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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 12:20:13 GMT -5
I posited this question in the OP. What does it MEAN to be human? I have the answer now. I know you said you want this topic focused on the human condition and not on truth realization but the two are inseparable, post seeing. I'm not here to offer advice but just comment on the unique position one finds ones self in, again post seeing. The mind struggles with questions like, What do I do now? It's a massively confusing time because one really doesn't know what the heck to think or even feel. You literally get launched into nowhere with nothing to inform you on anything. The mind doesn't want that kind of freedom but knows it's on it's own, for the first time. Everything you feel so strongly about comes rushing to the forefront and has to be dealt with. It's not the lovely peaceful fluffy fall into true self we all want. It sucks bad. If you found your answer that quickly you're very fortunate because it's a lifetime worth of feelings/thoughts/beliefs/desires that get trashed by the knowing and that hurts, usually for quite some time after. Penny, thank you for offering something genuine. My final Big Bang took place a afew years back, I have described it here and don't want to repeat. It is of no value or interest to me now. So all the things you mention - were indeed part of 'after', but no more. However, Jed was my conductor into understanding exactly what being human means. Not because it was in any way discussed, but through communication and how it shaped up. I wasn't kind to him in a sense of feeding him warm and fuzzy suff. If anything, what I said here - I told him in terms ten times direct, in the course of the past 1.5 years as things began to slowly become clear as to his real Self. Yet.. I resisted the discovery as much as I could. I'm truly not angry, just incredulous mostly at not trusting Self more. He is incredibly charismatic, no doubt, both in his online presence and in physical life. Alone-ness and Death Awareness are my best friends. They make me feel, love Life, for Life is not a rehearsal, no second chances are given. I feel alive, perhaps, for the first time. So I understand Jed's vitality. Just not its manifestion. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 12:34:42 GMT -5
I know you said you want this topic focused on the human condition and not on truth realization but the two are inseparable, post seeing. I'm not here to offer advice but just comment on the unique position one finds ones self in, again post seeing. The mind struggles with questions like, What do I do now? It's a massively confusing time because one really doesn't know what the heck to think or even feel. You literally get launched into nowhere with nothing to inform you on anything. The mind doesn't want that kind of freedom but knows it's on it's own, for the first time. Everything you feel so strongly about comes rushing to the forefront and has to be dealt with. It's not the lovely peaceful fluffy fall into true self we all want. It sucks bad. If you found your answer that quickly you're very fortunate because it's a lifetime worth of feelings/thoughts/beliefs/desires that get trashed by the knowing and that hurts, usually for quite some time after. Penny, thank you for offering something genuine. My final Big Bang took place a afew years back, I have described it here and don't want to repeat. It is of no value or interest to me now. So all the things you mention - were indeed part of 'after', but no more. However, Jed was my conductor into understanding exactly what being human means. Not because it was in any way discussed, but through communication and how it shaped up. I wasn't kind to him in a sense of feeding him warm and fuzzy suff. If anything, what I said here - I told him in terms ten times direct, in the course of the past 1.5 years as things began to slowly become clear as to his real Self. Yet.. I resisted the discovery as much as I could. I'm truly not angry, just incredulous mostly at not trusting Self more. He is incredibly charismatic, no doubt, both in his online presence and in physical life. Alone-ness and Death Awareness are my best friends. They make me feel, love Life, for Life is not a rehearsal, no second chances are given. I feel alive, perhaps, for the first time. So I understand Jed's vitality. Just not its manifestion. So you had a final Big Bang but it wasn't awakening because no one has that, not Buddha, not Jesus. Good God. Are all spirituality forums like this, even Jed's? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 12:42:47 GMT -5
So you had a final Big Bang but it wasn't awakening because no one has that, not Buddha, not Jesus. Good God. Are all spirituality forums like this, even Jed's? I don't know if all forums are like that. I have only ever been on three. One - Jed's. One - this one. And one - a tiny closed group of ten people, which eventually wittled down to three, because we found we all had nothing to say to one another. And then the three went too, there is nothing to say when some reasonable period of time passed 'after', it is all very ordinary. Paradox is what and how this whole big E gig happens and how talking about it is one big Paradox too, no other way to describe it. The nature of Reality itself is Paradox. |
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Post by zin on Mar 29, 2017 3:50:48 GMT -5
"Is there an inner barrier called 'conscience'?" ... From the four books I've read I only remember a bit of the chapter Truman Show (in Theory of Everything). I won't put quotes etc.. but I looked at it again and I think that what is usually described as 'beyond' (in which there is not you, me, self, etc) includes conscience. I know this is some mystical approach.. but better than silence, for me. There is no 'beyond', and nothing is mystical. However, to sell #it# - it has to LOOK mystical. 'Ordinary' has no sellable value, and no one will flock to the 'guru' to listen how normal and absolutely mediocre it really is. Because it is nothing but what you see around. The question is.. what exactly do you see? How far? How deep? To separate the men from the boys one just needs to look at what they do. NOT what they write. Gurus need to shut up and go home. They are monkeys preaching to other monkeys. Go and plough a field or build a house or something... At least it is constructive and real. There IS Self. Ramana, for instance, never stated there is no Self, the opposite. And hey presto! Jed has changed his tune recently on his forum: "All worthwhile answers come from You and You only... even if it is a teacher appearing to you, it's all You. Please note, I am talking about two very different ''yous''.
"No books ever again, I found it much more interesting to read me (hey, no.. I don't mean my books, I mean ''Me''.)
Finally  It took him twenty years to arrive at this. Perhaps, his enveavors in Cam have finally convinced him that his true Self is very much alive and kicking and has gone nowhere in all this time. OK. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 1:08:26 GMT -5
It's not an easy subject. For instance, if an adult woman decides without coercion of any kind to work as a hooker and earn much more money than she could working in a bank, would you say she is a victim? Feel the 'love'. Party girls don't get hurt Can't feel anything, when will I learn I push it down, push it down I'm the one "for a good time call" Phone's blowin' up, ringin' my doorbell I feel the love, feel the love One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink Throw em back, till I lose count I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier I'm gonna live like tomorrow doesn't exist Like it doesn't exist I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night, Feel my tears as they dry I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier And I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Help me, I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight, on for tonight Sun is up, I'm a mess Gotta get out now, gotta run from this Here comes the shame, here comes the shame One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink Throw em back till I lose count I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier I'm gonna live like tomorrow doesn't exist Like it doesn't exist I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night, Feel my tears as they dry I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier And I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Help me, I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight, on for tonight On for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Oh I'm just holding on for tonight On for tonight On for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Oh I'm just holding on for tonight On for tonight On for tonight |
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Post by figgles on Mar 30, 2017 11:32:37 GMT -5
It's not an easy subject. For instance, if an adult woman decides without coercion of any kind to work as a hooker and earn much more money than she could working in a bank, would you say she is a victim? Feel the 'love'. Party girls don't get hurt Can't feel anything, when will I learn I push it down, push it down I'm the one "for a good time call" Phone's blowin' up, ringin' my doorbell I feel the love, feel the love One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink Throw em back, till I lose count I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier I'm gonna live like tomorrow doesn't exist Like it doesn't exist I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night, Feel my tears as they dry I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier And I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Help me, I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight, on for tonight Sun is up, I'm a mess Gotta get out now, gotta run from this Here comes the shame, here comes the shame One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink One two three, one two three drink Throw em back till I lose count I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier I'm gonna live like tomorrow doesn't exist Like it doesn't exist I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night, Feel my tears as they dry I'm gonna swing from the chandelier, From the chandelier And I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Help me, I'm holding on for dear life, Won't look down won't open my eyes Keep my glass full until morning light, 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight, on for tonight On for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Oh I'm just holding on for tonight On for tonight On for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight 'Cause I'm just holding on for tonight Oh I'm just holding on for tonight On for tonight On for tonight Yup. A very good depiction of your point. I think it's fair to say that the majority of folks (male and female) that work in the sex trade, be it stripping, porn, prostitution, whatever, are to some degree 'wounded,' regardless of the reason they cite for doing so. Thus, even one who has chosen to forsake a "respectable" type of job for the purpose of making better money, can't necessarily be said to be doing so, purely by conscious choice. The forces that shape that kind of a decision more often than not, go hand in hand with deep wounds. The men I've spoken with who have no interest in the idea of paying for sex, cite the distastefulness of knowingly taking advantage of a broken spirit to get their jollies.....actually say it wouldn't be very pleasurable at all with that element present...so really, in those cases, no 'jollies' to be had. Seems the ones who are capable of doing so, either have not looked into what shapes such a decision, or they simply do not care. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 23:53:20 GMT -5
Yup. A very good depiction of your point. I think it's fair to say that the majority of folks (male and female) that work in the sex trade, be it stripping, porn, prostitution, whatever, are to some degree 'wounded,' regardless of the reason they cite for doing so. Thus, even one who has chosen to forsake a "respectable" type of job for the purpose of making better money, can't necessarily be said to be doing so, purely by conscious choice. The forces that shape that kind of a decision more often than not, go hand in hand with deep wounds. The men I've spoken with who have no interest in the idea of paying for sex, cite the distastefulness of knowingly taking advantage of a broken spirit to get their jollies.....actually say it wouldn't be very pleasurable at all with that element present...so really, in those cases, no 'jollies' to be had. Seems the ones who are capable of doing so, either have not looked into what shapes such a decision, or they simply do not care. All humans have been damaged during the period of growing up, in many different ways, some more so than others. What one sees around is the reflection of the damage. The men in your life may not have been exposed to the 'joys' of unrestrained availability, an access to satisfying every whim one has. This is why I said to Max 'Come to Cam, and I will show you what you truly are'. Incidentally.. I came across the song above when I watched a video of a performance of ladyboys in a nightclub. The soundtrack reflects accurately the realities here, that's why they chose it to support the performance. |
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Post by figgles on Mar 31, 2017 3:02:10 GMT -5
Yup. A very good depiction of your point. I think it's fair to say that the majority of folks (male and female) that work in the sex trade, be it stripping, porn, prostitution, whatever, are to some degree 'wounded,' regardless of the reason they cite for doing so. Thus, even one who has chosen to forsake a "respectable" type of job for the purpose of making better money, can't necessarily be said to be doing so, purely by conscious choice. The forces that shape that kind of a decision more often than not, go hand in hand with deep wounds. The men I've spoken with who have no interest in the idea of paying for sex, cite the distastefulness of knowingly taking advantage of a broken spirit to get their jollies.....actually say it wouldn't be very pleasurable at all with that element present...so really, in those cases, no 'jollies' to be had. Seems the ones who are capable of doing so, either have not looked into what shapes such a decision, or they simply do not care. All humans have been damaged during the period of growing up, in many different ways, some more so than others. What one sees around is the reflection of the damage. The men in your life may not have been exposed to the 'joys' of unrestrained availability, an access to satisfying every whim one has. This is why I said to Max 'Come to Cam, and I will show you what you truly are'. Incidentally.. I came across the song above when I watched a video of a performance of ladyboys in a nightclub. The soundtrack reflects accurately the realities here, that's why they chose it to support the performance. What they are saying is that If another is not also experiencing the 'joys,' and may actually in fact be engaging from a position of "Oh my God, I actually have to go ahead and do this, even though it disgusts me," they have no interest in that kind of engagement. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 3:44:44 GMT -5
What they are saying is that If another is not also experiencing the 'joys,' and may actually in fact be engaging from a position of "Oh my God, I actually have to go ahead and do this, even though it disgusts me," they have no interest in that kind of engagement. Yes, I understand that, and some indeed may not have an interest in this. But some will. They have not being exposed to some serious temptation. Who knows what would happen then. Many men lost their heads, possessions, faith and whatever else there is to lose - here, in this wonderland. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 4:55:15 GMT -5
I'm sure this "jed" fella would be thrilled to know there's a public forum thread online speaking about his 'abusive nature,' as though it were a hard fact. At some point I will send Jed a link to this discussion. I never had much to hide and have done so in the past. He was always kept informed of my explorations. But not yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 13:42:33 GMT -5
Figgles, I saw it, even if you deleted it real fast.
Have you taken it upon yourself to send the link?
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Post by figgles on Mar 31, 2017 14:55:32 GMT -5
Figgles, I saw it, even if you deleted it real fast.Have you taken it upon yourself to send the link? Yeah, sorry bout that. I posted and then right after, thought, 'why bother'?.... decided that in general, I'm not really enjoying interacting with you.... so deleted it with the intent to just stop this discourse in its entirety. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 20:37:22 GMT -5
Some of you may remember me from a couple of years back. I have no wish to engage in discussions of 'it', 'enlightenment', 'Truth Realisation', 'Self Realisation' and so on. I see very clearly that these are non existent, a fairytale, and anyone who states otherwise - is deluding themselves and others. Enlightenment is only about one thing, and one thing only: Clarity of vision where the light of Conscious Awareness leaves no unseen cobwebs in the dark corners of inner and outer universe. Nothing can be known, but the Knowing is available to absolutely anyone. The true state of seeing things as they are is not subject to permanent bliss or fuzzy warm feeling. Those who have stepped into that space - will manifest their natural tendencies without restraint and in some cases - without decency. This is what G. Krishnamurti called 'the natural state'. In line with the above I have attempted to uncover the real 'Jed' beyond the books. I had no interest in knowing the name, only what/who the person behind the most lucid books was AT CORE. The Realness of him, his natural state, without a mask. Below is one of my last e-mails to Jed. It is self explanatory, the details and the precise facts are of no importance. Living here in SE Asia was an eye opener, something that a Western person will rarely encounter, as the thin superficial veil of civilisation' protects the innocent ignorance of the masses and keeps them in the dark as to their own nature and how it manifests in the creation of the world as we see now. It protects humans from - themselves. I see clearly the reasons for Jed's choices, and some are of an unpalatable to me nature. I have reasons to believe there is more. When Jed said 'All is Lie', he absolutely meant it, the only thing he himself knows to be true. Unfortunately, humans do not read between the lines and do not connect the dots. I have done so, due to my highly analytical Mind, due to inquisitive nature which abhores being a lie to the best of my personal circumstance, due to sharing the same environment as Jed and so understanding its realities, and the dumb luck which is manifestation of my natural Flow. I am placing it here, because as I said in the e-mail the question is bigger than what I can digest on my own. I guess the only question is: what does it mean to be human? ........................ "I am trying hard to adapt a different perspective. Trying to find excuses, ANY kind of excuse. I could say it was just a dance at a girlie bar, I am beginning to understand their workings.... or that there is a girl back in SHV, you just came to PP on business.... or that you went there with only one intent - to listen to the band... But I can call a spade many things: entertainment, a game, role playing - it still remains a spade. The girl was less than half your age, with your hand on her ass.
You went back to the playground clutching the carte blanche.
I sound excrutiatingly negative, because the nature of what has transpired IS the f*cked up Reality of just what it really means to be a human for the majority... Higher state of Consciousness is BEYOND mere Awareness. To be aware of own mortal movements around the playground and to choose not to partake in the said mortal movements - are two different states. I didn't go fully Ramana. I chose to stay, but with limitations placed on me by my Consciousness which just bloody refuses to play the Game. You see.... I am not my Consciousness and not my Awareness. It is beyond those two.
Why can I accept the guys' stories here without flinching and yet feel hollowed out now, looking at you without a mask? Have I set the bar too high for you? But this was only because your books... the BOOKS set the bar high. They are unprecedented pieces of writing, do you hear me? I haven't touched them in three and a half years, after the first read. Now and then I come across passages online, and there isn't a single word in them to which I could say 'no'. ALL of it is complete, finished, all of it is 'yes', despite the progression further in both you and myself. They stand absolutety unblemished. Your Mind has produced them... and then.. all this. I'd absolutely welcomed an average Joe state of being, remember I asked you for NORMALITY once. But this... not every average Joe has it within him to cuddle a girl young enough to be his grandaughter.
All my life I have been so darn good at accepting, at moving on, at forgiving.. cheating 'friends', drinking 'ex', raping peeps, I let go, for they know not what they do... . But they were those 'average joes', and don't get me wrong - we all are, in one way or another. Each contains a spark, together with the divinity extinguisher, ready to vaporise any noble inner movement in the name of survival. But you said this: "I like happiness as much as the next guy, but it’s not happiness that sends one in search of truth. It’s rabid, feverish, clawing madness to stop being a lie, regardless of price, come heaven or hell."
I want to ask you... Have you ever stopped being a lie? Because that's how it started, a drive to stop being a lie, right? What now? This.. what is left of you... is that the truth of you? This question is bigger than what I can digest on my own. This feels just bigger somehow... it feels like... your books are bigger than you.
But your Mind produced them... How can such a highly aware man, with the most alert clever eyes - be thrown at the mercy of the feeble human body? The 'yes' or 'no' answer doesn't matter.. what mattered to me is that you could have the courage to be open.
I have flopped big time... the biggest do far. I want to punish you for being a lie, but at the same time - I can't. Because it's you, a vulnerable crazy mindless clever fool, the Big Pretender whom I am unable to shake out of his pretend boots.
And I am a village idiot.
"They’re looking at the outer Jed McKenna and assuming an inner Jed McKenna. I’m inside Jed McKenna looking out and I can’t really remember what he’s supposed to do or say. It’s all fakery. I’m an actor playing a role for which I feel no connection"
That's why."Return to England now. Your boy needs his Mother. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 21:51:03 GMT -5
Figgles, I saw it, even if you deleted it real fast.Have you taken it upon yourself to send the link? Yeah, sorry bout that. I posted and then right after, thought, 'why bother'?.... decided that in general, I'm not really enjoying interacting with you.... so deleted it with the intent to just stop this discourse in its entirety. What you posted looked something like this: Which suggests you sent the link to Jed. I actually learned something from interacting with you. But yes, no further need. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 23:32:39 GMT -5
Return to England now. Your boy needs his Mother. I don't see how it is your concern. However, I can see why your quoted my entire OP for just two short sentences of your reply. Bakk, some of the things you say make sense. Unfortunately, you also b*llsh*t with people by way of attempting to play games. This is not acceptable to me, so best we do not communicate from now on. Thank you. |
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It took him twenty years to arrive at this. Perhaps, his enveavors in Cam have finally convinced him that his true Self is very much alive and kicking and has gone nowhere in all this time.
