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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 18:55:54 GMT -5
The conditions and conditioning operative in the second after realization are the exact same conditions and conditioning operative in the second before. The machine that takes attention away from the here and now has momentum, and how much, and in which directions it's lumbering, are never the same for any two particular human beings. I don't agree that the conditioning remains the same, or that there is momentum. The conditioning changes based on the realization but that's time-bound, and big mo is 20th century intellects version of "karma", just without the mysticism. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 8, 2016 18:58:17 GMT -5
True story: Two seekers went to visit a relatively well-known ND teacher who had had a big CC experience and subsequently wrote a popular book about enlightenment. When they met him, he immediately pulled a crystal on a string out of his pocket, dangled it in front of them, and said, "You are a level 588 and your companion is a level 543." These words rendered them both speechless with surprise. Later, when they told me about this encounter, they asked, "How would you have responded?" I said, "I would have asked to see the crystal, and if he had handed it to me, I would have thrown it as far away as I possibly could, and asked him, "What level is that?" For those interested in finding the truth, I suggest shifting attention away from ideas to "what is." Crystal throwing is level 243 at best.  I looked at H a little, I think that must have been D H. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 8, 2016 19:09:24 GMT -5
edit: For anyone not wanting to sort through the verbiage, I have highlighted the most pertinent parts, that which links to ZD's bold underlined. (Starting with Quoting: everything is by the author except where specifically noted sdp). I read the following just today (starting second paragraph), for the first time (...) Crazy much, sdp? ... But joke aside, thank you, much appreciated. I will read again, may ask one or two things.  I just quoted it, I didn't write it.  |
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Post by zin on Apr 8, 2016 19:11:42 GMT -5
Crazy much, sdp? ... But joke aside, thank you, much appreciated. I will read again, may ask one or two things. I just quoted it, I didn't write it. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2016 19:30:17 GMT -5
I don't agree that the conditioning remains the same, or that there is momentum. The conditioning changes based on the realization but that's time-bound, and big mo is 20th century intellects version of "karma", just without the mysticism. I know the idea of momentum is a common way of explaining the typical delay between clarity and corresponding changes in the conditioning, but I actually see no momentum, just as I see no habits. The clarity (of mind) IS the change of conditioning. The delay does happen, of course, and as far as I can tell, it's because complex belief structures need to be untangled before mind can even see the relationship between the realization and the beliefs. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2016 19:32:06 GMT -5
Crystal throwing is level 243 at best. I looked at H a little, I think that must have been D H. If I remember right, 600 is enlightenment, so 588 is cookin! |
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 19:57:40 GMT -5
The conditioning changes based on the realization but that's time-bound, and big mo is 20th century intellects version of "karma", just without the mysticism. I know the idea of momentum is a common way of explaining the typical delay between clarity and corresponding changes in the conditioning, but I actually see no momentum, just as I see no habits. The clarity (of mind) IS the change of conditioning. The delay does happen, of course, and as far as I can tell, it's because complex belief structures need to be untangled before mind can even see the relationship between the realization and the beliefs. No point in my estimation arguing this idea, I'm fine with that. The process is different for everyone, and there are as many ordinary minds are there are enlightened peeps. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 19:59:23 GMT -5
I looked at H a little, I think that must have been D H. If I remember right, 600 is enlightenment, so 588 is cookin! Wow. The 2.999999 dealio sounds like a real rip-off now.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 8, 2016 20:44:49 GMT -5
True story: Two seekers went to visit a relatively well-known ND teacher who had had a big CC experience and subsequently wrote a popular book about enlightenment. When they met him, he immediately pulled a crystal on a string out of his pocket, dangled it in front of them, and said, "You are a level 588 and your companion is a level 543." These words rendered them both speechless with surprise. Later, when they told me about this encounter, they asked, "How would you have responded?" I said, "I would have asked to see the crystal, and if he had handed it to me, I would have thrown it as far away as I possibly could, and asked him, "What level is that?" For those interested in finding the truth, I suggest shifting attention away from ideas to "what is." Brewster wrote a little about what brought him to write about the Enneagram energies (the book is actually mostly transcripts from talks). ........and this had the effect of not only dissolving the associations but also lengthening the time that I could be without them. How can you be without associative thoughts? It's like loosing your mind, and if one gives in to that fear, that identification, one stops working immediately. "Who am I?" What was the sense of I was lost, and this is where the panic begins. Instead of stopping work, I stayed in front of the panic; it's a chasm that may be deep but not wide. I brought hydrogen 24 to it, and the panic couldn't stand before this resonance. I was in a state where I enjoyed not thinking, not associating. I didn't know what thinking was. A new way of thinking began to appear. Later this all became part of the basis of my work on the Enneagram, in the sense of the effect it had on me, which it enabled me to have what you would call no-mind, or quiet mind. pg 215 ......I started to have fewer and fewer associations. There were times when I could be without associations at all. I remember driving two and a half hours up to my summer home in Mt. Pleasant without a thought, just watching with this vibration. pg 211 These are results from working with attention and awareness, "methods of work". IOW, I agree with you, but... (I wasn't sure you would read the earlier post or not, I later highlighted some pertinent parts). |
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2016 20:47:58 GMT -5
I know the idea of momentum is a common way of explaining the typical delay between clarity and corresponding changes in the conditioning, but I actually see no momentum, just as I see no habits. The clarity (of mind) IS the change of conditioning. The delay does happen, of course, and as far as I can tell, it's because complex belief structures need to be untangled before mind can even see the relationship between the realization and the beliefs. No point in my estimation arguing this idea, I'm fine with that. The process is different for everyone, and there are as many ordinary minds are there are enlightened peeps.As in, none?  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2016 20:58:47 GMT -5
If I remember right, 600 is enlightenment, so 588 is cookin! Wow. The 2.999999 dealio sounds like a real rip-off now. Well, that's the enlightenment upgrade version, not to be confused with the kinesiologically enlightened scale.  |
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 21:05:52 GMT -5
No point in my estimation arguing this idea, I'm fine with that. The process is different for everyone, and there are as many ordinary minds are there are enlightened peeps.As in, none? ha! ha! No. As in (** muttley snicker **) |
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 21:07:10 GMT -5
Wow. The 2.999999 dealio sounds like a real rip-off now. Well, that's the enlightenment upgrade version, not to be confused with the kinesiologically enlightened scale. Sounds complicated and like there's alot to learn.  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2016 21:31:51 GMT -5
Well, that's the enlightenment upgrade version, not to be confused with the kinesiologically enlightened scale. Sounds complicated and like there's alot to learn. Just shoot for a calibration of 600 and then upgrade to version 2.0. That will keep you going in the Satsang circuit until you get your Master of Enlightenment degree. That's when they start feeding you grapes and stuff.  |
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2016 21:39:05 GMT -5
Sounds complicated and like there's alot to learn. Just shoot for a calibration of 600 and then upgrade to version 2.0. That will keep you going in the Satsang circuit until you get your Master of Enlightenment degree. That's when they start feeding you grapes and stuff. Hmmm, sounds like a plan ..  .. but who feeds the grapes?  |
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I just quoted it, I didn't write it. 
