace. They will feel something of the empty stall as they are very close to it. There is no right or wrong. Different horses for different courses. A true teacher will want the student to go beyond the expression he or she is presenting. As we ride on the backs of those who come before us as there is no language for That. Bodhidarma was said to have sat facing a wall, some traditions talk of him waiting for the right seeker to come along. Jed may say cook the words put on a show. Enjoy the play. There was a poster who used to post on here with the lassie dog he had been at one stage in the sant mat traditions. They give you names to meditate on, the rulers of the inner regions as in the classical texts of Kabir, niz's guru who talked of the Indian sage Tukaram who talked of the inner regions the rulers within, in his works, one of my favourite sages. One lady I met who had awakened through those teachings told me of when one guru was passing on the mantle ship to the next guru where he took him to show him how seekers are in the marketplace and they visited the kumbh mela. It's a gathering every so many years of sadhus yogis so called awakened ones in India. Google it. And she said they both sat there and all day no one came to them. The seekers seemed more interested in the glamour the entertainment of what was in the market place, the image and projections they had placed on what a guru is, what awakening is and so these two ordinary sages were overlooked. And the main guru said if one person comes we will take them within. And she told me one lady came and the guru placed his students hand on her head and his hand over his and her mind was made still as she went within. Ramana placed over a very ordinary teaching. Only a few understood him. What's beautiful about him is that his presence was enough to awaken anyone. Then he had to give a practice to those who couldn't be present to what he was. It's seems Robert Adams felt him straight away just as I did when I met the man in the book store. I had my back to him but his voice made me smile. And just seeing the stillness in his eyes was enough for me. I was in the sales game on the market I had a habit of looking at people and doing a quick sale. But here was someone I had never seen enter the marketplace. I couldn't sell after that meeting. Going back to Ramana, his mother and the animals around him. And what's beautiful I once read how he danced with and used touch with the cow and used touch with his mother just as the two sages had done at the kumbh mela. A true sage can do that. And you know he's a sage when he dances in emptiness. Why Ramana is known as the greatest sage in India. As he didn't wear a mask. Didn't hide behind any pretence or glamour. But Jed may say that was glamour too as I am in the game. He is wearing a mask. Now Jed may say seekers are spoilt they have every teacher at hand on the net. Every book is available to them. This is how I'm going to present this Nothing over as this is now the ignorance of these times not Ramanas, Kabirs time. I have to give them the phone sex as you mentioned earlier through my books and videos so the mind collapses from glamour, separation to Nothingness, Oneness. If you still use the expression 'true sage' then there is something to be seen through. There are no true sages. Those who saw what is AND have Intergrity within them - remain silent and DO NOT ENTER the market place, do not need seekers, have no wish to teach anything. How can one enter the spiritual market place and attempt to sell - exactly nothing? There is NOTHING TO SELL. Full stop. As Jed used to say - selling tomatos from an empty cart... which he has now successfully done himself. Ramana was a man. I am sure he wanked. Don't know about girls on his arm, but Niz had those. Ramana just lived, then stupid fascinated mindless people came and made it into a road show.. he gave in too, designed the ashram (he was an active participant in that) and lived happily ever after. No one escapes the Dream, because there is nowhere to go. Like Ramana - Jed dances too, except not with cows.. with 'birds'. 'Cultural' differences I guess? It sounds as if you are saying I spoke about telephone sex and grannies. I never have, it was someone else. I speak of true sage from the Indian context.....Sat Guru.....as the classical texts warn of false teachers. I never met any teachers who were hiding much........i think you misread what I wrote........and I am speaking about the early days, as I was in my early twenties working on a market stall, it happened at home and it was full blown following on from a semi experience a day or few days before. I definitely needed help after that as my thoughts had pretty much stopped, I was rushing to the loo non stop, a high fever too, went down to just under 6 stone which lasted for years, as I was being cultivated by That. The more identifying as being as just That and in all things came with the many deaths that came later, after being with Barry Long and seeing Ian. Similar experiences happened with Donna and Ian as they did no practice beforehand. Why practice has its place for integrating and pulling the mind to the source. You will see even with Eckhart Tolle he visited teachers after too. He did no practice, the teachers were placed for confirmation of what had taken place in the early days. Many experiences happened before meeting the man in the book store more to do with Tantra and I knew I would meet the unknown sage as my sister kept on saying why do you keep going to town every Sunday. Only for me to reply there's someone I need to meet. The teachers came in after and they were needed and provided for as life does that. And you have to understand I came from a good open family but the extended fam were very traditional, Sikh family. So very fixed and in a box in many ways. So that was being undone too. So much had to be undone it wasn't the case of before enlightenment chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment chop wood and carry water. That may be true of those in a certain tradition who follow on in that tradition. All of traditions around me were made to go. Just my partner. She was taken from me earlier but was returned later. I'm glad for that as she is beautiful. So none of the expected marriage, children, business from the past script. That was wiped out. Just the meeting up of this old white fellow with piercing blue eyes. With a wild tantric character. And that's been beautiful too as most teachings come out of the East. And most extended family members were shaking their heads at the very idea I was sitting with an old man, dressed in very ordinary western clothes talking of life and the deepening of this in a language that was very ordinary yet I could feel the depths behind every word. And all my teachers have been white why I joked once white men can jump. This just doesn't just happen to those in the East and have brown skin. When I mean good I am pointing at their Love for That and how they share it over. I've seen it in Ramana too and how he would share this over but as an observer looking in, from what I have read on him. Much may be missing I don't know. By clean record I mean that nothing has to come to light of him exploiting students or any people around him. I can only go by my own experience with being around other awakened people, walking right next to them. And it's been a real case of true intimacy and not the old Bach in the story of me caught up in a past script as is the norm for most people. By intimacy I mean being unscripted being available in the present moment. It was a beautiful meeting the man in book store, our meetings together. And it deepened after and in the years that followed. It's good to be a student even though you can make the claim of being the other. I see myself as a student of Ian Wolstenholme and the teachers that have come before too. Even though Ian says put yourself out there more, a website etc and I say no I am fine working and just sharing when the right person comes along. Plus i would find it difficult to charge as when someone does come along I always point them to Ian but many want to stay speaking to me. And that can be a bit of a strain on the finances. Just like the girl in Canada I go to see. I do extra hours to make that trip to share this over and because I have been there when I needed the help. Life provided a teacher for free. Why people wake up around me as they need just a little shake up. Some need to do a practice but like my boss's wife just placing my hands on her head and she goes within. She doesn't need to meditate. Love making is just with my partner. And that brings her to more Nothing more Love. And I love the fact my first two teachers were more wild because of their Tantric traditions but being with Ian it's very different softer and that's been the deepening in what's writing this too. So the question of putting them on a peddle stool. It's just the sharing, the beautiful unfolding of this and the gratitude of being with some teachers who have definitely helped along the way. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Apr 12, 2017 20:14:54 GMT -5
I dreamed of a girl last night. She was very illusive. When I gone near she ran. When I got hold of her hand, she withdrew it. Why, why, oh why..Feelings is what make the world go round. If feelings are nothing to someone, then she must be from Alaska/Antartica. Did you ever fall in love? What I thought of as 'love' then.. yes. But I don't know anymore what love is, or even whether - it is. I am only driven by curiosity these days. The world is an interesting and strange place to be in. Better keep it alive in your heart. Without it we are just a complex piece of hunk. |
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Post by bluey on May 14, 2017 10:33:23 GMT -5
Tano I caught the bit about you asking if I teach and it's a shame you've deleted your account as you are bringing much but it it's is what it is. I couldn't find the link. But no I don't teach like I said earlier I'm still a student of Ian and anyone else who appears to me. I still don't know what he teaches something about scripts and locating as the Seer but love just to sit in stillness as I do with Donna. People at work always say what do you talk about but I say very little. We tend to just stare laugh a lot smile hug and that's pretty much it. They find that strange or their mind does for now. All the sages that have presented themselves there always has been a deep trust. Trust is important in Being with a true teacher. Why the sages of the East talk of satsang the company of Being In The Space with a true guru a Sat Guru. Why they emphasise on the word Sat Guru and not guru.
Even in the early day picking up Gurdjieffs books Oshos books as they were the only books available in bookstores after the blow out. I felt they were cooking, the words projecting glamour and they may have been a reaction to times they presented their teachings in. And not really speaking about how to stop thinking and Be This. Why when the teacher appeared In the bookstore he was speaking more from this Space and understanding. The walking next to him over many months was very much needed. Going to Glastonbury to see Ian after Barry Long the amount of books on teachers, absolutely amazing a seekers paradise. You name the book, it's there. I don't know if thats a good thing as you may take on the words but not the walk.
I do work but tend to have people appear who are at the last stages who just need a shake up or I send them to Ian. They tend to drop off books in my little library for others. It's a great exchange. Just the other week one estate agent picked up tolles book from there and whilst reading it had an experience. Which for me is the real work.
But just as I had fallen awake without a method or teacher. I come across those who are going through the same process as the school girl in Canada who is a little older now at college who went silent after trying to tell doctors, psychologists that her thoughts had pretty much stopped after something shifted. Only for them to say that's not normal. So fell into silence at not being met and It's only when we met she began speaking again and her mother telling me she hasn't stopped dancing. She's taking her driving lessons now. She's coming back down the mountain. It's not easy for some who wake up without a tradition or method. Why meditation and practice can be very important as you can integrate this Space as you go deeper within and then say nothing happened to the character in the story as I Am That have always been That nothing else just an imagined sense of me was in the way. Had she been in India they would have set up an ashram around her. Just on our first meeting I was saying I remember when it first happened to me the body would switch on a light, cook food and the mind would come in later switch on the light,cook food after I had done those things. She understood as that's what's been happening to her. As you go deeper in to This you can function without any thoughts coming in. It's just there to show you what's falling away and what was always in the way.
So many times Ian has said set your website up and writings over and even at work we've had a few new workers one is a couple and they want to set up a website for me but I don't feel the pull. Once you set yourself up label yourself as a teacher the opposite is created. Just like those who want to become a doctor the opposite has to be created. It's all about creating a space not a teacher. If a website is set up that will be made clear as in the early days I saw very little people open to This just seekers around teachers.
A true guru is just there to remove the ignorance, what's in the way. And it's important to see what's being brought to you through that meeting exchange.
In the early days I asked for a true seeker and what was presented was a single mother and son. Her son definitely is open to this space. But she also brought much showing me the limitations of where I was at too. She would move from women's shelter to women's shelter and just up and leave everything behind. Not attached just had a real love to protect her child. I was there to remove their fear and they as a living experience were to show Bach can you let go and move as we do. Only to bow down to them as teachers for showing me the last strands of my attachments. They were, are still teachers for me. For me as much as I shared over this open space they were bringing much to me too as it is all That one essence.
Just as I met my first teacher and I use the word teacher as even though I had the blow out he was there to share over deepen This plus I loved drinking out of his eyes walking with him sharing a cup of tea over many months. My boss couldn't understand back then this sudden shift as in Birmingham they were used to brawling and fighting. Now as he is going within he understands the sharing and movement of being just ordinary and much is shared over in just going within. A story I shared from Papaji on the jewel thief on the train, he hasn't stopped him mediating since. I make him meditate, scan the body and look at his life for where any leakages are. Just as kabir points out in his works. As you have to be dedicated to this and only this. No use going to a sage and then going back in to problem areas again, the many scripts that make up the personality and not the character underneath the innocence that you are. And he's doing well with it all.
I tend to spend more time playing hide and seek, reading stories to my boss's daughter then I do teaching the I-I, or I am That you are That, or self realisation God Realisation. It's more about closing my eyes and counting to twenty. And seeing a young girl hide in the same place and I cook my movement and look elsewhere to find her. But just in that play childlike innocence is sage like. When you go deeper you will understand this play. It's more childlike than teacher. And I'm sure I invented the game Hide and Seek......why children and sages love that game.
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