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Post by Reefs on Nov 25, 2017 9:45:10 GMT -5
I'd always known, in the abstract, up to then, how prayer and meditation are related. I was surprised to find just how deep that particular bunny hole goes, and Father Joe is an insightful dude. You have to try to imagine what it would have been like to renounce your Earthly ambitions and devoted your adult life to serving the spiritual needs of others. That, was really surprising 'cause I'd always had a negative view of clergy as a group because of the power structure they represent. That's my experience as well, if you engage with such people on an individual to individual level instead of seeing them as a representative of an organization then things usually go remarkably well. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 25, 2017 9:51:22 GMT -5
In 'The Unknown Reality' Seth goes really deep into probabilities. I bought it but I fell into 'The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events' while just browsing the first chapters : ) I was curious about Framework 1 and 2, and when I see them in the Contents I decided to read a little. Glad to see that the comments/explanations about their life take place in this book, too. The framework 1 and 2 concept is a lot about leverage and in that sense it is similar to the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey, creating from the outside-in vs. creating from the inside-out. |
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Post by Reefs on Nov 25, 2017 10:06:05 GMT -5
Time
Seth: Time as you understand it is utilized as a method of focus, a divider like a room divider, separating purposes instead of furniture. If you want a "Victorian room" you do not plank it down in the middle of a Spanish arrangement. Instead, you set it aside and frame it with its own decor, as you might in a museum that has separate rooms designating life in past centuries. The rooms in the museum exist at once. You may have to walk down a long corridor, go in a particular room and out the same door, before you can get to the next, adjoining room. The 18th-century drawing room may be next to a 12th-century chapel in this hypothetical museum, but you cannot move through one to the other. You have to go into the corridor first.
(Session 724)
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Post by zin on Dec 4, 2017 2:57:38 GMT -5
I bought it but I fell into 'The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events' while just browsing the first chapters : ) I was curious about Framework 1 and 2, and when I see them in the Contents I decided to read a little. Glad to see that the comments/explanations about their life take place in this book, too. The framework 1 and 2 concept is a lot about leverage and in that sense it is similar to the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey, creating from the outside-in vs. creating from the inside-out. I just started to read the Frameworks part of the book and also listened to a 3 mins video about 'the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey'. Yes they seem to be related. Currently I only like to learn about the 'inner reality' - framework 2. Btw some things happen by themselves, ie there had been things I did not consciously try to solve or had a strong wish for a solution but in some dreams I lived some 'events' about them. It is quite curious for me, there was neither imagination nor an intent and it happened! (not saying that one shouldn't do the exercises in the books) |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 4, 2017 9:37:29 GMT -5
The framework 1 and 2 concept is a lot about leverage and in that sense it is similar to the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey, creating from the outside-in vs. creating from the inside-out. I just started to read the Frameworks part of the book and also listened to a 3 mins video about 'the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey'. Yes they seem to be related. Currently I only like to learn about the 'inner reality' - framework 2. Btw some things happen by themselves, ie there had been things I did not consciously try to solve or had a strong wish for a solution but in some dreams I lived some 'events' about them. It is quite curious for me, there was neither imagination nor an intent and it happened! (not saying that one shouldn't do the exercises in the books) The Seth material is actually very practical stuff. What most don't know is that almost half of the Seth material didn't appear in book form as long as Jane was still alive. Those are the so-called 'deleted sessions' or 'personal sessions' which are very practically oriented, to help Rob and Jane thru their everyday problems. |
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Post by zin on Dec 12, 2017 5:28:17 GMT -5
I just started to read the Frameworks part of the book and also listened to a 3 mins video about 'the A-H concept of action journey vs. emotional journey'. Yes they seem to be related. Currently I only like to learn about the 'inner reality' - framework 2. Btw some things happen by themselves, ie there had been things I did not consciously try to solve or had a strong wish for a solution but in some dreams I lived some 'events' about them. It is quite curious for me, there was neither imagination nor an intent and it happened! (not saying that one shouldn't do the exercises in the books) The Seth material is actually very practical stuff. What most don't know is that almost half of the Seth material didn't appear in book form as long as Jane was still alive. Those are the so-called 'deleted sessions' or 'personal sessions' which are very practically oriented, to help Rob and Jane thru their everyday problems. I want to write endlessly about 'frameworks', but it is about a hundred pages long in the book I am reading  .. I will return when I finish those chapters. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 4, 2018 2:50:58 GMT -5
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Post by zin on Jan 11, 2018 22:04:03 GMT -5
Frameworks
You want to make the material [the Seth material] workable in your world — a natural and quite understandable desire: The proof is in the pudding, and so forth. Yet of course you are also participators in an immense drama in which the main actions occur outside of your world, in those realms from which your world originated — and you are, foremost, natives of those other realms, as each individual is; as each being is.
Those realms are far from lonely, dark, and chaotic. They are also quite different from any concept of nirvana or nothingness. They are composed of ever-spiralling states of existence in which different kinds of consciousnesses meet and communicate. They are not impersonal realms, but are involved in the most highly intimate interactions. Those interactions exist about you all the while, and I would like you in your thoughts to aspire toward them, to try to stretch your perceptions enough so that you become at least somewhat aware of their existence.
These frameworks, while I speak of them separately, exist one within the other, and each one impinges upon the other. To some extent you are immersed in all realities. ... If you can, try to sense this greater context in which you have your being. Your rewards will be astonishing. The emotional realization is what is important, of course, not simply an intellectual acceptance of the idea.
(session 818)
*****
The communication between the inner and outer egos should obviously be as clear and open as possible. As a general rule, the inner ego depends upon your assessment of physical events. Your involvement in the private aspects of your living, and your participation in mass events, has much to do with your estimation of the physical situation, and with your beliefs and desires regarding it. ... A very simple example: If you want to write a letter you do so. There is no conflict between your desires, beliefs, and the execution of the act, so the action itself flows smoothly. If for some reason or another, through a poor assessment of your reality, you believe that such an act is dangerous, then you will hamper the flow between the desire and the execution. The flow of creativity begun by the inner ego will be impeded.
(822)
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Post by zin on Jan 11, 2018 22:16:55 GMT -5
In 'the Individual and the Nature of Mass Events' I read on frameworks and found framework 2 explanations marvelous. (I may post some quotes later). But this, from the quote I've just put on the other thread, "As a general rule, the inner ego depends upon your assessment of physical events." astonished me a lot. Maybe it is a simple and normal fact known by everyone... but still, how can that *vast* world's (fw 2) action or effect (or however it is defined) depend on the outer ego's assessment? I used to think outer ego as something quite ineffective!! |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2018 22:29:24 GMT -5
In 'the Individual and the Nature of Mass Events' I read on frameworks and found framework 2 explanations marvelous. (I may post some quotes later). But this, from the quote I've just put on the other thread, "As a general rule, the inner ego depends upon your assessment of physical events." astonished me a lot. Maybe it is a simple and normal fact known by everyone... but still, how can that *vast* world's (fw 2) action or effect (or however it is defined) depend on the outer ego's assessment? I used to think outer ego as something quite ineffective!! The outer ego is the leading edge (in the A-H sense)! |
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Post by zin on Jan 23, 2018 18:27:12 GMT -5
Beginning of the world and the consciousness units
Consciousness possesses the most unimaginable agility without ever losing any potency. Those units of consciousness, for example, can mix and combine with others to form a million different sequences of memory and desire, of neural achievement and recognition, of structure and design.
You read your own consciousness now in a kind of vertical fashion, identifying only with certain portions of it, and it seems to you that any other organization of perception, any other recognition of identity, would quite necessarily negate your own or render it inoperable. In the beginning of the world there were numberless groupings, however, and affiliations of consciousness, many other organizations of identity that were recognized, as well as the kind of psychological orientation you have now — but your kind of orientation was not the paramount one. While, generally speaking, earth's species existed from the beginning in the forms by which you now know them, consciousness of species was quite different, and all species were much more intimately related through various kinds of identification that have since gone into the underground of awareness.
Initially, then, the world was a dream, and what you think of as waking consciousness was the dreaming consciousness. In that regard the earth's entire environment was built mentally, atom by conscious atom — each atom, again, being initially formed by units of consciousness. I said that these units could operate as entities, and as forces, so we are not speaking of a mental mechanics but of entities in the true meaning of the word: entities of unimaginable creative and psychic properties, purposeful fragments propelled from the infinite mind as that mind was filled with the inspiration that gave light to the world. Those entities, in your terms so ancient, left fragments of themselves in trance, so to speak, that form the rocks and hills, the mountains, the air and the water, and all of the elements that exist on the face of the earth.
Those entities are in trance, in those terms, but their potency is not diminished, and there is constant communication among them always. There is also constant communication between them and you at other levels than those you recognize, so that there is an unending interplay between each species and its environment. There is no place where consciousness stops and the environment begins, or vice versa. Each form of life is created along with each other form — environment and organism in those terms creating each other.
session 892
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Post by zin on Jan 30, 2018 16:48:48 GMT -5
'Self' - 1
During this period that we have labeled as belonging to the dreamers, certain subjective actions took place as the 'structure' of earthly tuned consciousness formed the phenomena of 'the self.' What was needed was a highly focused, precisely tuned physical self that could operate efficiently in a space and time scheme that was being formed along with physical creatures — a self, however, that in one way or another must be supported by realms of information and knowledge of a kind that was basically independent of time and space. A knowledge indispensable, and yet a knowledge that could not be allowed to distract the physical focus.
In one way or another, that inner information had to connect each consciousness on the face of the planet. Earthly creatures must be able to react in a moment, yet the inner mechanisms that made such reactions possible were based upon calculations that could not be consciously kept in mind. In your time scheme, for example, you could never move as quickly as you do if you had to consciously work all the muscles involved in motion — or in speech, or in any such bodily performance. ... Yet you had to have that kind of knowledge, and you had to have it in a way that did not intrude upon your conscious thoughts.
Basically there are no real divisions to the self, but for the sake of explanation we must speak of them in those terms. First of all you had the inner self, the creative dreaming self — composed, again, of units of consciousness, awareized energy that forms your identity, and that formed the identities of the earliest earth inhabitants. These inner selves formed their own dream bodies about them, as previously explained, but the dream bodies did not have to have physical reactions. They were free of gravity and space, and of time. As the body became physical, however, the inner self formed the body consciousness so that the physical body became more aware of itself, of the environment, and of its relationship within the environment (before this could happen, though, the body consciousness was taught to become aware of its own inner environment. …)
So far in our discussion, then, we have an inner self, dwelling primarily in a mental or psychic dimension, dreaming itself into physical form, and finally forming a body consciousness. To that body consciousness the inner self gives 'its own body of physical knowledge', the vast reservoir of physical achievement that it has triumphantly produced. The body consciousness is not 'unconscious', but for working purposes in your terms, the body possesses its own system of consciousness that to some extent, now, is separated from what you think of as your own normal consciousness.
The body's consciousness is hardly to be considered less than your own, or as inferior to that of your inner self, since it represents knowledge from the inner self, and is a part of the inner self's own consciousness — the part delegated to the body. Each cell, then, as I have often said, operates so well in time because it is, in those terms, precognitive. It is aware of the position, health, vitality, of all other cells on the face of the planet. It is aware of the position of each grain of sand on the shores of each ocean, and in those terms it forms a portion of the earth's consciousness. At that level environment, creatures, and the elements of the natural world are all united — a point we will return to quite often. Your intellect as you think of it operates so clearly and precisely, so logically, sometimes so arrogantly because the intellect rides that great thrust of codified, 'ancient', 'unconscious' power — the power of instant knowing that is a characteristic of the body consciousness.
session 894
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Post by zin on Jan 30, 2018 16:59:58 GMT -5
'Self' - 2
Thus far in our discussion, we still have only an inner self and a body consciousness. As the body consciousness developed itself, perfected its organization, the inner self and the body consciousness together performed a kind of psychological double-entendre. The best analogy I can think of is that up to that time the self was like a psychological rubber band, snapping inward and outward with great force and vitality, but without any kind of rigid-enough psychological framework to maintain a physical stance.
The inner self still related to dream reality, while the body's orientation and the body consciousness attained, as was intended, a great sense of physical adventure, curiosity, speculation, wonder — and so once again the inner self put a portion of its consciousness in a different parcel, so to speak. As once it had formed the body consciousness, now it formed a physically attuned consciousness, a self whose desires and intents would be oriented in a way that, alone, the inner self could not be.
The inner self was too aware of its own multidimensionality, so in your terms it gave psychological birth to itself through the body in space and time. It knew itself as a physical creature. That portion of the self is the portion you recognize as your usual conscious self, alive within the scheme of seasons, aware within the designs of time, caught transfixed in moments of brilliant awareness, with civilizations that seem to come and go. That is the self that is alert in the dear preciseness of the moments, whose physical senses are bound to light and darkness, sound and touch. That is the self that lives the life of the body. It is the self that looks outward. It is the self that you call egotistically aware. The inner self became what I refer to as the inner ego. …
You are one self, then, but for operating purposes we will say that you have three parts: the inner self or inner ego, the body consciousness, and the consciousness that you know. These portions, however, are intimately connected. They are like three different systems of consciousness operating together to form the whole. The divisions —the seeming divisions— are not stationary, but change constantly.
***
The fact is, you are physical creatures because you do like to live on earth, you do like the conditions, you do enjoy overall the particular kind of challenge and the particular kind of perception, knowledge and understanding that the earthly environment provides. … Here .. I .. want to mention one facet, and that is the importance of physical sensation, of whatever kind — for the life of the body provides you, among all things, with a life of sensation, of feeling, a spectrum that must include the experience of all possible sensations within its overall range. …
I want to make the point that those attracted to physical life are first and foremost tasters of sensation.
session 894
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Post by zin on Jan 30, 2018 21:05:32 GMT -5
Recently I read some on how the inner self wanted to experience a physical life and formed our usual self. Seth talks as there are no divisions (in self) and everything is simultaneous but I want to tell my ideas in some way.. So I was interested in the latest quotes because of the formation of self subject but it seems my interest went deeper! Because all day I frequently felt like "I am breathing!" "I have a voice!" "I t is nice to walk!" "I am spirit who has a physical body for the time being" must be a 'peep' talk but it is a close expression to how I feel. It is like I 'spiritually know' the breath, for example.. There is no distance between spiritual and physical there but it is curious that I had to read these things (a mental act) to focus on them (and it was not a deliberate focus). Maybe these words of Seth "I want to make the point that those attracted to physical life are first and foremost tasters of sensation" stayed somewhere in me and activated some bells.. In any case, I find books, talks, etc which direct one's attention to the fact of 'being alive' very valuable. |
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Post by zin on Feb 15, 2018 4:20:50 GMT -5
Fetus & genetic dreams
... The genetic system is a far more open one than is usually supposed. It not only contains and conveys information, but it also reacts to information from the physical and cultural worlds. In a way I hope to explain, then, the genetic system also reacts to those beliefs and events that are paramount in any given civilization. Events can trigger genetic activity — not simply through, say, chemical reactions, but through individual and mass beliefs about the safety or lack of it in the world at large.
There are also what I will call genetic dreams, which are inspired directly by genetic triggering. These help form and direct consciousness as it exists in any given individual from before birth.
The fetus dreams. As its physical growth takes place in the womb, so the shaping of its consciousness is also extended by genetic dreams. These particular fetus-oriented dreams are most difficult to describe, for they are actually involved with forming the contours of the individual consciousness. Such dreams provide the subjective understanding from which thoughts are developed, and in those terms complete thoughts are possible before the brain itself is fully formed. It is the process of thinking that helps bring the brain into activity, and not the other way around.
Such thoughts are like, now, electrical patterns that form their own magnets. The ability to conceptualize is present in the fetus, and the fetus does conceptualize. The precise orientation of that conceptualizing, and the precise orientation of the thinking patterns, wait for certain physical triggers received from the parents and the environment after birth, but the processes of conceptualization and of thought are already established. This establishment takes place in genetic dreams. Infants think long before they can speak. Thought must come before language. Language is thought's handmaiden.
The ability to use language is also genetically built-in, through the precise orientation, again, with the physical triggering of the parents' native language. Children learn such languages mentally long before they are physically capable of speaking them; but again, in genetically inspired dreams, children —or rather, infants— practice language. Before such infants hear their parents speak, however, they are in telepathic communication, and even in the fetus genetic dreams involve the coding and interpretation of language. Those dreams themselves inspire the physical formations necessary to bring about their own actualizations.
Genetic dreams of one kind or another continue throughout your lives, whether or not you are consciously aware of them. They were of prime importance in 'man's evolution', as you think of it. They were the source of dreams, mentioned earlier, that sent man on migrations after food, that led him toward fertile land. Those dreams are most closely related to survival in physical existence, and whenever that survival seems threatened such dreams arise to consciousness whenever possible.
session 912
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.. I will return when I finish those chapters.
