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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 20:29:31 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness.
Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action).
So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness.
The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 2, 2015 20:59:05 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 2, 2015 21:04:32 GMT -5
seeker: To do what you tell me I must be ceaselessly aware. Niz: To be aware is to be awake. Unaware means asleep. You are aware anyhow; you need not try to be. What you need is to be aware of being aware. Be aware deliberately and consciously; broaden and deepen the field of awareness. You are always conscious of the mind, but you are not aware of yourself as being conscious. ... seeker: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind? Niz: That which hears the question answers it. seeker: But who is it? Niz: Not who, but what. I am not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear to be a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and congnition, pur bliss of being. There is nothing I feel seperate from hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing. (from chapter 48 of "I AM THAT", "Awareness Is Free") It is the fact that every step, any step leads a practitioner away from where they are that a passive voice is often resorted to with respect to this awareness. In those moments, there is no mistaking what is noticed, and no question about what notices. It can seem like effort to some peeps but it's well worth the trouble for the chance to discover the chimera of it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 22:38:40 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. Why should that be of any concern? So you feel conflicted by this idea. Now go back to practicing that which you are really not and have no choice about. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 2, 2015 23:33:27 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. Put it all out front! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 6:52:26 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. And yet people sit zazen and engage in koan. Odd behavior indeed. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 3, 2015 9:55:13 GMT -5
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. Why should that be of any concern? So you feel conflicted by this idea. Now go back to practicing that which you are really not and have no choice about. I'm not conflicted by any idea because I know what I am. There is nothing that needs to be practiced because I already am what I am. Practice cannot get people any closer to THAT than they already are. This body practiced for many years until the illusion of selfhood collapsed. Afterwards, there was only freedom. The search ended when the imagined searcher was seen to have been an illusion. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 3, 2015 10:02:51 GMT -5
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. And yet people sit zazen and engage in koan. Odd behavior indeed. It's not at all odd unless it's imagined to be. This is what the cosmos does, and this is what the cosmos is. Some people climb mountains and run businesses; other people sit zazen. It is a perfect unfolding of isness, but don't get attached to these words. Ha ha. They're only pointers. People sit zazen until they no longer sit zazen. Some people continue to sit zazen even after Self-realization. This is also isness in action. Each human being is unique, but what animates human beings and looks out of all eyes is the Self, which is infinite. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 3, 2015 10:06:41 GMT -5
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether one shifts attention or not is also not a choice. It either happens, or it doesn't, and there isn't a someone who does it. Put it all out front! There are some people who can use that pointer, but there's really nothing that needs to be put anywhere, and no one separate who could do the putting. Ha ha. "Out front" is very funny! Anyone who finds a back or front to this has a good imagination. |
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Post by tenka on Mar 3, 2015 10:37:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't say practicing 'something' be it yoga or meditation or chanting 'ging gang goolie' all day long will bring you any closer to what you already are, but practicing certain things like what I mentioned above can bring about certain states of awareness .
Within such states of awareness certain things can be revealed that had previously gone unnoticed ..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 10:48:06 GMT -5
Why should that be of any concern? So you feel conflicted by this idea. Now go back to practicing that which you are really not and have no choice about. I'm not conflicted by any idea because I know what I am. There is nothing that needs to be practiced because I already am what I am. Practice cannot get people any closer to THAT than they already are. This body practiced for many years until the illusion of selfhood collapsed. Afterwards, there was only freedom. The search ended when the imagined searcher was seen to have been an illusion. Wonderful to hear that. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 3, 2015 11:03:54 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. Hey roy ........ I appreciate your view. By "Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action)." would for me, mean "Your being attracts your life". IOW, IMV (in my view) one still cannot directly do, in the physical realm, as you describe (maybe for a very long time, but not ultimately), but practice brings the unfolding of events in a different 'way'. Practice also brings a different order of value to one's life. What once was interesting is no longer found to be interesting. Life operates according to what we value. If you value things differently, this changes the influences you live under and this in turn changes the circumstances of one's life. And I would say, these influences do "not exist within the physical realm". So we could also say that interior practice is what allows us to live under a different level of influences. So, I am more in agreement with you than with ZD. ZD's view leaves no 'lever', no 'fulcrum', no "hope". The non-existence of a self, the existence of an illusory self (which seems also to be the non-existence of an illusory self), leaves no-point of possible 'realization', hopelessness. OK.....O....K...... Just saying, your view will not get much support here, but I haven't let that discourage me........and you (well....mostly your view) will receive subtle abuse....too.....(but not from ZD)..... and, likewise, satchitananda (while I'm here)............ This is a "Die Hard" non-dual forum....pretty-much.....  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 11:15:47 GMT -5
While it is not a physical action, there is surely something to do. Volition does not exist within the physical realm; we can't choose to go here or there and do this or that. There is a more fundamental level of choice, and that is where we place our awareness. Just as one may shift awareness to different individual conversations in the din of a room without physically moving, so can we shift awareness to seemingly different thoughts and/or sensations. Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action). So, the thing to do in regards to practice (this is all there is to do. Over and over and over...) is to shift the awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness. The result is awareness of Self/Reality. Abidance in/as such is realization. Hey roy ........ I appreciate your view. By "Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action)." would for me, mean "Your being attracts your life". IOW, IMV (in my view) one still cannot directly do, in the physical realm, as you describe (maybe for a very long time, but not ultimately), but practice brings the unfolding of events in a different 'way'. Practice also brings a different order of value to one's life. What once was interesting is no longer found to be interesting. Life operates according to what we value. If you value things differently, this changes the influences you live under and this in turn changes the circumstances of one's life. And I would say, these influences do "not exist within the physical realm". So we could also say that interior practice is what allows us to live under a different level of influences. So, I am more in agreement with you than with ZD. ZD's view leaves no 'lever', no 'fulcrum', no "hope". The non-existence of a self, the existence of an illusory self (which seems also to be the non-existence of an illusory self), leaves no-point of possible 'realization', hopelessness. OK.....O....K...... Just saying, your view will not get much support here, but I haven't let that discourage me........and you (well....mostly your view) will receive subtle abuse....too.....(but not from ZD)..... and, likewise, satchitananda (while I'm here)............ This is a "Die Hard" non-dual forum....pretty-much..... I am very much in the non dual camp if that wasn't clear. Advaita Vedanta to be precise. But even within that there are different views. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 11:23:45 GMT -5
The problem arises when the non dualists think they can understand it on an intellectual level. Well maybe they can but it is not Realization.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 12:16:26 GMT -5
Why should that be of any concern? So you feel conflicted by this idea. Now go back to practicing that which you are really not and have no choice about. I'm not conflicted by any idea because I know what I am. There is nothing that needs to be practiced because I already am what I am. Practice cannot get people any closer to THAT than they already are. This body practiced for many years until the illusion of selfhood collapsed. Afterwards, there was only freedom. The search ended when the imagined searcher was seen to have been an illusion. It is of vital importance to make a distinction here. This thread is referring to the practice (the 'thing to do') that assists in pulling consciousness out from the delusion of maya thus revealing Reality. It is not referring to the Reality itself. You are mixing the two. Special effort is required each and every time one recognises that they have fallen back into the delusion. I have found the practice I have put forth in the originating post to be the most direct and immediate 'Path' out of the delusion. No spiritual hokey-pokey routines are necessary. When consciousness finally no longer falls back into delusion but remains in/as Self/Reality practice/effort is no longer required. I see this problem with so many of these discussions. There needs to be recognition that there can be talk of practice and 'Path', but there cannot be talk of what the Path leads to. So often one person will say something valid about practice and then someone jumps in with some grand statement about the Absolute. Both are perspectives are usually valid, but when they are put together they clash, like QM and General Relativity. There needs to be a distinction. |
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