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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 16:16:36 GMT -5
How do you know? Why would I believe you saying this?  You don't have to believe me. You can continue to believe that visa is zendancer for as much time as you like, though be honest with yourself when you know for certain that he's not. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 16:27:18 GMT -5
How do you know? Why would I believe you saying this? You don't have to believe me. You can continue to believe that visa is zendancer for as much time as you like, though be honest with yourself when you know for certain that he's not. How can I "know for certain" that what you say is true? |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 16:38:42 GMT -5
Enigma said: "Then you don't understand context." Tenka said: "Everything is God, Cheese, Consciousness or whatever word association one prefers will refer to that specific God context . Casting aside one context for another even though one supposedly entertains the notion that everything is God is highlighting that such a peep doesn't actually relate God being all there is, being every thought / expression there is .. I understand context fine, I understand context relating to God just fine .." Enigma said: "You said "every context refers to God". Lots of contexts don't have anything to do with God. God is not part of the content of those contexts and you can't make it part of them because you figure you know betterer. Maybe you mean, the context of God Donald Trumps all other contexts? You can talk/discuss in a context that you know is not the actual truth. It's okay." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=5527#ixzz4L1TuYXCpTenka did not say, "every context refers to God", Enigma. He said, "Everything is God, Cheese, Consciousness or whatever word association one prefers will refer to that specific God context." Which I read as something along the lines like this, "whatever, dude, Cheese is tasty for those who like to eat cheese." Get your reading and understanding irony skill together, Enigma. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 16:40:32 GMT -5
You don't have to believe me. You can continue to believe that visa is zendancer for as much time as you like, though be honest with yourself when you know for certain that he's not. How can I "know for certain" that what you say is true? You can see for yourself that visa is not zendancer if you will read their words properly and clearly, though that will take time. It doesn't matter whether I say that they are not the same man. Just be honest with yourself why you wanted to think that they were. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 16:42:47 GMT -5
How can I "know for certain" that what you say is true? You can see for yourself that visa is not zendancer if you will read their words properly and clearly, though that will take time. It doesn't matter whether I say that they are not the same man. Just be honest with yourself why you wanted to think that they were. Well....I'm just wondering right now why you even bother to talk about that issue, Bakk. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 22, 2016 16:45:53 GMT -5
Some of it made sense...seems like it would be more fun to blame you than James, though I am not blind to my own intellectual limits...so we can place some of the blame on me too. I've never had an advaita-vedanta teacher, over the years I have read a good deal of what most of the 'big names' have said (most the Indian dudes, and some of the modern Western gang, but I don't know much at all about James). By the time I read them, the bulk of my work was done, so Advaita-vedanta teachers gave me an interesting framework to understand what was already mostly true for me. I also wouldn't describe what I am offering here as non-dual. I can talk that language if I want to, but more often than not I don't see it as helpful. What I offer as a model for existence, is more spiritual than non-dual. At this point I cannot imagine a context in which I would recommend a non-dual teacher to anyone. My opinion is that by and large, it creates more problems than it resolves. Spiritual work on the other hand is practical, and requires one to get their hands dirty in life itself. That's not to say that I see spiritual paradigms as more 'true' than the non-dual paradigm. I didn't quite go so far as to describe 'the world' as an illusion. What I said is that the many is born out OF the illusion of Twoness. Prior to this (illusionary) cut between Creator and Created, there is just undifferentiated existence. Twoness provides the potential for experience through the gift of individuality, which is necessary in order for there to be an experience. Experience itself is as real as it comes, and for all intents and purposes, the world is real. However, when the experience is over, undifferentiated existence is the case, and fundamentally, we are that (I refuse to capitalize the 't' ) The absolute and relative do not fall apart, but their value as concepts and tools should fall apart at some point in the process. They are useful for understanding and integration, but have no business in our day to day experience. Non-duality MAY be useful for challenging the kind of spiritual model I offered there, because it invites us to see through models of existence such as this one. The problem is....well I could talk about that a lot. When I hear or read something like "Creator and Created" I always think of what Terrence McKenna once said: "Give us one miracle for free and the rest we can explain scientifically." And that first miracle is, in my view, the Creator/Creation myth. I'm not saying it's not true. But my question is: Why not just say, "I don't know how everything came into existence. And it seems as if nobody knows that. We all just make up more or less plausible and believable myth's about that miracle." The miracle that "something exists and not just mere nothing" is still a miracle. And those who can't stand it that there is something they can't explain without comming up with the terms God, Creator/Created, pure Consciousness/Awareness, Source, etc....are the ones who then have to explain away that "first miracle" by another miracle. Know what I mean? Once someone on another forum asked the question: "Can it be true that there indeed is karma and reincarnation but without God?" And I think that's a very good question. And the answer to that is, on my side, yes of course. But it requires a certain degree of honesty to admit that we (humans) know very little about our origin. I think we can only get to know something for sure about that first miracle, that something exists and not mere nothing, when we stop engaging in spiritual speculation and instead actively start doing something about the nasty conditions that are currently hindering humanity from becomming fully conscious. Instead of dealing in speculation about our origin we can start "feeding, educating and housing all human beings, not a single one excluded, and then we can explore space. Inner and outer. And peace."  I'm very practical...and I believe that spiritual ideas are only useful if they have good practical value. I'm not interested in the truth of these ideas, as much as the usefulness of them. So as I see it, anything that we speak of as being prior to form...whether we call it god, awareness, consciousness, source, spirit, creator....is a myth. Even the concept of 'nature' is a myth. And they are all myths that can be experienced, very directly, to be true. But the question for me is, which of these myths have practical value? I believe that the idea of a creator does have good practical value depending on the story that accompanies the myth. I believe that this story can facilitate peace, and the feeding and housing of all human beings. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 16:52:29 GMT -5
You can see for yourself that visa is not zendancer if you will read their words properly and clearly, though that will take time. It doesn't matter whether I say that they are not the same man. Just be honest with yourself why you wanted to think that they were. Well....I'm just wondering right now why you even bother to talk about that issue, Bakk. ...well perhaps you can answer that one for yourself! |
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Post by andrew on Sept 22, 2016 16:55:35 GMT -5
Andrew said: "you have, many times. I've asked you about it many times. You are perceiving, and you are Consciousness. If anyone else is perceiving, then they too are Consciousness but having different perceptions to you. That is divided Consciousness." Enigma replied: "It's actually true that Consciousness(singular) is the same Consciousness as the Consciousness in the individual. That doesn't make it divided, rather it makes it one." Andrew said: "The individual is Consciousness expressed. So 'my consciousness' (which is already a poor use of language) is the expression of Consciousness. To locate your individual consciousness at the 'level' of Consciousness itself, is to divide Consciousness. I really don't think you want to do that. In order for you to be able to attend the non-dual awards this year and be in with a chance of an appearing prize, you have to see Consciousness as undivided and undifferentiated." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4132/world?page=5526#ixzz4L163b6nsAndrew, you can't have it both ways. You can't dance on two partys at the same time. IF so called Consciousness is all there is, then there is no other context. That, then, is the only "one" context which is considered as the "absolute" context in which all other contexts "collapse" into. As long as you engage in this kind of lingo, this manner of speaking, this explaination, you will loose the argument when it comes down to contexts. Because in that context, that "Consciousness is all there is" context, you, by definition, say, "there is no other context but this one which is the absolute." As long as you talk about the relative and the absolute the way you do, you can't logically say, "but there are levels of consciousness in Consciousness". That does not make sense, Andy. In your "model" you have to justify violence, like it is being done by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc...as also being Consciousness. There is no way around it, IF you still think that model is usefull.
Where is the difference between saying, "Consciousness is all there is. And I am that" and saying, "everything is God's will"?You have to let go of the God/Consciouness/Creator-Created myth all together. Else you must come up with saying, like you do, "well, it sounds like a contradiction, like a paradox, but it's not....hear me out." And then, yadda-yadda-yadda, you talk for years in a row about the difference between the relative and the absolute without ANY result other than hearing, from others, "well...no...that's not it." Do you understand what I'm saying? I can dance at two parties because of the paradox. It is true that Consciousness is all that is, and it is true that Consciousness is prior to its expressions. They're both true. It is a contradiction and it is a paradox. And it also is not.I wouldn't say I 'justify' violence, but I understand that if it happens, then that is what has to happen. Unless it doesn't. I understand that there is a choice. Unless there isn't. There are always two sides to every story. Unless there aren't.I could parse these ideas forever, and one of the things I do on this forum, is show the opposite way to look at something. Because at the end of the day, ideas aren't important. Unless they are.So then the relevant question is...' do I know what I value, and do I live according to my values?' The answer is yes, and...pretty much (could be improved but still not bad). (p.s ZD and Visa are not the same. Unless they are hehe. No, seriously they are definitely not the same) |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 16:58:43 GMT -5
When I hear or read something like "Creator and Created" I always think of what Terrence McKenna once said: "Give us one miracle for free and the rest we can explain scientifically." And that first miracle is, in my view, the Creator/Creation myth. I'm not saying it's not true. But my question is: Why not just say, "I don't know how everything came into existence. And it seems as if nobody knows that. We all just make up more or less plausible and believable myth's about that miracle." The miracle that "something exists and not just mere nothing" is still a miracle. And those who can't stand it that there is something they can't explain without comming up with the terms God, Creator/Created, pure Consciousness/Awareness, Source, etc....are the ones who then have to explain away that "first miracle" by another miracle. Know what I mean? Once someone on another forum asked the question: "Can it be true that there indeed is karma and reincarnation but without God?" And I think that's a very good question. And the answer to that is, on my side, yes of course. But it requires a certain degree of honesty to admit that we (humans) know very little about our origin. I think we can only get to know something for sure about that first miracle, that something exists and not mere nothing, when we stop engaging in spiritual speculation and instead actively start doing something about the nasty conditions that are currently hindering humanity from becomming fully conscious. Instead of dealing in speculation about our origin we can start "feeding, educating and housing all human beings, not a single one excluded, and then we can explore space. Inner and outer. And peace."
I'm not interested in the truth of these ideas, as much as the usefulness of them. So as I see it, anything that we speak of as being prior to form...whether we call it god, awareness, consciousness, source, spirit, creator....is a myth. Even the concept of 'nature' is a myth. And they are all myths that can be experienced, very directly, to be true. But the question for me is, which of these myths have practical value?
I believe that the idea of a creator does have good practical value depending on the story that accompanies the myth. I believe that this story can facilitate peace, and the feeding and housing of all human beings.Oh yes, I'm very practical too. I'm all for what works. For me, truth is what works. If it makes life more pleasant, enjoyable for every (sentient, sensible and humble) human being, like, for example dental-medicine does, then that is truth for me, by the fact it works for all every time it is applied. In the realm of abstractions, like the spiritual discourse is all about, if one does not have had very...äh...practical experiences, who could have been nasty at times, there is just hot air moved around by those who talk about it. And that is what theology is all about, in my eyes. And theology, nowerdays, comes up with all sorts of stuff, like Eckhard Tolle's "teachings" and the like. I don't think that's of any value whatsoever. It is just some new-age-feel-good-feel-the-pain-body-thingy for those who never experienced real existential threats. For me, you can put all those new-age theologians into a sack and throw them into the ocean. I go for dental-medicine, wine and jewelry all day long. |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 17:07:00 GMT -5
Well....I'm just wondering right now why you even bother to talk about that issue, Bakk. ...well perhaps you can answer that one for yourself! I think I can. Don't ask me why. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 17:11:16 GMT -5
...well perhaps you can answer that one for yourself! I think I can. Don't ask me why. I won't.  |
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 17:12:17 GMT -5
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Post by billfromtexas on Sept 22, 2016 17:21:28 GMT -5
Zendancer said: "We have hundreds of threads dealing with relatively arcane aspects of the spiritual path, so it might be helpful to consolidate important advice in one single thread. For anyone who has had significant insights into existential issues, what advice would you give sincere seekers concerning how to find what they are searching for? Or, what advice given by spiritual teachers or sages have you read that you think would be helpful? I'll start off the list, and others can add to it: 1. Become aware of mindtalk (the internal dialogue), and investigate how it influences your ideas, feelings, and actions. 2. Question the validity of all your ideas about the world. 3. Spend time being silent, attentive, and still. 4. Learn to look without naming or thinking about what you are looking at. 5. Regularly spend some time alone in nature (even if its only a walk in a park). 6. Learn to meditate, and spend some time in meditation each day. 7. Contemplate, rather than think about, what you want to know. 8. Learn to live without expectations or judgments regarding either other people or yourself. 9. Become psychologically present as often as possible. 10. Keep an open mind. 11. Be honest with yourself, and admit what you don't know. 12. Be skeptical of any claims that you haven't verified for yourself. 13. Trust yourself, and have faith that you can find the truth. 12. Be skeptical of any claims that you haven't verified for yourself." Sunshine said: "though in itself good advice (as are most other points here) YOU can NEVER verify MY experience. If you have no BS detector (which i DO have) you can never trust anybody´s experience unless it matches yours. for someone like you, who is cataloguing other peoples experiences, that is a major drawback. I have noticed that you have so far ignored almost everything i have posted here on STF regarding spiritual experience, even though i spoke the truth. which tells me you are rather random and prejudiced. which is a pity. i suggest you make your own BS detector. be well " Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4709/suggestions-sincere-seekers?page=3#ixzz4L1eQVZ4SSunshine, no matter how much I think Zendancer is just a .... you name it, I think what you said here, is just sooo freaking borderlinish in nature. I wish that Sri Aurobindo ashram dude would have also cured you of that kind of personality disposition. But that's not gonna happen, I guess. Nevertheless, I still think in some areas you have the heart in the right place. "Please don't let me be missunderstood." |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 22:18:11 GMT -5
I know very clearly why he blocked Anja and also as soon as Anja has been banned Anja has created a thread where she stated that she had been banned by You, But I knew very clearly that you hadn't done that and also I know that that was done by zendancer. You may ask how I know that? Because I know the way you move and also I know the way zendancer move! Here a true story...about what happend about two weeks ago: I was walking along a street in my neigborhood at night. I heard steps behind me. I got that nasty old feeling...as a woman...when hearing someone is walking behind me. As a young woman I sometimes was scared when that happend since me and my parents lived in an area where it is almost a bit rural. Anyway...as I was hearing thoses steps that old fear came up and I thought, "well, who ever that may be, if he want to rape me, I might even enjoy it nowerdays, since I'm 53 and have had no sex for about 5 years. And then I laught out loud about this thought. About a minute later a black guy passed me and smiled. He asked, "why did you laugh?" And I said, "ohh...just because." And he asked, "wanna have a beer?" And I said, "nah...but thanks for asking." And he said, "my name is Rubin. What's your name?" I said, "my name is Anja." And he said, "have a nice evening, Anja." And I said, "you too, Rubin." Why do I tell you this? Well...just before I heard these steps behind me, I thought about you, Gopal.  I used to think of yogurt until he went ape-shit about Gays. He's not much of a hugga. Once I had two lassies at the Hari-Krishna cafe here and found my tummy turning. Have you ever trained in the martial-arts Anja? (just in case the rapist tries to tie you down)  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 23:02:07 GMT -5
Good night Anja. In Germany it's not already bed-time for adults, Gopal. It's after-dinner-time, huggin'n'kissin' your kids good night time. I know , I have a very close German friend! |
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