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Post by zendancer on May 12, 2015 13:35:36 GMT -5
gopal you are playing a game of catch-22, in which the more answers you get, the more questions you have. And then more seeking of answers and then more questions.... What you are seeking is in this moment, it cannot be found in thought. It's a question to understand what he exactly thinks. What he speaks doesn't make any sense at any time. Because in my view, nothing can be done to attain or eradicate anything from our reality, reality unfolds perfectly. Anything you do to attain something would be a new creation, Creation is something which repeats in your reality, So his meditation or ATA-T is just another creation to the mind. Gopal: You have realized that nothing can be done. That's cool, so who or what is doing whatever you see the body doing (perhaps walking to a store)? If "you" are not doing it (because nothing can be done), then who or what is doing it? The body is being lived, but if "you" are not living it (because nothing can be done), then who is living it? E & I both understand, but do you? |
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Post by zendancer on May 12, 2015 13:36:37 GMT -5
Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. gopal you are playing a game of catch-22, in which the more answers you get, the more questions you have. And then more seeking of answers and then more questions.... What you are seeking is in this moment, it cannot be found in thought. Precisely! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 22:27:33 GMT -5
It's a question to understand what he exactly thinks. What he speaks doesn't make any sense at any time. Because in my view, nothing can be done to attain or eradicate anything from our reality, reality unfolds perfectly. Anything you do to attain something would be a new creation, Creation is something which repeats in your reality, So his meditation or ATA-T is just another creation to the mind. Gopal: You have realized that nothing can be done. That's cool, so who or what is doing whatever you see the body doing (perhaps walking to a store)? If "you" are not doing it (because nothing can be done), then who or what is doing it? The body is being lived, but if "you" are not living it (because nothing can be done), then who is living it? E & I both understand, but do you? Did you read the last post for you? If not, please go here and read spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/258611/thread
You have realized that nothing can be done. That's cool, so who or what is doing whatever you see the body doing (perhaps walking to a store)? If "you" are not doing it (because nothing can be done), then who or what is doing it?
Consciousness Consciousness Consciousness
Consciousness Consciousness
Consciousness
I repeatedly said in my last comment. But I don't know whether you have read it or not. Once again who is doing? Consciousness.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 0:11:24 GMT -5
Today I took a walk, and thought about how I am not separable from reality. I did some experiments controlling my thoughts, trying to be aware of the process. I could say, "I will think of a color.", then I would choose "Blue". I felt there was an "I" that chose the "Blue" after thinking of the color, since my next thought was not "Grape-fruit." There was a logical continuation of thought that implied a thinker and doer. Why I choose to pick a color, as opposed to say, a favorite song, I cannot say. So my initial thought may have been more outside my conscious control. Since I thought these thoughts in English, that implies there is some dependency on learned behavior. I'm not sure what that means. Thinking on the subject of my lack of separation from reality, I tried to consider the implications of that. I can understand that "I" am reality on an intellectual level. I am beginning to understand in my heart, which is probably I came to this forum. I do not understand this in my bones. For me there seems to be three levels of understanding, intellectual, heart, and bones. If I understand something in my bones, I know it without thinking about it. I would say I know that I am not separate from reality "in my bones", but my sense of being reality is mostly intellectual, though now in my heart a little. I find myself going a little beyond the intellectual, thinking "You know, I probably really am reality itself". I've been reading here and in books about there is no doer, nothing be done, and nothing having anything done to it (subject,object,doing I guess). This feels untrue. If I am reality, then I can see how there is no doer, when I go for a walk, the universe is going for a walk. But I still see something being done, there is still activity. Legs are still being instructed to walk. If I say, "There cannot be something being done if there is no doer",it doesn't ring true. Likewise, if I say, there is no object being acted on, it also doesn't feel right. You are doing it, but your doing is not isolated from rest of the individuals in this universe. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 0:50:49 GMT -5
You are doing it, but your doing is not isolated from rest of the individuals in this universe. It's hard to imagine one consciousness driving all these little bodies around, living all these lives, or lies, or whatever they are. Yet, apparently that is what is happening. It's a dream, so others who are appearing in your consciousness is figment or real can't be known. But I know everything moves together. |
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veter
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Post by veter on May 13, 2015 4:35:36 GMT -5
Wholla,
>> Why I choose to pick a color, as opposed to say, a favorite song, I cannot say.
Exactly! It's just happend. And thoughts about thinker also just happens like other thoughts. Otherwise how did you choose to make a choice? And how did you choose to choose to make a choice? etc. There is no such things in experience, thoughts just happens.
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Post by tzujanli on May 13, 2015 5:11:49 GMT -5
I understand that i am all of reality, experiencing myself through this unique presence we call a body.. i have created this unique presence as an independent version of myself, such that there is authenticity is my self exploration, such that 'i' can't rig the exploration in favor of my preferences, i experience myself authentically.. How did you begin to understand that you are all of reality? Like meditation? Also, does this mean you are not afraid of dying, for example, you know you are the universe, and are eternal? I ask about fear of dying because that seems to be the litmus test for whether people are the universe or not. I want to continue this physical experience, it's a brilliant turn of evolution, and at the same time i'm not afraid of the unknown.. when that time comes, and it will, i will shed this physical experience, and.. i don't know what happens after that, though i have a suspicion based on experience, evidence, and understanding.. in any case, i embrace the inevitable and the unknown as another adventure on the journey of self-exploration.. I came to understand that i am both part and whole of all that 'is' through NDEs (Near Death Experiences) and CCEs (Cosmic Consciousness Experiences) and allowing myself to contemplate and understand my relationship with existence with a still mind's awareness.. seeing what is happening rather than projecting my beliefs onto what i see.. Thanks for asking... |
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Post by zendancer on May 13, 2015 7:17:24 GMT -5
Today I took a walk, and thought about how I am not separable from reality. I did some experiments controlling my thoughts, trying to be aware of the process. I could say, "I will think of a color.", then I would choose "Blue". I felt there was an "I" that chose the "Blue" after thinking of the color, since my next thought was not "Grape-fruit." There was a logical continuation of thought that implied a thinker and doer. Why I choose to pick a color, as opposed to say, a favorite song, I cannot say. So my initial thought may have been more outside my conscious control. Since I thought these thoughts in English, that implies there is some dependency on learned behavior. I'm not sure what that means. Thinking on the subject of my lack of separation from reality, I tried to consider the implications of that. I can understand that "I" am reality on an intellectual level. I am beginning to understand in my heart, which is probably I came to this forum. I do not understand this in my bones. For me there seems to be three levels of understanding, intellectual, heart, and bones. If I understand something in my bones, I know it without thinking about it. I would say I know that I am not separate from reality "in my bones", but my sense of being reality is mostly intellectual, though now in my heart a little. I find myself going a little beyond the intellectual, thinking "You know, I probably really am reality itself". I've been reading here and in books about there is no doer, nothing be done, and nothing having anything done to it (subject,object,doing I guess). This feels untrue. If I am reality, then I can see how there is no doer, when I go for a walk, the universe is going for a walk. But I still see something being done, there is still activity. Legs are still being instructed to walk. If I say, "There cannot be something being done if there is no doer",it doesn't ring true. Likewise, if I say, there is no object being acted on, it also doesn't feel right. Wholla: You're on the right track, but just watch what's happening rather than think about what's happening. You're also correct about knowing the truth "in your bones" (Adya calls the three levels "intellect," "heart," and "guts."), but I like your phraseology better. When you know that you are reality, itself, "in your bones," you won't have to think about it, and you will not worry about death. You will understand that there is no entity separate from reality that is born or dies. What you are looks out of the eyes of every living thing, and it is possible to know this without any doubt. At a certain point you will discover that what you imagined as your personal identity was a figment of imagination--a very powerful illusion--, and you will then be free. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 7:22:24 GMT -5
Today I took a walk, and thought about how I am not separable from reality. I did some experiments controlling my thoughts, trying to be aware of the process. I could say, "I will think of a color.", then I would choose "Blue". I felt there was an "I" that chose the "Blue" after thinking of the color, since my next thought was not "Grape-fruit." There was a logical continuation of thought that implied a thinker and doer. Why I choose to pick a color, as opposed to say, a favorite song, I cannot say. So my initial thought may have been more outside my conscious control. Since I thought these thoughts in English, that implies there is some dependency on learned behavior. I'm not sure what that means. Thinking on the subject of my lack of separation from reality, I tried to consider the implications of that. I can understand that "I" am reality on an intellectual level. I am beginning to understand in my heart, which is probably I came to this forum. I do not understand this in my bones. For me there seems to be three levels of understanding, intellectual, heart, and bones. If I understand something in my bones, I know it without thinking about it. I would say I know that I am not separate from reality "in my bones", but my sense of being reality is mostly intellectual, though now in my heart a little. I find myself going a little beyond the intellectual, thinking "You know, I probably really am reality itself". I've been reading here and in books about there is no doer, nothing be done, and nothing having anything done to it (subject,object,doing I guess). This feels untrue. If I am reality, then I can see how there is no doer, when I go for a walk, the universe is going for a walk. But I still see something being done, there is still activity. Legs are still being instructed to walk. If I say, "There cannot be something being done if there is no doer",it doesn't ring true. Likewise, if I say, there is no object being acted on, it also doesn't feel right. Wholla: You're on the right track, but just watch what's happening rather than think about what's happening. You're also correct about knowing the truth "in your bones" (Adya calls the three levels "intellect," "heart," and "guts."), but I like your phraseology better. When you know that you are reality, itself, "in your bones," you won't have to think about it, and you will not worry about death. You will understand that there is no entity separate from reality that is born or dies. What you are looks out of the eyes of every living thing, and it is possible to know this without any doubt. At a certain point you will discover that what you imagined as your personal identity was a figment of imagination--a very powerful illusion--, and you will then be free. Yet there is also a personal aspect which is also totally free. Isn't that amazing? |
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Post by zendancer on May 13, 2015 7:50:36 GMT -5
Wholla: You're on the right track, but just watch what's happening rather than think about what's happening. You're also correct about knowing the truth "in your bones" (Adya calls the three levels "intellect," "heart," and "guts."), but I like your phraseology better. When you know that you are reality, itself, "in your bones," you won't have to think about it, and you will not worry about death. You will understand that there is no entity separate from reality that is born or dies. What you are looks out of the eyes of every living thing, and it is possible to know this without any doubt. At a certain point you will discover that what you imagined as your personal identity was a figment of imagination--a very powerful illusion--, and you will then be free. Yet there is also a personal aspect which is also totally free. Isn't that amazing? Yes, and it's utterly fantastic! ha ha |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 8:23:30 GMT -5
Today I took a walk, and thought about how I am not separable from reality. I did some experiments controlling my thoughts, trying to be aware of the process. I could say, "I will think of a color.", then I would choose "Blue". I felt there was an "I" that chose the "Blue" after thinking of the color, since my next thought was not "Grape-fruit." There was a logical continuation of thought that implied a thinker and doer. Why I choose to pick a color, as opposed to say, a favorite song, I cannot say. So my initial thought may have been more outside my conscious control. Since I thought these thoughts in English, that implies there is some dependency on learned behavior. I'm not sure what that means. Thinking on the subject of my lack of separation from reality, I tried to consider the implications of that. I can understand that "I" am reality on an intellectual level. I am beginning to understand in my heart, which is probably I came to this forum. I do not understand this in my bones. For me there seems to be three levels of understanding, intellectual, heart, and bones. If I understand something in my bones, I know it without thinking about it. I would say I know that I am not separate from reality "in my bones", but my sense of being reality is mostly intellectual, though now in my heart a little. I find myself going a little beyond the intellectual, thinking "You know, I probably really am reality itself". I've been reading here and in books about there is no doer, nothing be done, and nothing having anything done to it (subject,object,doing I guess). This feels untrue. If I am reality, then I can see how there is no doer, when I go for a walk, the universe is going for a walk. But I still see something being done, there is still activity. Legs are still being instructed to walk. If I say, "There cannot be something being done if there is no doer",it doesn't ring true. Likewise, if I say, there is no object being acted on, it also doesn't feel right. Wholla: You're on the right track, but just watch what's happening rather than think about what's happening. You're also correct about knowing the truth "in your bones" (Adya calls the three levels "intellect," "heart," and "guts."), but I like your phraseology better. When you know that you are reality, itself, "in your bones," you won't have to think about it, and you will not worry about death. You will understand that there is no entity separate from reality that is born or dies. What you are looks out of the eyes of every living thing, and it is possible to know this without any doubt. At a certain point you will discover that what you imagined as your personal identity was a figment of imagination--a very powerful illusion--, and you will then be free. PURE NONSENSE because it's just speculation, while you can't know whether individual is real or figment how could you make such a conclusion. You are talking Pure nonsense, if you just stop advising others and try to look for yourself then you could find what nonsense you are talking here, but I know you never do because you are coming here to advice other and you never look or read what others say. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 9:06:31 GMT -5
Wholla: You're on the right track, but just watch what's happening rather than think about what's happening. You're also correct about knowing the truth "in your bones" (Adya calls the three levels "intellect," "heart," and "guts."), but I like your phraseology better. When you know that you are reality, itself, "in your bones," you won't have to think about it, and you will not worry about death. You will understand that there is no entity separate from reality that is born or dies. What you are looks out of the eyes of every living thing, and it is possible to know this without any doubt. At a certain point you will discover that what you imagined as your personal identity was a figment of imagination--a very powerful illusion--, and you will then be free. PURE NONSENSE because it's just speculation, while you can't know whether individual is real or figment how could you make such a conclusion. You are talking Pure nonsense, if you just stop advising others and try to look for yourself then you could find what nonsense you are talking here, but I know you never do because you are coming here to advice other and you never look or read what others say. For you it is speculation only because you are thinking. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 9:30:50 GMT -5
PURE NONSENSE because it's just speculation, while you can't know whether individual is real or figment how could you make such a conclusion. You are talking Pure nonsense, if you just stop advising others and try to look for yourself then you could find what nonsense you are talking here, but I know you never do because you are coming here to advice other and you never look or read what others say. For you it is speculation only because you are thinking. Sometime you speak something, other time you speak something else, huh? If you want to give support to zendancer nonsense, you go on do it. But you know we can't know anything beyond appearance, You can't know other individual is real or not, Said that, how could you proclaim the nonsense that One consciousness is looking through every eye? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 9:33:34 GMT -5
For you it is speculation only because you are thinking. Sometime you speak something, other time you speak something else, huh? If you want to give support to zendancer nonsense, you go on do it. But you know we can't know anything beyond appearance, You can't know other individual is real or not, Said that, how could you proclaim the nonsense that One consciousness is looking through every eye? I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 9:36:12 GMT -5
Sometime you speak something, other time you speak something else, huh? If you want to give support to zendancer nonsense, you go on do it. But you know we can't know anything beyond appearance, You can't know other individual is real or not, Said that, how could you proclaim the nonsense that One consciousness is looking through every eye? I have no idea what you are talking about. How could you anything beyond appearance? Other individual is also appearing in your consciousness like any other thing, If so, how would you know other individuals are real? Or they are having consciousness like you? You can't right? |
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