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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2016 1:47:21 GMT -5
It's deeply conditioned and what's just as normal is the strategy of delayed gratification, aka, "no pain no gain" -- go counter to the conditioning and reap the benefits of accomplishment. The peace off the roller coaster is transcendent of that conditioning. Wanting to have certain feelings is the real problem. Wanting pleasure or wanting pain to abate isn't a problem per se. Expectation about the future on the other hand, can be. Say, for instance, when there's an expectation of a future feeling state of some special perpetual orgasm.  |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 1:47:58 GMT -5
In the same way Lollycop has learned too much about dysfunctional social dynamics to see what's actually happening, so has Sasquatch learned too much spiritual nonsense to see the simple truth. Have you ever come across any spiritual stuff that isn't nonsense? Sure, but it's very simple, stripped down to the core. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 1:50:27 GMT -5
And needing to feel good is what gets peeps back on the roller coaster. Wanting to feel good and avoid suffering is normal human behaviour. Hence why equanimity and Peace are so rare, and why the roller coaster is so popular. |
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Post by laughter on Sept 7, 2016 1:52:16 GMT -5
It's just a TMT play on the two words, peace and knowing. I clearly don't have any confusion with what enigma calls as Peace and I clearly see the problem of Satch's peace. But Satch consistently fails to understand. Enigma knows what's Peace, I know what's not Peace. That's what I clearly find the problem with Satch's Peace but Satch consistently shows the ignorance. It's a line of reasoning that's a clever mind-hook: if you don't know this "peace" then what can you say about it, but how can you know it without experiencing it? This is what peeps with objections to pointers do, they spin with them in intellect. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 1:55:33 GMT -5
Yeah, to stop feeling bad. That's what I mean by needing to feel good. Is there something wrong with wanting to feel good? Yes, it misses the point of freedom. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 1:59:50 GMT -5
Have you not noticed that there is a duality of world that is experienced? You cannot say you are existence alone. That is an abstract meaningless statement? When he says existence, he is pointing out the ultimate awareness in which everything appear and disappears. If he thinks that's meaningless abstraction he hasn't heard what his teachers have been trying to say. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 2:00:13 GMT -5
We want to feel happiness and avoid suffering because we are already complete. There is nothing to attain except to remove the veil of ignorance to reveal what is always there, the light of consciousness which is itself nothing other than peace. So called conditional peace is when we see just a glimpse of absolute reality. When it is realized in totality, it shines forth always. That's what makes it unconditional. There is only one Peace. In the roller coaster metaphor the rider is stuck to a track, and what she experiences are the highs and the lows from avoiding pain and pursuing pleasure. There is a different experience possible that's not tied to the contours of the track. There's no need to attach to a particular use of a word, it just promulgates endless and pointless dialog. Yeah, that's the point. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 2:01:59 GMT -5
In the roller coaster metaphor the rider is stuck to a track, and what she experiences are the highs and the lows from avoiding pain and pursuing pleasure. There is a different experience possible that's not tied to the contours of the track. There's no need to attach to a particular use of a word, it just promulgates endless and pointless dialog. Endless and pointless dialogue is for those who haven't discovered this simple truth. That's not possible. But happy and unhappy is not a problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 2:02:53 GMT -5
If you feel good then you would feel bad soon, feeling are dualistic in nature. That's what peace is absence not the presence of something. We cannot avoid dualism. Dualism is the Maya shakti. It is also Brahman. Peace is the light of Brahman (consciousness). Know you are that and you are at peace. Yes, not a problem here, but problem comes in only when you define peace as a kind of feeling. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 2:08:14 GMT -5
Wanting to feel good and avoid suffering is normal human behaviour. Yes it is, but not after realization. That's what he says he finds the joy in both sides of the rollercoaster. Yes, I know it's difficult for peeps to accept that there is joy in fear and sorrow, even as they seek it out for the enjoyable experience. It's only difficult because they are unconscious. Yin and Yang are completely intertwined.  |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 2:12:23 GMT -5
OFCOURSE! That's what move you into the roller coaster, that's what push you to experience the happy side of the roller coaster beyond it's limit So the depth of unhappiness is also higher thereby it could lead to suffering. When he says Peace is the absence of suffering, He says once after you have realized the peace, your consciousness doesn't CREATE SUFFERING, It falls within the limits of happy and unhappy rollercoaster. I've never ever heard that wanting to feel good is not good. There's a first time for everything, eh? Even I know Buddhism teaches about the problem of craving and desire. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 2:13:39 GMT -5
Wanting to feel good and avoid suffering is normal human behaviour. It's deeply conditioned and what's just as normal is the strategy of delayed gratification, aka, "no pain no gain" -- go counter to the conditioning and reap the benefits of accomplishment. The peace off the roller coaster is transcendent of that conditioning. Yes. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 2:14:01 GMT -5
Wanting to have certain feelings is the real problem. Expectation about the future on the other hand, can be. Say, for instance, when there's an expectation of a future feeling state of some special perpetual orgasm. 1000 Nos! It absolutely a problem. A kind of feeling runs the story accordingly. So suffering might happen due to expecting the future, then expecting the future is the story suffering takes it's expression. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2016 2:17:58 GMT -5
It's deeply conditioned and what's just as normal is the strategy of delayed gratification, aka, "no pain no gain" -- go counter to the conditioning and reap the benefits of accomplishment. The peace off the roller coaster is transcendent of that conditioning. There is nothing to attain except to remove the veil of ignorance to reveal what is always there, the light of consciousness which is itself nothing other than peace. So called conditional peace is when we see just a glimpse of absolute reality. When it is realized in totality, it shines forth always. That's what makes it unconditional. There is only one Peace. No, that's not why. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 2:19:22 GMT -5
I clearly don't have any confusion with what enigma calls as Peace and I clearly see the problem of Satch's peace. But Satch consistently fails to understand. Enigma knows what's Peace, I know what's not Peace. That's what I clearly find the problem with Satch's Peace but Satch consistently shows the ignorance. It's a line of reasoning that's a clever mind-hook: if you don't know this "peace" then what can you say about it, but how can you know it without experiencing it? This is what peeps with objections to pointers do, they spin with them in intellect. That's the good question, Yes I don't know what Enigma says about 'Peace', but I know what's not peace. I know it can come through our effort. I know feeling good or some kind of feeling can't be Peace, because I know what would be the result of that If that was the case. |
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