quotes

[Reefs]

"Believing that what you do not know cannot exist is the crown of ignorance."

— Jaggi Vasudev

[sharon]

“On social media, fools feel clever by mocking bigger fools, and scoundrels feel virtuous by condemning bigger scoundrels. We feel good simply by portraying others as worse.

In an age of anxiety and inaction, many seek self-esteem not in their own abilities, but in other's failures.”

Gurwinder Bhogal

[Reefs]

“If you can actually count your money, you are not really a rich man.”

— J.Paul Getty

[someNOTHING!]

Jan 13, 2024 7:22:52 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Jan 9, 2024 8:19:00 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

No. Intelligence is Plotinus’ Intellect/Nous (as in 'God's Mind) in how I see it. People can get a sense of that, no doubt. The break with any previously understood notion of reality is just above that Intellect/Nous. EVERYTHING collapses into The One/NOTHING. How I’d express it is that Intelligence is of the highest, most inclusive substrate of order, and there’s a lot of super-sensory Being involved there. Don’t get me wrong, purddy wingding cool, so I let a lot of that stuff in with respect to what is infinitely potential. I just wouldn’t say it’s The One (per Plotinus). It’s not a judgment in that it is wrong, bad, lacking, etc, just not IT, with respect to the depth of discussions we allow here on the board. I typically would not go chatting about this stuff too much in a public domain that is mostly ordered by the consensual trance paradigm. Not wise, unless of course I needed a rent-free room.

I have assumed you had a glimpse of IT back in 1975ish, but have only identified (impersonally) with said Nous/Intelligence that you felt and perhaps which nudged you past the dark night of the Soul (see Plotinus). It is my supposition that there was a lot of emotional baggage in what was dropped, and perhaps there is something of it that was worth holding on (guilt, for example, has a weasely way of finding its way back into a mix,,, much like 'survivors' guilt after a major accident involving a death). Perhaps it was a peak experience, dunno. But using it as a reference point, if you were to settle into that memory and take a good look around for what was there prior to mind (that noticed and remembers a dreamlike state playing out before its eye via sense/feeling), prior to Nous/Soul that also might inform the mind, you might notice the complete absence of person/thing. Right Here, right Now.

It might be why you like to say more/further/etc. Dunno.

You're trying to pour everything into the ND mold, it doesn't work that way. Tenka, for example, has talked about the levels Soul or Nous (spirit), the people he is talking to, for example ZD, have no reference for soul or spirit, inavalan also. Plotinus is talking about vibratory levels. And on the return path you can't skip any levels. You have to ~make real~ each level upward, for yourself. Let's arbitrarily assign a number to the vibratory levels. And let's double the rate of vibration of each successive level, a low number for faster, a higher number for slower vibratory level. So the One, the highest, Source, the Absolute of Plotinus would be the lowest density of matter (there is no dualism as written about by Descartes), the highest rate of vibration. So the second level moving down, emanation, Nous, would be 2. Next level, Soul, would be 4, our level, 8. So tenka, for example, is discussing levels 4 and 2. What tenka is asking, how can you say you have a realization of The One, and at the same time you don't know anything about levels 4 and 2? It's an excellent question. Now, inavalan has a model of the vibratory levels 4 and 2, but I've asked several times, do you have any actual experience of levels 4 and 2, or are you just describing a model? He hasn't answered.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to ~live in~ the model of Plotinus, you have to make-it-not-a-model, but reality. You can't just say, oh, I've had a realization of The One.

You see, sdp is not interested in a ND Realization of The One. sdp is interested in moving up (Richard Rose's ladder, which is essentially the enneads of Plotinus, his description), making real every moment of this world, #8, which is the way to make real the next vibratory level, #4. We have a physical body to live in this physical world. A body does not come ready-made, to live in the next vibratory level, #4. The path upward is about actually constructing a body, of the vibratory level, of each successive vibratory level. And, again, you can't skip levels. You can't jump from 8 to 2. So, for sdp, to have a ND Realization of The One, is a goal, shown, to be existentially achieved. The physical body is a chemical laboratory which is necessary to synthesize a body of the next higher vibratory level. This is what alchemy was all about, it wasn't about turning actual lead into actual gold, that was but an outer symbol according to the law of correspondence.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to work within his model the way he meant it. ....And the further, I have kept mentioning, is the vibratory level, 4. If you don't have reference for it, that's means ~you've never been there~. That's why Realization is not my language, existential experience is my language.

So why can you only-have a ND realization of The One? Because you can't experience it, without first traversing levels 4 and then 2.

And so then, this "model" brings us all together, everybody. But it's a completely arbitrary model. It's *models* the real. That's why, First you have to row a little boat. Plotinus has a wonderful, magnificent model, but it isn't really a model. It's a ~game plan~. Somebody experiences those levels, and then brings back the ashes, the dust, the chards, the whisper, the scent, the shadow. It's a more extensive version of Plato's allegory of the cave, which isn't an allegory. To have a ND Realization, and then go back to your old life, is like Esau selling his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of beans. A glimpse is to be treated as an irresistible and irrevocable motivation, to want to live there. A ND Realization, it seems to me, as it is written about, is like a Moon mission, we planted a flag, and haven't been back in 50 years. But not even that, we had a realization of what going to the Moon, is like.
Just to add a note. Seth would be of the Soul vibratory level, 4. Seth2 would be of the Nous vibratory level 2. Loosely speaking.

What Gurdjieff taught was how to traverse the levels, one person at a time. And then when somebody had gotten it sufficiently, he let them teach, and then likewise. A brief reference. The Mount of Transfiguration was a glimpse, for Peter, James and John. It was just ordinary life for Jesus. Peter, James and John saw Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah. Look at what Peter said. Oh, wow!, this is f-ing fantastic good-God-almighty, let's just pitch a tent and live here. Jesus Christ!, I want to live here! But of course, Peter James and John were just ~going along for the ride~, but they had an unforgettable glimpse. They existentially experienced the next level up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was actually beflustered when I first read your post, I couldn't reply. I'll come back to the personal stuff.

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

[andrew]

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Jan 13, 2024 7:22:52 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

You're trying to pour everything into the ND mold, it doesn't work that way. Tenka, for example, has talked about the levels Soul or Nous (spirit), the people he is talking to, for example ZD, have no reference for soul or spirit, inavalan also. Plotinus is talking about vibratory levels. And on the return path you can't skip any levels. You have to ~make real~ each level upward, for yourself. Let's arbitrarily assign a number to the vibratory levels. And let's double the rate of vibration of each successive level, a low number for faster, a higher number for slower vibratory level. So the One, the highest, Source, the Absolute of Plotinus would be the lowest density of matter (there is no dualism as written about by Descartes), the highest rate of vibration. So the second level moving down, emanation, Nous, would be 2. Next level, Soul, would be 4, our level, 8. So tenka, for example, is discussing levels 4 and 2. What tenka is asking, how can you say you have a realization of The One, and at the same time you don't know anything about levels 4 and 2? It's an excellent question. Now, inavalan has a model of the vibratory levels 4 and 2, but I've asked several times, do you have any actual experience of levels 4 and 2, or are you just describing a model? He hasn't answered.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to ~live in~ the model of Plotinus, you have to make-it-not-a-model, but reality. You can't just say, oh, I've had a realization of The One.

You see, sdp is not interested in a ND Realization of The One. sdp is interested in moving up (Richard Rose's ladder, which is essentially the enneads of Plotinus, his description), making real every moment of this world, #8, which is the way to make real the next vibratory level, #4. We have a physical body to live in this physical world. A body does not come ready-made, to live in the next vibratory level, #4. The path upward is about actually constructing a body, of the vibratory level, of each successive vibratory level. And, again, you can't skip levels. You can't jump from 8 to 2. So, for sdp, to have a ND Realization of The One, is a goal, shown, to be existentially achieved. The physical body is a chemical laboratory which is necessary to synthesize a body of the next higher vibratory level. This is what alchemy was all about, it wasn't about turning actual lead into actual gold, that was but an outer symbol according to the law of correspondence.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to work within his model the way he meant it. ....And the further, I have kept mentioning, is the vibratory level, 4. If you don't have reference for it, that's means ~you've never been there~. That's why Realization is not my language, existential experience is my language.

So why can you only-have a ND realization of The One? Because you can't experience it, without first traversing levels 4 and then 2.

And so then, this "model" brings us all together, everybody. But it's a completely arbitrary model. It's *models* the real. That's why, First you have to row a little boat. Plotinus has a wonderful, magnificent model, but it isn't really a model. It's a ~game plan~. Somebody experiences those levels, and then brings back the ashes, the dust, the chards, the whisper, the scent, the shadow. It's a more extensive version of Plato's allegory of the cave, which isn't an allegory. To have a ND Realization, and then go back to your old life, is like Esau selling his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of beans. A glimpse is to be treated as an irresistible and irrevocable motivation, to want to live there. A ND Realization, it seems to me, as it is written about, is like a Moon mission, we planted a flag, and haven't been back in 50 years. But not even that, we had a realization of what going to the Moon, is like.
Just to add a note. Seth would be of the Soul vibratory level, 4. Seth2 would be of the Nous vibratory level 2. Loosely speaking.

What Gurdjieff taught was how to traverse the levels, one person at a time. And then when somebody had gotten it sufficiently, he let them teach, and then likewise. A brief reference. The Mount of Transfiguration was a glimpse, for Peter, James and John. It was just ordinary life for Jesus. Peter, James and John saw Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah. Look at what Peter said. Oh, wow!, this is f-ing fantastic good-God-almighty, let's just pitch a tent and live here. Jesus Christ!, I want to live here! But of course, Peter James and John were just ~going along for the ride~, but they had an unforgettable glimpse. They existentially experienced the next level up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was actually beflustered when I first read your post, I couldn't reply. I'll come back to the personal stuff.

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I had the thought in the car about 3 hours ago that we hadn't seen you in a while, and wondered how you were doing, and here you are. Psychic connections on the forum.

Nice quote, remember I first saw it in a Neale Donald Walsch book, and it struck me then.

[someNOTHING!]

May 21, 2024 14:45:25 GMT -5 andrew said:

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

I had the thought in the car about 3 hours ago that we hadn't seen you in a while, and wondered how you were doing, and here you are. Psychic connections on the forum.

Nice quote, remember I first saw it in a Neale Donald Walsch book, and it struck me then.

Been a bit busy recently taking care of terrestrial responsibilities. All's well.

We're a tight-knit group here, y'might say, hehe.

Hope the road is treating you well, mate. Hands at 12 on the highways and 10-&-2 in the cities!

[andrew]

May 21, 2024 14:52:17 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

May 21, 2024 14:45:25 GMT -5 andrew said:

I had the thought in the car about 3 hours ago that we hadn't seen you in a while, and wondered how you were doing, and here you are. Psychic connections on the forum.

Nice quote, remember I first saw it in a Neale Donald Walsch book, and it struck me then.

Been a bit busy recently taking care of terrestrial responsibilities. All's well.

We're a tight-knit group here, y'might say, hehe.

Hope the road is treating you well, mate. Hands at 12 on the highways and 10-&-2 in the cities!

Cheers Jenn recently passed her driving test and has taken over most of the driving. It's a welcome change. After 30000 miles in a year on highways, I was at a point where my left hand was gently resting at 6 o'clock on the wheel, and my right hand resting on my leg . It was time for a driver swap! I suspect our very long drives are now in the past, so will be interesting to see what unfolds next. Glad to hear all's well.

[Gopal]

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Jan 13, 2024 7:22:52 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

You're trying to pour everything into the ND mold, it doesn't work that way. Tenka, for example, has talked about the levels Soul or Nous (spirit), the people he is talking to, for example ZD, have no reference for soul or spirit, inavalan also. Plotinus is talking about vibratory levels. And on the return path you can't skip any levels. You have to ~make real~ each level upward, for yourself. Let's arbitrarily assign a number to the vibratory levels. And let's double the rate of vibration of each successive level, a low number for faster, a higher number for slower vibratory level. So the One, the highest, Source, the Absolute of Plotinus would be the lowest density of matter (there is no dualism as written about by Descartes), the highest rate of vibration. So the second level moving down, emanation, Nous, would be 2. Next level, Soul, would be 4, our level, 8. So tenka, for example, is discussing levels 4 and 2. What tenka is asking, how can you say you have a realization of The One, and at the same time you don't know anything about levels 4 and 2? It's an excellent question. Now, inavalan has a model of the vibratory levels 4 and 2, but I've asked several times, do you have any actual experience of levels 4 and 2, or are you just describing a model? He hasn't answered.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to ~live in~ the model of Plotinus, you have to make-it-not-a-model, but reality. You can't just say, oh, I've had a realization of The One.

You see, sdp is not interested in a ND Realization of The One. sdp is interested in moving up (Richard Rose's ladder, which is essentially the enneads of Plotinus, his description), making real every moment of this world, #8, which is the way to make real the next vibratory level, #4. We have a physical body to live in this physical world. A body does not come ready-made, to live in the next vibratory level, #4. The path upward is about actually constructing a body, of the vibratory level, of each successive vibratory level. And, again, you can't skip levels. You can't jump from 8 to 2. So, for sdp, to have a ND Realization of The One, is a goal, shown, to be existentially achieved. The physical body is a chemical laboratory which is necessary to synthesize a body of the next higher vibratory level. This is what alchemy was all about, it wasn't about turning actual lead into actual gold, that was but an outer symbol according to the law of correspondence.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to work within his model the way he meant it. ....And the further, I have kept mentioning, is the vibratory level, 4. If you don't have reference for it, that's means ~you've never been there~. That's why Realization is not my language, existential experience is my language.

So why can you only-have a ND realization of The One? Because you can't experience it, without first traversing levels 4 and then 2.

And so then, this "model" brings us all together, everybody. But it's a completely arbitrary model. It's *models* the real. That's why, First you have to row a little boat. Plotinus has a wonderful, magnificent model, but it isn't really a model. It's a ~game plan~. Somebody experiences those levels, and then brings back the ashes, the dust, the chards, the whisper, the scent, the shadow. It's a more extensive version of Plato's allegory of the cave, which isn't an allegory. To have a ND Realization, and then go back to your old life, is like Esau selling his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of beans. A glimpse is to be treated as an irresistible and irrevocable motivation, to want to live there. A ND Realization, it seems to me, as it is written about, is like a Moon mission, we planted a flag, and haven't been back in 50 years. But not even that, we had a realization of what going to the Moon, is like.
Just to add a note. Seth would be of the Soul vibratory level, 4. Seth2 would be of the Nous vibratory level 2. Loosely speaking.

What Gurdjieff taught was how to traverse the levels, one person at a time. And then when somebody had gotten it sufficiently, he let them teach, and then likewise. A brief reference. The Mount of Transfiguration was a glimpse, for Peter, James and John. It was just ordinary life for Jesus. Peter, James and John saw Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah. Look at what Peter said. Oh, wow!, this is f-ing fantastic good-God-almighty, let's just pitch a tent and live here. Jesus Christ!, I want to live here! But of course, Peter James and John were just ~going along for the ride~, but they had an unforgettable glimpse. They existentially experienced the next level up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was actually beflustered when I first read your post, I couldn't reply. I'll come back to the personal stuff.

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Nicely said. Identifying ourselves with human is the error and all the actions are triggered from there. Once we know things we are seeing is actually arising within ourselves, then we are on the right track. 

[someNOTHING!]

May 21, 2024 21:17:21 GMT -5 Gopal said:

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Nicely said. Identifying ourselves with human is the error and all the actions are triggered from there. Once we know things we are seeing is actually arising within ourselves, then we are on the right track. 

Hey Gopal, I hope you and the fam are doing well, good sir. Nice to see you again.

Welp, all credit goes to Pierre, one of the better Catholic characters in the play.

When looking for ‘God’ outward or ‘Self’ inward (i.e., NOTHING), questions of identity are bound to arise. After all, when looking for anything, it is the mind that is self-identified, is missing that something, and/or has to do something to achieve something. The resolution often pointed to precedes the question arising. Some might call it an unconscious misunderstanding, pointing to some of the deeper roots of conditioning of which the imagined ‘self’ is the protagonist and/or antagonist in the play.

That degree of resolution might lead to the desire to tidy up the quote above, or it might not. Might depend on the context perceived as playing out. The mind can be a quirky quagmire of conditioning, some more than others. So I suppose it might be good at times to pause and take a perspective of the perception while in the flow, and see what becomes of it. The acausal ineffable, once realized, generally proves to have profound effects on how the mind unwinds, expressing its changing state until let go entirely, providing a radically Subjective awareness of the mind as an object. At that point, the quote's value can be appreciated in its potential.

🔥

[Gopal]

May 22, 2024 8:13:35 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

May 21, 2024 21:17:21 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Nicely said. Identifying ourselves with human is the error and all the actions are triggered from there. Once we know things we are seeing is actually arising within ourselves, then we are on the right track. 

Hey Gopal, I hope you and the fam are doing well, good sir. Nice to see you again.

Welp, all credit goes to Pierre, one of the better Catholic characters in the play.

When looking for ‘God’ outward or ‘Self’ inward (i.e., NOTHING), questions of identity are bound to arise. After all, when looking for anything, it is the mind that is self-identified, is missing that something, and/or has to do something to achieve something. The resolution often pointed to precedes the question arising. Some might call it an unconscious misunderstanding, pointing to some of the deeper roots of conditioning of which the imagined ‘self’ is the protagonist and/or antagonist in the play.

That degree of resolution might lead to the desire to tidy up the quote above, or it might not. Might depend on the context perceived as playing out. The mind can be a quirky quagmire of conditioning, some more than others. So I suppose it might be good at times to pause and take a perspective of the perception while in the flow, and see what becomes of it. The acausal ineffable, once realized, generally proves to have profound effects on how the mind unwinds, expressing its changing state until let go entirely, providing a radically Subjective awareness of the mind as an object. At that point, the quote's value can be appreciated in its potential.

🔥

For me, mind is the sequence of thoughts which are arising. So, mind is not self-identifying, the creator of the mind is mistaking himself to be a person or the one who reside inside this body. When one knows that Inner Creates the Outer or everything, then he starts to seek the solution within himself. When he fights with another person, he knows that he himself created that situation for himself. So, he would not find fault in others (Even if the anger expressed, he knows internally that he is the reason for that situation), he would look at the solution as to how he created or how that particular situation arises from himself. Then he reaches the clarity, and then he effortlessly changes the situation through the power of Infinite. 

[someNOTHING!]

May 22, 2024 21:42:27 GMT -5 Gopal said:

May 22, 2024 8:13:35 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Hey Gopal, I hope you and the fam are doing well, good sir. Nice to see you again.

Welp, all credit goes to Pierre, one of the better Catholic characters in the play.

When looking for ‘God’ outward or ‘Self’ inward (i.e., NOTHING), questions of identity are bound to arise. After all, when looking for anything, it is the mind that is self-identified, is missing that something, and/or has to do something to achieve something. The resolution often pointed to precedes the question arising. Some might call it an unconscious misunderstanding, pointing to some of the deeper roots of conditioning of which the imagined ‘self’ is the protagonist and/or antagonist in the play.

That degree of resolution might lead to the desire to tidy up the quote above, or it might not. Might depend on the context perceived as playing out. The mind can be a quirky quagmire of conditioning, some more than others. So I suppose it might be good at times to pause and take a perspective of the perception while in the flow, and see what becomes of it. The acausal ineffable, once realized, generally proves to have profound effects on how the mind unwinds, expressing its changing state until let go entirely, providing a radically Subjective awareness of the mind as an object. At that point, the quote's value can be appreciated in its potential.

🔥

For me, mind is the sequence of thoughts which are arising. So, mind is not self-identifying, the creator of the mind is mistaking himself to be a person or the one who reside inside this body. When one knows that Inner Creates the Outer or everything, then he starts to seek the solution within himself. When he fights with another person, he knows that he himself created that situation for himself. So, he would not find fault in others (Even if the anger expressed, he knows internally that he is the reason for that situation), he would look at the solution as to how he created or how that particular situation arises from himself. Then he reaches the clarity, and then he effortlessly changes the situation through the power of Infinite. 

Indeed, a lot of stuff almost seems moot if the concept of Infinite has been realized. But on occasion, stuff appears that might pique the mind's interest.

Yes, mind is a sequence of thought, and structures of beliefs, fired and wired, are its castles. Without mind, there is neither self nor creator, outer nor inner, others, etc ... the labeling of all dualities within Infinity. Reason, I'd suggest, is born of this same movement of thought, but seeks to delve deeper into the flow of abstractions of thought to mine cause/effect relationships. The hows and whys tend to crop up and pile up in the mind play. Perhaps that is what SDP is alluding to enjoying exploring as 'where the rubber hits the road'. The Peace still remains, unchanged.

That's all fine and dandy if one has realized with clarity (stillness, silence, emptiness, khora, etc) that's right Here, right Now, prior to it all, stabilized in the Knowing.

---

And so castles made of sand
fall/melt/slip into the sea
eventually
~J. Hendrix

Peace

[stardustpilgrim]

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Jan 13, 2024 7:22:52 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

You're trying to pour everything into the ND mold, it doesn't work that way. Tenka, for example, has talked about the levels Soul or Nous (spirit), the people he is talking to, for example ZD, have no reference for soul or spirit, inavalan also. Plotinus is talking about vibratory levels. And on the return path you can't skip any levels. You have to ~make real~ each level upward, for yourself. Let's arbitrarily assign a number to the vibratory levels. And let's double the rate of vibration of each successive level, a low number for faster, a higher number for slower vibratory level. So the One, the highest, Source, the Absolute of Plotinus would be the lowest density of matter (there is no dualism as written about by Descartes), the highest rate of vibration. So the second level moving down, emanation, Nous, would be 2. Next level, Soul, would be 4, our level, 8. So tenka, for example, is discussing levels 4 and 2. What tenka is asking, how can you say you have a realization of The One, and at the same time you don't know anything about levels 4 and 2? It's an excellent question. Now, inavalan has a model of the vibratory levels 4 and 2, but I've asked several times, do you have any actual experience of levels 4 and 2, or are you just describing a model? He hasn't answered.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to ~live in~ the model of Plotinus, you have to make-it-not-a-model, but reality. You can't just say, oh, I've had a realization of The One.

You see, sdp is not interested in a ND Realization of The One. sdp is interested in moving up (Richard Rose's ladder, which is essentially the enneads of Plotinus, his description), making real every moment of this world, #8, which is the way to make real the next vibratory level, #4. We have a physical body to live in this physical world. A body does not come ready-made, to live in the next vibratory level, #4. The path upward is about actually constructing a body, of the vibratory level, of each successive vibratory level. And, again, you can't skip levels. You can't jump from 8 to 2. So, for sdp, to have a ND Realization of The One, is a goal, shown, to be existentially achieved. The physical body is a chemical laboratory which is necessary to synthesize a body of the next higher vibratory level. This is what alchemy was all about, it wasn't about turning actual lead into actual gold, that was but an outer symbol according to the law of correspondence.

So to understand Plotinus, you have to work within his model the way he meant it. ....And the further, I have kept mentioning, is the vibratory level, 4. If you don't have reference for it, that's means ~you've never been there~. That's why Realization is not my language, existential experience is my language.

So why can you only-have a ND realization of The One? Because you can't experience it, without first traversing levels 4 and then 2.

And so then, this "model" brings us all together, everybody. But it's a completely arbitrary model. It's *models* the real. That's why, First you have to row a little boat. Plotinus has a wonderful, magnificent model, but it isn't really a model. It's a ~game plan~. Somebody experiences those levels, and then brings back the ashes, the dust, the chards, the whisper, the scent, the shadow. It's a more extensive version of Plato's allegory of the cave, which isn't an allegory. To have a ND Realization, and then go back to your old life, is like Esau selling his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of beans. A glimpse is to be treated as an irresistible and irrevocable motivation, to want to live there. A ND Realization, it seems to me, as it is written about, is like a Moon mission, we planted a flag, and haven't been back in 50 years. But not even that, we had a realization of what going to the Moon, is like.
Just to add a note. Seth would be of the Soul vibratory level, 4. Seth2 would be of the Nous vibratory level 2. Loosely speaking.

What Gurdjieff taught was how to traverse the levels, one person at a time. And then when somebody had gotten it sufficiently, he let them teach, and then likewise. A brief reference. The Mount of Transfiguration was a glimpse, for Peter, James and John. It was just ordinary life for Jesus. Peter, James and John saw Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah. Look at what Peter said. Oh, wow!, this is f-ing fantastic good-God-almighty, let's just pitch a tent and live here. Jesus Christ!, I want to live here! But of course, Peter James and John were just ~going along for the ride~, but they had an unforgettable glimpse. They existentially experienced the next level up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was actually beflustered when I first read your post, I couldn't reply. I'll come back to the personal stuff.

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Yes. Where is this spiritual world? (Spiritual being = spiritual world). And if you quote de Chardin you have to bring in Omega, where it's all headed. That means Omega doesn't now exist.

[someNOTHING!]

May 23, 2024 8:33:16 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

May 21, 2024 14:24:02 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

Dearest apparently beflustered human being seemingly misunderstanding, rearranging, labeling, and rationalizing ND, please consider the following as a decent pointer.

"We are not human beings (seeking or) having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings is having a human experience."
~Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Yes. Where is this spiritual world? (Spiritual being = spiritual world). And if you quote de Chardin you have to bring in Omega, where it's all headed. That means Omega doesn't now exist.

OK, perhaps you can share your understanding of de Chardin, his take on Omega, and how it might point to or touch on what is Infinite/Eternal. I do not know enough about him to comment much further, so maybe the exploration might be of some benefit. It may be that he was eloquently waxing poetic based on experience or knowledge, without the realization of Being.

THIS is inclusive of such a spiritual world (not born of it, but gives rise to it, so to speak). IT'S right Here, right Now, without beginning or end.

[stardustpilgrim]

May 23, 2024 9:28:21 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

May 23, 2024 8:33:16 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Yes. Where is this spiritual world? (Spiritual being = spiritual world). And if you quote de Chardin you have to bring in Omega, where it's all headed. That means Omega doesn't now exist.

OK, perhaps you can share your understanding of de Chardin, his take on Omega, and how it might point to or touch on what is Infinite/Eternal. I do not know enough about him to comment much further, so maybe the exploration might be of some benefit. It may be that he was eloquently waxing poetic based on experience or knowledge, without the realization of Being.

THIS is inclusive of such a spiritual world (not born of it, but gives rise to it, so to speak). IT'S right Here, right Now, without beginning or end.

Last paragraph, indubitably.

[laughter]

May 23, 2024 9:28:21 GMT -5 someNOTHING! said:

May 23, 2024 8:33:16 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Yes. Where is this spiritual world? (Spiritual being = spiritual world). And if you quote de Chardin you have to bring in Omega, where it's all headed. That means Omega doesn't now exist.

OK, perhaps you can share your understanding of de Chardin, his take on Omega, and how it might point to or touch on what is Infinite/Eternal. I do not know enough about him to comment much further, so maybe the exploration might be of some benefit. It may be that he was eloquently waxing poetic based on experience or knowledge, without the realization of Being.

THIS is inclusive of such a spiritual world (not born of it, but gives rise to it, so to speak). IT'S right Here, right Now, without beginning or end.

Body of Christ .. "I am the alpha and the omega". Time, is "through a glass darkly".