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Post by andrew on May 14, 2015 6:49:50 GMT -5
I understand you consider the knowing that 'there is nothing you can do' to be important, but how do you think one gets to that stage without engaging with, and failing at, practices and looking exercises etc? Based on what you have said, it sounds like you have experienced and realized many things, for example, that perceiver and perceived are one unit, you also had realizations about happiness/unhappiness and LOA and probably many other things. Do you think that these helped you get to the point where you knew that 'there is nothing you can do'? "that perceiver and perceived are one unit" I haven't realized this, this is the logical conclusion "happiness/unhappiness " yes it's a realization. "Law of attraction" This is not realization, I happened to see what's happening in the outer world while I was using affirmation in my inner world. It's a direct seeing. Nothing can be done can be realized only after you do all these crappy things. haha okay cool. So there's a bit of a paradox here in that certain crappy things have to be done in order to realize that nothing can be done! |
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Post by andrew on May 14, 2015 6:50:55 GMT -5
Yes, any practices, but I believe these practices are necessary to realize the futility of that. And when you have realized the futility of all that and you are still seeking, still suffering, what do you do then. go to the pub lol |
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2015 7:19:32 GMT -5
Gopal: You're a smart fellow. Surely you can see that I'm not remotely interested in your ideas. If you have attained peace of mind, then that's great. Relax and enjoy life. You seem incredibly certain that I can't be certain, but here's the point------I don't care about that idea either! Go have some fun, and stop thinking so much; you'll be lots happier. ha ha stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so muchstop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much How many times are you going to repeat the above line? Are you even least bother about what I have written to you? Do you even understand what I mean by whether other individual are real or figment can't be known? You did not,Isn't it? What you're interested in discussing doesn't interest me. Is that hard to understand? FWIW, I spent twenty years thinking about reality and never found a single answer to any of my dozens of existential questions. After I started shifting attention AWAY from thoughts, answers began to appear. Eventually I found the answers to all of my questions, and the search for understanding came to an end. Considering my past experience with thinking ABOUT "what is" versus attending "what is," can you understand why I point people toward attending and AWAY than thinking? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 7:25:46 GMT -5
"that perceiver and perceived are one unit" I haven't realized this, this is the logical conclusion "happiness/unhappiness " yes it's a realization. "Law of attraction" This is not realization, I happened to see what's happening in the outer world while I was using affirmation in my inner world. It's a direct seeing. Nothing can be done can be realized only after you do all these crappy things. haha okay cool. So there's a bit of a paradox here in that certain crappy things have to be done in order to realize that nothing can be done! Impersonal order maintain that crappy thing from my experience, my journey starts from using Law of attraction, I was surprised when I hear about Law of attraction, when I result I got astonished. When I see how universe moves, my belief of freewill went for a toss. Even after seeing those great movement I still believed that freewill was true,I thought Since those people are not using Law of attraction, they could manifest anything and they are working for me, but when I came to know the truth that intention to manifest something is also manifestation, it become blatantly clear that freewill is pure illusion. Order is always there within the crappy things. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 7:29:29 GMT -5
stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so muchstop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much,stop thinking so much How many times are you going to repeat the above line? Are you even least bother about what I have written to you? Do you even understand what I mean by whether other individual are real or figment can't be known? You did not,Isn't it? What you're interested in discussing doesn't interest me. Is that hard to understand? FWIW, I spent twenty years thinking about reality and never found a single answer to any of my dozens of existential questions. After I started shifting attention AWAY from thoughts, answers began to appear. Eventually I found the answers to all of my questions, and the search for understanding came to an end. Considering my past experience with thinking ABOUT "what is" versus attending "what is," can you understand why I point people toward attending and AWAY than thinking? I understand I understand I understand I told you many times, but you are not hearing me, But I said you why I find a fault in your method, it's not a conceptual knowledge of mine, I did all these crappy thing of focusing on the present movement after reading Tolle's book, I thought all my suffering would go away if I focus my attention in the present movement but what I noticed was, mind exactly knows to break this state of present movement focus, it would surely so strongly suggest so that we would give up the focus. But I am sure you are going to hear from me even this time. Let me ask you a question, Aren't you still performing this present movement focus to attain some answers? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 7:31:47 GMT -5
Once again I repeat I do not suffer, I told you many times, you are still asking the same question. Do not assume that I am suffering in the way I write to the zendancer. Enigma is also yelling at sometime, do you think that Enigma suffers? When I say "you" I do not mean you personally, I mean anyone who is a seeker and will hear your advice not to practice. He asks you, what do I do next? I am not suggesting a method not to do anything, If I had done then that would be an another practise, I am saying that needs to be realized, I believe impersonal movement has the own order, I do not say God has fallen into the dream, I differ here from Enigma. |
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Post by andrew on May 14, 2015 7:42:08 GMT -5
haha okay cool. So there's a bit of a paradox here in that certain crappy things have to be done in order to realize that nothing can be done! Impersonal order maintain that crappy thing from my experience, my journey starts from using Law of attraction, I was surprised when I hear about Law of attraction, when I result I got astonished. When I see how universe moves, my belief of freewill went for a toss. Even after seeing those great movement I still believed that freewill was true,I thought Since those people are not using Law of attraction, they could manifest anything and they are working for me, but when I came to know the truth that intention to manifest something is also manifestation, it become blatantly clear that freewill is pure illusion. Order is always there within the crappy things. Right, so there is an order of things that have to happen, but it's an impersonal order. Hmmm. So let's say someone comes to you who has never done the crappy stuff and says ''gopal, I want the realization that you had that nothing can be done''...do you tell them that there is nothing they can do, and that you can't help them, because nothing can be done....or do you tell them to go and do the crappy stuff in order to get to the realization? |
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Post by zendancer on May 14, 2015 7:42:30 GMT -5
What you're interested in discussing doesn't interest me. Is that hard to understand? FWIW, I spent twenty years thinking about reality and never found a single answer to any of my dozens of existential questions. After I started shifting attention AWAY from thoughts, answers began to appear. Eventually I found the answers to all of my questions, and the search for understanding came to an end. Considering my past experience with thinking ABOUT "what is" versus attending "what is," can you understand why I point people toward attending and AWAY than thinking? I understand I understand I understand I told you many times, but you are not hearing me, But I said you why I find a fault in your method, it's not a conceptual knowledge of mine, I did all these crappy thing of focusing on the present movement after reading Tolle's book, I thought all my suffering would go away if I focus my attention in the present movement but what I noticed was, mind exactly knows to break this state of present movement focus, it would surely so strongly suggest so that we would give up the focus. But I am sure you are going to hear from me even this time. Let me ask you a question, Aren't you still performing this present movement focus to attain some answers? No. I found the answer to my last existential question in 1999. I finally understood what's going on "in my bones." Afterwards, freedom and peace. No more questioning. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 7:51:55 GMT -5
I understand I understand I understand I told you many times, but you are not hearing me, But I said you why I find a fault in your method, it's not a conceptual knowledge of mine, I did all these crappy thing of focusing on the present movement after reading Tolle's book, I thought all my suffering would go away if I focus my attention in the present movement but what I noticed was, mind exactly knows to break this state of present movement focus, it would surely so strongly suggest so that we would give up the focus. But I am sure you are going to hear from me even this time. Let me ask you a question, Aren't you still performing this present movement focus to attain some answers? No. I found the answer to my last existential question in 1999. I finally understood what's going on "in my bones." Afterwards, freedom and peace. No more questioning. So you are not practicing or noticing any ATA-T is going on in you? |
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Post by tenka on May 14, 2015 7:52:25 GMT -5
Impersonal order maintain that crappy thing from my experience, my journey starts from using Law of attraction, I was surprised when I hear about Law of attraction, when I result I got astonished. When I see how universe moves, my belief of freewill went for a toss. Even after seeing those great movement I still believed that freewill was true,I thought Since those people are not using Law of attraction, they could manifest anything and they are working for me, but when I came to know the truth that intention to manifest something is also manifestation, it become blatantly clear that freewill is pure illusion. Order is always there within the crappy things. Right, so there is an order of things that have to happen, but it's an impersonal order. Hmmm. So let's say someone comes to you who has never done the crappy stuff and says ''gopal, I want the realization that you had that nothing can be done''...do you tell them that there is nothing they can do, and that you can't help them, because nothing can be done....or do you tell them to go and do the crappy stuff in order to get to the realization? It's like the A-Z analogy hey mate .. if you don't work through / experience B-Y then you can't relate how that journey relates to A and Z . In terms of what is to be done, I would say journeying through B-Y has to be done .. |
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Post by andrew on May 14, 2015 8:07:25 GMT -5
Right, so there is an order of things that have to happen, but it's an impersonal order. Hmmm. So let's say someone comes to you who has never done the crappy stuff and says ''gopal, I want the realization that you had that nothing can be done''...do you tell them that there is nothing they can do, and that you can't help them, because nothing can be done....or do you tell them to go and do the crappy stuff in order to get to the realization? It's like the A-Z analogy hey mate .. if you don't work through / experience B-Y then you can't relate how that journey relates to A and Z . In terms of what is to be done, I would say journeying through B-Y has to be done .. yep I hear ya, the difference is that you are perhaps likely to say 'go meditate your as.s off' lol....whereas I am not clear yet what gopal would say if someone asks what to do. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 8:22:51 GMT -5
When I say "you" I do not mean you personally, I mean anyone who is a seeker and will hear your advice not to practice. He asks you, what do I do next? I am not suggesting a method not to do anything, If I had done then that would be an another practise, I am saying that needs to be realized, I believe impersonal movement has the own order, I do not say God has fallen into the dream, I differ here from Enigma. OK so what is it that you don't do that you do. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 8:28:48 GMT -5
haha okay cool. So there's a bit of a paradox here in that certain crappy things have to be done in order to realize that nothing can be done! Impersonal order maintain that crappy thing from my experience, my journey starts from using Law of attraction, I was surprised when I hear about Law of attraction, when I result I got astonished. When I see how universe moves, my belief of freewill went for a toss. Even after seeing those great movement I still believed that freewill was true,I thought Since those people are not using Law of attraction, they could manifest anything and they are working for me, but when I came to know the truth that intention to manifest something is also manifestation, it become blatantly clear that freewill is pure illusion. Order is always there within the crappy things. How does this law of attraction work. Is it something you do. If everything is predetermined, then practice it is predetermined. If you don't practice it is predetermined. If you write here and advise that practice is crappy, that too is predetermined, so if you used law of attraction you had no choice because it was predetermined as is your fate to write in this forum for the next ten years with the message to do nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 8:34:31 GMT -5
Impersonal order maintain that crappy thing from my experience, my journey starts from using Law of attraction, I was surprised when I hear about Law of attraction, when I result I got astonished. When I see how universe moves, my belief of freewill went for a toss. Even after seeing those great movement I still believed that freewill was true,I thought Since those people are not using Law of attraction, they could manifest anything and they are working for me, but when I came to know the truth that intention to manifest something is also manifestation, it become blatantly clear that freewill is pure illusion. Order is always there within the crappy things. How does this law of attraction work. Is it something you do. If everything is predetermined, then practice it is predetermined. If you don't practice it is predetermined. If you write here and advise that practice is crappy, that too is predetermined, so if you used law of attraction you had no choice because it was predetermined as is your fate to write in this forum for the next ten years with the message to do nothing. Yes, it's predetermined to do, that's what I am bringing purpose to this universal movement. I understand this predetermined movement when I came across the fact that my intention is also a manifestation. Do you ever heard of Law of attraction? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 8:35:52 GMT -5
I am not suggesting a method not to do anything, If I had done then that would be an another practise, I am saying that needs to be realized, I believe impersonal movement has the own order, I do not say God has fallen into the dream, I differ here from Enigma. OK so what is it that you don't do that you do. What? |
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