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May 23, 2024 23:11:48 GMT -5
Post by Gopal on May 23, 2024 23:11:48 GMT -5
For me, mind is the sequence of thoughts which are arising. So, mind is not self-identifying, the creator of the mind is mistaking himself to be a person or the one who reside inside this body. When one knows that Inner Creates the Outer or everything, then he starts to seek the solution within himself. When he fights with another person, he knows that he himself created that situation for himself. So, he would not find fault in others (Even if the anger expressed, he knows internally that he is the reason for that situation), he would look at the solution as to how he created or how that particular situation arises from himself. Then he reaches the clarity, and then he effortlessly changes the situation through the power of Infinite. Indeed, a lot of stuff almost seems moot if the concept of Infinite has been realized. But on occasion, stuff appears that might pique the mind's interest. Yes, mind is a sequence of thought, and structures of beliefs, fired and wired, are its castles. Without mind, there is neither self nor creator, outer nor inner, others, etc ... the labeling of all dualities within Infinity. Reason, I'd suggest, is born of this same movement of thought, but seeks to delve deeper into the flow of abstractions of thought to mine cause/effect relationships. The hows and whys tend to crop up and pile up in the mind play. Perhaps that is what SDP is alluding to enjoying exploring as 'where the rubber hits the road'. The Peace still remains, unchanged. That's all fine and dandy if one has realized with clarity (stillness, silence, emptiness, khora, etc) that's right Here, right Now, prior to it all, stabilized in the Knowing. --- And so castles made of sand fall/melt/slip into the sea eventually ~J. HendrixPeace Realizing of rollercoaster is important in one's life and that's helps one to see how everything is arising from inner. I guess that's missing in your case. Rollercoaster is realized. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 24, 2024 7:07:13 GMT -5
OK, perhaps you can share your understanding of de Chardin, his take on Omega, and how it might point to or touch on what is Infinite/Eternal. I do not know enough about him to comment much further, so maybe the exploration might be of some benefit. It may be that he was eloquently waxing poetic based on experience or knowledge, without the realization of Being. THIS is inclusive of such a spiritual world (not born of it, but gives rise to it, so to speak). IT'S right Here, right Now, without beginning or end. Last paragraph, indubitably. OK, then.  |
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May 24, 2024 7:26:57 GMT -5
Post by someNOTHING! on May 24, 2024 7:26:57 GMT -5
OK, perhaps you can share your understanding of de Chardin, his take on Omega, and how it might point to or touch on what is Infinite/Eternal. I do not know enough about him to comment much further, so maybe the exploration might be of some benefit. It may be that he was eloquently waxing poetic based on experience or knowledge, without the realization of Being. THIS is inclusive of such a spiritual world (not born of it, but gives rise to it, so to speak). IT'S right Here, right Now, without beginning or end. Body of Christ .. "I am the alpha and the omega". Time, is "through a glass darkly". "Socrates proceeded: I thought that as I had failed in the contemplation of true existence, I ought to be careful that I did not lose the eye of my soul; as people may injure their bodily eye by observing and gazing on the sun during an eclipse, unless they take the precaution of only looking at the image reflected in the water, or in some similar medium. That occurred to me, and I was afraid that my soul might be blinded altogether if I looked at things with my eyes or tried by the help of the senses to apprehend them. And I thought that I had better have recourse to ideas, and seek in them the truth of existence. I dare say that the simile is not perfect - for I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existence through the medium of ideas, sees them only "through a glass darkly," any more than he who sees them in their working and effects. However, this was the method which I adopted: I first assumed some principle which I judged to be the strongest, and then I affirmed as true whatever seemed to agree with this, whether relating to the cause or to anything else; and that which disagreed I regarded as untrue." ~Socrates, in Plato's PhaedoIt is indeed strangely and fascinatingly interesting how so many core principles of Christianity can be found in Bronze Age myths (Dionysus/Orphic bible/Homer > Jesus) and Platonic arguments (Plato > Paul). Have enjoyed my brief stints of philological contemplation during my explorations of the Greeks. Of course, it often ends up in the Socratic Paradox at which point it's just dropped and a nice hike ensues where it all fades into the beauty of Spring. 😍 “For my part, as I went away, I reasoned with regard to myself: “I am wiser than this human being. For probably neither of us knows anything noble and good, but he supposes he knows something when he does not know, while I, just as I do not know, do not even suppose that I do. I am likely to be a little bit wiser than he in this very thing: that whatever I do not know, I do not even suppose I know.” ~Socrates, in Plato’s Apology |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 24, 2024 7:47:15 GMT -5
Indeed, a lot of stuff almost seems moot if the concept of Infinite has been realized. But on occasion, stuff appears that might pique the mind's interest. Yes, mind is a sequence of thought, and structures of beliefs, fired and wired, are its castles. Without mind, there is neither self nor creator, outer nor inner, others, etc ... the labeling of all dualities within Infinity. Reason, I'd suggest, is born of this same movement of thought, but seeks to delve deeper into the flow of abstractions of thought to mine cause/effect relationships. The hows and whys tend to crop up and pile up in the mind play. Perhaps that is what SDP is alluding to enjoying exploring as 'where the rubber hits the road'. The Peace still remains, unchanged. That's all fine and dandy if one has realized with clarity (stillness, silence, emptiness, khora, etc) that's right Here, right Now, prior to it all, stabilized in the Knowing. --- And so castles made of sand fall/melt/slip into the sea eventually ~J. HendrixPeace Realizing of rollercoaster is important in one's life and that's helps one to see how everything is arising from inner. I guess that's missing in your case. Rollercoaster is realized. Oh, dear brother, the roller coaster is indeed an important thing to realize. However, is it equally or more important to realize what this 'inner' is? In doing so, would it not give one the most expansive view and understanding OF said roller coaster? The roller coaster is a recount of The Argument of Opposites (see Plato's Phaedo), and it is a great one to penetrate. high - low black - white this - that This - this Self - self mind - Mind person - God Realization - realization do - Done Nothing - everything thing - Infinite 0 - 1 KNOW where the roller coaster starts and ends, right HERE, right NOW. PEACE |
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May 24, 2024 8:09:21 GMT -5
Post by Gopal on May 24, 2024 8:09:21 GMT -5
Realizing of rollercoaster is important in one's life and that's helps one to see how everything is arising from inner. I guess that's missing in your case. Rollercoaster is realized. Oh, dear brother, the roller coaster is indeed an important thing to realize. However, is it equally or more important to realize what this 'inner' is? In doing so, would it not give one the most expansive view and understanding OF said roller coaster? The roller coaster is a recount of The Argument of Opposites (see Plato's Phaedo), and it is a great one to penetrate. high - low black - white this - that This - this Self - self mind - Mind person - God Realization - realization do - Done Nothing - everything thing - Infinite 0 - 1 KNOW where the roller coaster starts and ends, right HERE, right NOW. PEACE Life is a rollercoaster; this much I know, and I have seen it clearly. After moments of happiness, there are inevitable lows. Everything around me moves to confirm this rollercoaster. The heights and depths we experience determine the peace in our lives—what else truly matters? |
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Post by laughter on May 24, 2024 8:20:03 GMT -5
Body of Christ .. "I am the alpha and the omega". Time, is "through a glass darkly". "Socrates proceeded: I thought that as I had failed in the contemplation of true existence, I ought to be careful that I did not lose the eye of my soul; as people may injure their bodily eye by observing and gazing on the sun during an eclipse, unless they take the precaution of only looking at the image reflected in the water, or in some similar medium. That occurred to me, and I was afraid that my soul might be blinded altogether if I looked at things with my eyes or tried by the help of the senses to apprehend them. And I thought that I had better have recourse to ideas, and seek in them the truth of existence. I dare say that the simile is not perfect - for I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existence through the medium of ideas, sees them only "through a glass darkly," any more than he who sees them in their working and effects. However, this was the method which I adopted: I first assumed some principle which I judged to be the strongest, and then I affirmed as true whatever seemed to agree with this, whether relating to the cause or to anything else; and that which disagreed I regarded as untrue." ~Plato, in PhaedoIt is indeed strangely and fascinatingly interesting how so many core principles of Christianity can be found in Bronze Age myths (Dionysus/Orphic bible/Homer > Jesus) and Platonic arguments (Plato > Paul). Have enjoyed my brief stints of philological contemplation during my explorations of the Greeks. Of course, it often ends up in the Socratic Paradox at which point it's just dropped and a nice hike ensues where it all fades into the beauty of Spring. “For my part, as I went away, I reasoned with regard to myself: “I am wiser than this human being. For probably neither of us knows anything noble and good, but he supposes he knows something when he does not know, while I, just as I do not know, do not even suppose that I do. I am likely to be a little bit wiser than he in this very thing: that whatever I do not know, I do not even suppose I know.” ~Socrates, in Plato’s ApologyThe hike ... is the way, my friend! (not news to you, I know...) Nice to see the full text of the not-knowing quote. Similar to reading the full Heart Sutra or this, for instance (that talk is even more interesting if you read the entire dialog .. he was talking to an irritable doooooofus guy). I'm not surprised that an idealist philosopher would express reservations about turning away from mind. And I can even advocate for that position.  (to a point) ... intellect applied to infinity leads to all sorts of absurd paradoxes. This is one of my favorites. Infinity is actually an active area of research in mathematics. This is because putting infinity in a box has all sorts of practical uses! who knew!  .. but anyways, what Soc's simile about looking at the Sun evokes for me a feeling of love so deep that it aches. And not because of betrayal, but because the feeling is just so intense - not in a passionate way, but rather, the potential depth of poignancy one can feel in loving with no brakes, no limits, no lines, in a direct experience of an intimacy too great to measure. But existentially speaking, in the inquiry for the truth, Adyashanti put it quite well ... paradox is the "edge" he was referring to. As an aside, it doesn't surprise me that the Bible has all sorts of uncited influences. Einstein never won a Nobel prize for special relativity because he failed to cite Lorenz. The Romans were never concerned with such nicety, being the social psychopaths they were, after all. I think the issue is ultimately only an issue because people expect the Bible to be a wellspring of independent creativity because it is the "direct word of God". |
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May 24, 2024 8:23:16 GMT -5
Post by laughter on May 24, 2024 8:23:16 GMT -5
Last paragraph, indubitably. OK, then. kant .. stop ... laughing ..... please ....... send .. help! |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 24, 2024 9:00:34 GMT -5
Oh, dear brother, the roller coaster is indeed an important thing to realize. However, is it equally or more important to realize what this 'inner' is? In doing so, would it not give one the most expansive view and understanding OF said roller coaster? The roller coaster is a recount of The Argument of Opposites (see Plato's Phaedo), and it is a great one to penetrate. high - low black - white this - that This - this Self - self mind - Mind person - God Realization - realization do - Done Nothing - everything thing - Infinite 0 - 1 KNOW where the roller coaster starts and ends, right HERE, right NOW. PEACE Life is a rollercoaster; this much I know, and I have seen it clearly. After moments of happiness, there are inevitable lows. Everything around me moves to confirm this rollercoaster. The heights and depths we experience determine the peace in our lives—what else truly matters? Look at a pendulum. The swing back and forth is like a rollercoaster, but a pendulum is attached to a single unmoving point. You can find that central unmoving point. |
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May 24, 2024 19:26:43 GMT -5
Post by andrew on May 24, 2024 19:26:43 GMT -5
Surrender once and for all and be done with the desire. So long as the sense of being the doer remains, desire does also. Therefore, the ego remains. But once this goes, the Self shines forth in its purity.
Ramana Maharshi
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May 25, 2024 3:33:07 GMT -5
Post by Gopal on May 25, 2024 3:33:07 GMT -5
Life is a rollercoaster; this much I know, and I have seen it clearly. After moments of happiness, there are inevitable lows. Everything around me moves to confirm this rollercoaster. The heights and depths we experience determine the peace in our lives—what else truly matters? Look at a pendulum. The swing back and forth is like a rollercoaster, but a pendulum is attached to a single unmoving point. You can find that central unmoving point. Yes, Rollercoaster moves in the face of Consciousness. |
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Post by zendancer on May 25, 2024 9:51:45 GMT -5
Life is a rollercoaster; this much I know, and I have seen it clearly. After moments of happiness, there are inevitable lows. Everything around me moves to confirm this rollercoaster. The heights and depths we experience determine the peace in our lives—what else truly matters? Look at a pendulum. The swing back and forth is like a rollercoaster, but a pendulum is attached to a single unmoving point. You can find that central unmoving point. Yes indeed. Better to find that point than keep one's attention on the oscillation. Staying at that point removes any concern about the oscillation. |
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May 28, 2024 18:24:59 GMT -5
Post by someNOTHING! on May 28, 2024 18:24:59 GMT -5
Oh, dear brother, the roller coaster is indeed an important thing to realize. However, is it equally or more important to realize what this 'inner' is? In doing so, would it not give one the most expansive view and understanding OF said roller coaster? The roller coaster is a recount of The Argument of Opposites (see Plato's Phaedo), and it is a great one to penetrate. high - low black - white this - that This - this Self - self mind - Mind person - God Realization - realization do - Done Nothing - everything thing - Infinite 0 - 1 KNOW where the roller coaster starts and ends, right HERE, right NOW. PEACE Life is a rollercoaster; this much I know, and I have seen it clearly. After moments of happiness, there are inevitable lows. Everything around me moves to confirm this rollercoaster. The heights and depths we experience determine the peace in our lives—what else truly matters? As a matter of perspectives, consider the perception of the gravity of the roller coaster ride: a) sitting on the roller coaster for the first time as it goes up, down, and all around, b) from the side as an observer of the whole ride, peeps on the ride, listening to the screams/enjoyment, and c) from above with an attitude of "been there, done that, and this is where it gets interesting". Which one is more drama-tic, and which one is more conducive to peace? |
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May 28, 2024 18:58:11 GMT -5
Post by someNOTHING! on May 28, 2024 18:58:11 GMT -5
"Socrates proceeded: I thought that as I had failed in the contemplation of true existence, I ought to be careful that I did not lose the eye of my soul; as people may injure their bodily eye by observing and gazing on the sun during an eclipse, unless they take the precaution of only looking at the image reflected in the water, or in some similar medium. That occurred to me, and I was afraid that my soul might be blinded altogether if I looked at things with my eyes or tried by the help of the senses to apprehend them. And I thought that I had better have recourse to ideas, and seek in them the truth of existence. I dare say that the simile is not perfect - for I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existence through the medium of ideas, sees them only "through a glass darkly," any more than he who sees them in their working and effects. However, this was the method which I adopted: I first assumed some principle which I judged to be the strongest, and then I affirmed as true whatever seemed to agree with this, whether relating to the cause or to anything else; and that which disagreed I regarded as untrue." ~Plato, in PhaedoIt is indeed strangely and fascinatingly interesting how so many core principles of Christianity can be found in Bronze Age myths (Dionysus/Orphic bible/Homer > Jesus) and Platonic arguments (Plato > Paul). Have enjoyed my brief stints of philological contemplation during my explorations of the Greeks. Of course, it often ends up in the Socratic Paradox at which point it's just dropped and a nice hike ensues where it all fades into the beauty of Spring. “For my part, as I went away, I reasoned with regard to myself: “I am wiser than this human being. For probably neither of us knows anything noble and good, but he supposes he knows something when he does not know, while I, just as I do not know, do not even suppose that I do. I am likely to be a little bit wiser than he in this very thing: that whatever I do not know, I do not even suppose I know.” ~Socrates, in Plato’s ApologyThe hike ... is the way, my friend! (not news to you, I know...) Nice to see the full text of the not-knowing quote. Similar to reading the full Heart Sutra or this, for instance (that talk is even more interesting if you read the entire dialog .. he was talking to an irritable doooooofus guy). I'm not surprised that an idealist philosopher would express reservations about turning away from mind. And I can even advocate for that position. (to a point) ... intellect applied to infinity leads to all sorts of absurd paradoxes. This is one of my favorites. Infinity is actually an active area of research in mathematics. This is because putting infinity in a box has all sorts of practical uses! who knew! .. but anyways, what Soc's simile about looking at the Sun evokes for me a feeling of love so deep that it aches. And not because of betrayal, but because the feeling is just so intense - not in a passionate way, but rather, the potential depth of poignancy one can feel in loving with no brakes, no limits, no lines, in a direct experience of an intimacy too great to measure. But existentially speaking, in the inquiry for the truth, Adyashanti put it quite well ... paradox is the "edge" he was referring to. As an aside, it doesn't surprise me that the Bible has all sorts of uncited influences. Einstein never won a Nobel prize for special relativity because he failed to cite Lorenz. The Romans were never concerned with such nicety, being the social psychopaths they were, after all. I think the issue is ultimately only an issue because people expect the Bible to be a wellspring of independent creativity because it is the "direct word of God". Nice links, Laughs. The extended Niz quote is always a nice one to go back to on occasion. I also liked the Adya quote on the utility of the mind for rational thought and the precipice. It aligns with some of what UG was going on about in his discussion with BK in the recent vid. I’ll try to find a way around the paywall to get to the “Big brain Theory” later. The math video will take me some time to absorb, as such mathematical principles and logic don’t come so natural for this mind, hehe. But it is amazing what productivity they are and have been able to squeeze out of studies in quantum, infinity, and the like. Indeed, I can appreciate Al’s ‘spooky’ comment. Yeah, the re-approaching of the Greeks, early Christianity, and the like is of interest at times for several reasons, mostly because of how they are interwoven into the tapestry of culture and drama. Interestingly, the sociopathy and psychopathy at play then is very much still at play now, and the myths seem to point to a lot of the structure of how that plays out. As such, I think it's more than simply what people expect the Bible to be after two thousand years of what it has been proclaimed to be. If it's a distillation of some of the world's greatest hits, then so be it. If it was simply devised and/or used as a tool to unite and expand the Graeco-Roman empire during a tumultuous period, welp, I guess that's fine, too. The myths of journeys into the underworld, the death-rebirth, cause-effect, wisdom spins, etc make for interesting readings to some minds. It is interesting to see how the I AM/One does show up in its different contexts in the Bible, and perhaps that is the general idea of the Trinity, and people mostly miss it, deny it, or possibly declare it blasphemy. Dunno. It's rare for a pastor/priest to give it much air time, but the allusions to it that have cropped up in a few sermons have indeed caught my ear on occasion. Having grown up in an Eastern European Roman Catholic tradition, I have a bit of a softish spot for them (in general), and I always thought it was kinda cool how it tended to adapt to local contexts. It was much more appealing that the Evangelical character that I have a decent amount of experience and interaction with. The RCs tend to have a bit more of an attitude to otherness similar to Herodotus, so maybe that made it into the mix. Nice take on the the Sun! I assume you have read a bit of "Analogy of the Sun" while exploring the "Allegory of the Cave". It is very cool stuff for contemplation, which also tends to sidestep some of the our myths versus your myths trappings, though many people tend to roll their eyes at philosophy anyway.  |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 28, 2024 19:09:47 GMT -5
OK, then. kant .. stop ... laughing ..... please ....... send .. help! One of the Cohen brother's finest movies! I replied to SDP with it, hoping he, as a movie buff, might comment on it. The Cohen brothers were deeply influenced by William Faulkner, and I sometimes get the feeling SDP has a Faulkneresque bent to him. WF was a gifted writer who constantly evoked some confusion as his explorations tinkered with the twists of the human mind. “Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.” ― William Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury“We must be free not because we claim freedom, but because we practice it.” ― William Faulkner, Essays, Speeches & Public Letters“I feel like a wet seed wild in the hot blind earth.” ― William Faulkner, As I Lay Dying “People to whom sin is just a matter of words, to them salvation is just words too.” ― William Faulkner, As I Lay DyingI had some potential replies in mind, but maybe it was taken in a different light. |
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Post by laughter on May 28, 2024 21:21:57 GMT -5
kant .. stop ... laughing ..... please ....... send .. help! One of the Cohen brother's finest movies! I replied to SDP with it, hoping he, as a movie buff, might comment on it. The Cohen brothers were deeply influenced by William Faulkner, and I sometimes get the feeling SDP has a Faulkneresque bent to him. WF was a gifted writer who constantly evoked some confusion as his explorations tinkered with the twists of the human mind. “Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.” ― William Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury“We must be free not because we claim freedom, but because we practice it.” ― William Faulkner, Essays, Speeches & Public Letters“I feel like a wet seed wild in the hot blind earth.” ― William Faulkner, As I Lay Dying “People to whom sin is just a matter of words, to them salvation is just words too.” ― William Faulkner, As I Lay DyingI had some potential replies in mind, but maybe it was taken in a different light. Interesting quotes. As an engineering Philistine I am ignorant of the man, other than the name itself.  .. sad for us techno's, really, reading the initial google results. As for the other dialog about the Greeks etc ... it's the kind of conversation that beer and a starlit night were made for! .. the English translation of the math vid is: "counterintuitively, not all infinities are created equal, in fact, some infinities fit inside of other infinities " .. in a way, it's the mental hyjinx of putting infinity in a box, and the only reason I don't dismiss it as such is that it has real-word applications. |
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(to a point) ... intellect applied to infinity leads to all sorts of absurd paradoxes. 
.. but anyways, what Soc's simile about looking at the Sun evokes for me a feeling of love so deep that it aches. And not because of betrayal, but because the feeling is just so intense - not in a passionate way, but rather, the potential depth of poignancy one can feel in loving with no brakes, no limits, no lines, in a direct experience of an intimacy too great to measure.
.. sad for us techno's, really, reading the initial google results.