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Post by andrew on May 15, 2015 3:35:22 GMT -5
Ah interesting. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like you are saying that there is no free will in the absolute broadest sense. However, at a practical experiential level, in which time is experienced as unfolding, it IS possible to bend the probably line of the universe, and so at this level, there is free will. In all the sense you do not have freewill, freewill never become true for you, but you could act or decide as if you have freewill. That makes sense to me, 'acting or deciding as if you have freewill' is pretty much what I meant by 'practical experiential level'. To me, the most important thing is that we can act 'as if'. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:37:58 GMT -5
Have you read the book named 'power of now' by Tolle? he says that we could escape the suffering by concentrating on the present movement, But what I realized was, that's also another mind fantasy because it's exactly know where to end. So instead you are concentrating on the mind fantasy of outer world. Yes I have read Tolle's book. When you are concentrating on outer world where is the mind? This is the question might come from zendancer, but it's extremely clever to manipulate you to bring back to the fantasy world of thoughts. This is just a new creation which is what I have been telling him but he is thinking that I am making mistake here. Any attempt to do anything would ultimately surely fail because anything you do is the creation of mind. |
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Post by andrew on May 15, 2015 3:38:07 GMT -5
Hmmm. I think I must be misunderstanding your understandings slightly, because that doesn't sound like 'predetermination'. I am not disagreeing with what you said here to be clear. Predestination includes the bending the probable line too. Yes, I understand. Do you have an understanding as to where all this ends? Does it end? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:40:26 GMT -5
In all the sense you do not have freewill, freewill never become true for you, but you could act or decide as if you have freewill. That makes sense to me, 'acting or deciding as if you have freewill' is pretty much what I meant by 'practical experiential level'. To me, the most important thing is that we can act 'as if'. Yes we can act as if there we have freewill, but ultimately we are not having freewill, but this freewill illusion needs to be directly seen or mind might convince you onetime that you have freewill and another time it would convince you that you do not have. If you just hear from me, then it's just info for you as any other info. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:40:44 GMT -5
So instead you are concentrating on the mind fantasy of outer world. Yes I have read Tolle's book. When you are concentrating on outer world where is the mind? This is the question might come from zendancer, but it's extremely clever to manipulate you to bring back to the fantasy world of thoughts. This is just a new creation which is what I have been telling him but he is thinking that I am making mistake here. Any attempt to do anything would ultimately surely fail because anything you do is the creation of mind. Let's not talk about zendancer. You disapprove of practice but that is what you are doing by putting attention on outer world. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:40:47 GMT -5
Predestination includes the bending the probable line too. Yes, I understand. Do you have an understanding as to where all this ends? Does it end? what do you mean by end here? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:41:59 GMT -5
When you are concentrating on outer world where is the mind? This is the question might come from zendancer, but it's extremely clever to manipulate you to bring back to the fantasy world of thoughts. This is just a new creation which is what I have been telling him but he is thinking that I am making mistake here. Any attempt to do anything would ultimately surely fail because anything you do is the creation of mind. Let's not talk about zendancer. You disapprove of practice but that is what you are doing by putting attention on outer world. Good, let's not talk about zendancer. What I am doing? I don't get your second line? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:42:56 GMT -5
Let's not talk about zendancer. You disapprove of practice but that is what you are doing by putting attention on outer world. Good, let's not talk about zendancer. What I am doing? I don't get your second line? What you are describing is a practice. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:43:20 GMT -5
Good, let's not talk about zendancer. What I am doing? I don't get your second line? What you are describing is a practice. Anything you do to remove or gain something. |
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Post by andrew on May 15, 2015 3:43:22 GMT -5
That makes sense to me, 'acting or deciding as if you have freewill' is pretty much what I meant by 'practical experiential level'. To me, the most important thing is that we can act 'as if'. Yes we can act as if there we have freewill, but ultimately we are not having freewill, but this freewill illusion needs to be directly seen or mind might convince you onetime that you have freewill and another time it would convince you that you do not have. If you just hear from me, then it's just info for you as any other info. I've definitely seen there is no free will (on another forum I wrote hundreds, perhaps thousands, of messages arguing that there is no free will lol) but eventually it became unimportant to me whether we do, or don't, what became important was that we can act as if we do. |
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Post by andrew on May 15, 2015 3:44:10 GMT -5
Yes, I understand. Do you have an understanding as to where all this ends? Does it end? what do you mean by end here? Does all the manifestation, or life, come to an end? What's the end point of the predetermination? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:44:57 GMT -5
Yes we can act as if there we have freewill, but ultimately we are not having freewill, but this freewill illusion needs to be directly seen or mind might convince you onetime that you have freewill and another time it would convince you that you do not have. If you just hear from me, then it's just info for you as any other info. I've definitely seen there is no free will (on another forum I wrote hundreds, perhaps thousands, of messages arguing that there is no free will lol) but eventually it became unimportant to me whether we do, or don't, what became important was that we can act as if we do. Realizing the freewill is illusion and predestination gives you the power, because it gives you the feeling that nothing could happen unless it's ordain from above. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:45:40 GMT -5
what do you mean by end here? Does all the manifestation, or life, come to an end? What's the end point of the predetermination? Predestination or predetermination brings the purpose to the one who predestine this,Aren't you feeling so? |
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Post by andrew on May 15, 2015 3:47:37 GMT -5
What you are describing is a practice. Anything you do to remove or gain something. Do you ever experience irritability? What do you do with that irritability when it arises? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:51:51 GMT -5
Meditation to me means transcending thought. What do you achieve by concentrating on external phenomena. (Outer world) Have you read the book named 'power of now' by Tolle? he says that we could escape the suffering by concentrating on the present movement, But what I realized was, that's also another mind fantasy because it's exactly know where to end. I have always recommended practice and will never change my mind about that. You disapprove because you see practice as a temporary state created by mind. And that is true as a first step. But the second step is to go beyond that when you acquiesce in the silence prior to volitional thought. I am totally clear about this and will never feel challenged by those who say there is no practicer or how can you achieve what you already are and such nonsense. |
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