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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:15:36 GMT -5
someone in my world can't suffer, if they suffer then they are my own creation. And if they are not suffering, they are not your creation? So they are separate from you as an appearance in consciousness. I did not say they are separate, but I said they are sharing the same consciousness with me or not I can't know because existence of others can't be known. But what I know is everything moves together, What I know the 'other' who are the appearance in my consciousness is not acting separately from me. Do you know the universe reflectance properly, if you get irritated, sooner you would be seeing the circumstance where somebody would get irritated, If you get angry then you would meet a situation where some body gets angry(not on you but some other people would be fighting), So if your are in peace, then you world would be in peace. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:17:02 GMT -5
And if they are not suffering, they are not your creation? So they are separate from you as an appearance in consciousness. I did not say they are separate, but I said they are sharing the same consciousness with me or not I can't know because existence of others can't be known. But what I know is everything moves together, What I know the 'other' who are the appearance in my consciousness is not acting separately from me. Do you know the universe reflectance properly, if you get irritated, sooner you would be seeing the circumstance where somebody would get irritated, If you get angry then you would meet a situation where some body gets angry(not on you but some other people would be fighting), So if you are in peace, then you world would be in peace. But the entity manifesting people with purpose must be separate from you. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2015 9:20:11 GMT -5
You understand........ Really? Are you both smoking the same stuff? I understand what gopal is saying from within his understandings. I don't believe in predermination so his choices are quite different to mine, but his answers are consistent with his understandings. Though currently I don't understand why he offers advice at all. I think his primary point is that one cannot do anything. I think he points this out so people can be on the lookout, to see that one cannot do anything. I actually agree with this. It is in more agreement with my view than nonvolition. However, there is a process whereby one can come to do. So in my view gopal's view is not the end. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:21:40 GMT -5
I would say you are correct, Because I have the 100% of certainty that other people are manifested for certain purpose to carry over. Okay, I understand. Hmmm. Okay, in that case, if you consider any advice you offer to be utterly irrelevant to whether realization happens to someone or not, why do you offer it? What is the motivation and intention behind the advice you give? What drives you to spend time on the forum and talk about this stuff? I appreciate you answering the questions by the way. yes good question, If unfolding universe moves towards for other person then that is useful, but it's not failure if it doesn't happen, and I am doing for my own enjoyment as well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:28:57 GMT -5
I did not say they are separate, but I said they are sharing the same consciousness with me or not I can't know because existence of others can't be known. But what I know is everything moves together, What I know the 'other' who are the appearance in my consciousness is not acting separately from me. Do you know the universe reflectance properly, if you get irritated, sooner you would be seeing the circumstance where somebody would get irritated, If you get angry then you would meet a situation where some body gets angry(not on you but some other people would be fighting), So if you are in peace, then you world would be in peace. But the entity manifesting people with purpose must be separate from you. What I can know is, Manifestation of intention starts even before the intention comes to my mind and also Outer world stability and Olas written about someone here before 5000 years ago by someone this proves the preexisting movement,If the preexisting movement exist, then there need a predestiner of this movement, so there is predestiner for this movement. |
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2015 9:29:13 GMT -5
No. I found the answer to my last existential question in 1999. I finally understood what's going on "in my bones." Afterwards, freedom and peace. No more questioning. So you are not practicing or noticing any ATA-T is going on in you? I do not practice anything except dancing. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2015 9:29:33 GMT -5
Okay, I understand. Hmmm. Okay, in that case, if you consider any advice you offer to be utterly irrelevant to whether realization happens to someone or not, why do you offer it? What is the motivation and intention behind the advice you give? What drives you to spend time on the forum and talk about this stuff? I appreciate you answering the questions by the way. yes good question, If unfolding universe moves towards for other person then that is useful, but it's not failure if it doesn't happen, and I am doing for my own enjoyment as well. But if everything is predetermined then you are not doing this for your own enjoyment. The doing (posting here) and the enjoying is predetermined. If you really saw everything is predetermined, then you would be very angry with the pre-determiner. In any case, it seems you are acting as if your are free. Yes? No? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:30:03 GMT -5
The law of attraction is the name given to the term that "like attracts like" and that by focusing on positive or negative thoughts, one can bring about positive or negative results. This is only at superficial level, but in truth we can bend probable line of universe as our wish. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 9:33:39 GMT -5
yes good question, If unfolding universe moves towards for other person then that is useful, but it's not failure if it doesn't happen, and I am doing for my own enjoyment as well. But if everything is predetermined then you are not doing this for your own enjoyment. The doing (posting here) and the enjoying is predetermined. If you really saw everything is predetermined, then you would be very angry with the pre-determiner. In any case, it seems you are acting as if your are free. Yes? No? My doing brings the purpose to the one who has predetermined this. Why would I be angry with the pre-determiner when I know he has the full rights to do anything he wishes? Doesn't potter has to rights to mold the pot in anyway he wishes? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2015 9:35:58 GMT -5
The law of attraction is the name given to the term that "like attracts like" and that by focusing on positive or negative thoughts, one can bring about positive or negative results. This is only at superficial level, but in truth we can bend probable line of universe as our wish. Oh.....come on now....don't cheat. I thought in your view everything is predetermined. |
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2015 9:42:29 GMT -5
stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so muchstop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much How many times are you going to repeat the above line? Are you even least bother about what I have written to you? Do you even understand what I mean by whether other individual are real or figment can't be known? You did not,Isn't it? gopal, It's a question of boundary. For discussion, let's say gopal's boundary ends at your skin (or mind). So you necessarily say that you cannot know if another individual is real, because they of course exist outside the boundary that forms gopal. But ZD is saying there is not this boundary for him. His posts are merely trying to point you to this, that gopal is not separate, there is not really a boundary. The boundary is imaginary. ZD makes the statements he does because of........this. "Experience" outside the boundary of "ZD". Correct. Gopal's idea that any state, or attempt to do anything, can be broken is only half true. He only sees one side of the coin. This is what Satch keeps pointing to. One sage sees the truth and says, "meditate, ATA, contemplate, inquire within, etc." Another sage sees the truth and says, "There is nothing you can do." Both sages are pointing to exactly the same thing in different ways. This will seem illogical or contradictory to the intellect. Fortunately, although what we are includes the intellect, it can become free from the intellect, and thereby discover what we might call "the big picture." |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2015 9:42:59 GMT -5
But if everything is predetermined then you are not doing this for your own enjoyment. The doing (posting here) and the enjoying is predetermined. If you really saw everything is predetermined, then you would be very angry with the pre-determiner. In any case, it seems you are acting as if your are free. Yes? No? My doing brings the purpose to the one who has predetermined this. Why would I be angry with the pre-determiner when I know he has the full rights to do anything he wishes? Doesn't potter has to rights to mold the pot in anyway he wishes? But what if you were Judas and found out you were predetermined to betray Jesus. Women get raped and murdered every day. People die of hunger every day. If I came to see (as it seems you do) that God predetermines everything, I would be outraged and angry to the nth degree. There is something not quite right with your view, which you haven't seen yet. edit: If there is a conscious and intelligent God then the world doesn't make sense unless man has the possibility for free choice. (IMO God can't deliberately do harm to people. The Bible is a good try at explaining God, but everything in it cannot be taken literally, but more than that, you would at least have to understand Hebrew. edit the edit: When the English says it says God did such and such [seeming evil stuff] the Hebrew doesn't say that. The Hebrew says God doesn't stop evil people from doing evil stuff, but the Bible doesn't do philosophy as to how God operates). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 14, 2015 9:47:44 GMT -5
gopal, It's a question of boundary. For discussion, let's say gopal's boundary ends at your skin (or mind). So you necessarily say that you cannot know if another individual is real, because they of course exist outside the boundary that forms gopal. But ZD is saying there is not this boundary for him. His posts are merely trying to point you to this, that gopal is not separate, there is not really a boundary. The boundary is imaginary. ZD makes the statements he does because of........this. "Experience" outside the boundary of "ZD". Correct. Gopal's idea that any state, or attempt to do anything, can (sdp, to clarify, do you mean can't here?) be broken is only half true. He only sees one side of the coin. This is what Satch keeps pointing to. One sage sees the truth and says, "meditate, ATA, contemplate, inquire within, etc." Another sage sees the truth and says, "There is nothing you can do." Both sages are pointing to exactly the same thing in different ways. This will seem illogical or contradictory to the intellect. Fortunately, although what we are includes the intellect, it can become free from the intellect, and thereby discover what we might call "the big picture." Can? Can't? to clarify |
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2015 9:57:41 GMT -5
Correct. Gopal's idea that any state, or attempt to do anything, can (sdp, to clarify, do you mean can't here?) be broken is only half true. He only sees one side of the coin. This is what Satch keeps pointing to. One sage sees the truth and says, "meditate, ATA, contemplate, inquire within, etc." Another sage sees the truth and says, "There is nothing you can do." Both sages are pointing to exactly the same thing in different ways. This will seem illogical or contradictory to the intellect. Fortunately, although what we are includes the intellect, it can become free from the intellect, and thereby discover what we might call "the big picture." Can? Can't? to clarify Gopal says that if one decides to meditate that state CAN be broken. He is correct, but he doesn't seem to understand that the state MAY NOT get broken. If everything is a movement in consciousness (his view), and everything is predetermined, then it is impossible to say with certainty what will happen next. The one who meditates may continue to meditate or not, and may have realizations or not, and may have CC experiences or not, and may discover what's going on or not. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 10:00:09 GMT -5
This is only at superficial level, but in truth we can bend probable line of universe as our wish. Oh.....come on now....don't cheat. I thought in your view everything is predetermined. yes It is, I am not saying or I am not cheating anything. Everything is predetermined. Everything is in pre-existing flow which is my eternal mantra. |
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