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Post by laughter on Mar 3, 2015 20:17:17 GMT -5
Your realization is the reason for your world. When I say: "You are the one reading this. Is there anyone else? If it works for you it works for everyone in your world." I'm not saying it will work for everyone, am I? I'm saying that if it works for you then that's enough. The words are the same for each person that reads them. My teaching is to point to Beingness as best I can. That is all. There is only one Beingness, so, the final step on the Path is the same for all. Already told ya' I don't have a world, and you see it's just as true that the words are not the same for everyone. |
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Post by lolly on Mar 4, 2015 5:29:10 GMT -5
I did a bit of practice, and mostly this is paying attention to some object like breath, and later on it seemed like object wasn't really necessary, just the attention.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 6:00:42 GMT -5
Your realization is the reason for your world. When I say: "You are the one reading this. Is there anyone else? If it works for you it works for everyone in your world." I'm not saying it will work for everyone, am I? I'm saying that if it works for you then that's enough. The words are the same for each person that reads them. My teaching is to point to Beingness as best I can. That is all. There is only one Beingness, so, the final step on the Path is the same for all. Already told ya' I don't have a world, and you see it's just as true that the words are not the same for everyone. So by saying you don't have a world are you denying that this is happening? These words are the same for everyone who reads them. Their interpretation may differ (a good reason to keep teaching/communication succinct and simple), but the words/physical symbols are the same. You have a way of complicating things. I prefer to see things as they are without reading other stuff into them. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 6:34:24 GMT -5
Hey roy ........ I appreciate your view. By "Subsequent level of (Self)awareness determines the unfolding of physicality (action)." would for me, mean "Your being attracts your life". IOW, IMV (in my view) one still cannot directly do, in the physical realm, as you describe (maybe for a very long time, but not ultimately), but practice brings the unfolding of events in a different 'way'. Practice also brings a different order of value to one's life. What once was interesting is no longer found to be interesting. Life operates according to what we value. If you value things differently, this changes the influences you live under and this in turn changes the circumstances of one's life. And I would say, these influences do "not exist within the physical realm". So we could also say that interior practice is what allows us to live under a different level of influences. So, I am more in agreement with you than with ZD. ZD's view leaves no 'lever', no 'fulcrum', no "hope". The non-existence of a self, the existence of an illusory self (which seems also to be the non-existence of an illusory self), leaves no-point of possible 'realization', hopelessness. OK.....O....K...... Just saying, your view will not get much support here, but I haven't let that discourage me........and you (well....mostly your view) will receive subtle abuse....too.....(but not from ZD)..... and, likewise, satchitananda (while I'm here)............ This is a "Die Hard" non-dual forum....pretty-much.....  SDP: Why do you assume "no hope?" I'm constantly telling peeps to shift attention away from thoughts to what can be seen, heard, felt, etc. From my POV that is the most efficacious thing I can do, and I do it with a vengeance. Of course, also from my POV, this body/mind has no choice in the matter, and it doesn't care! ha ha! I love telling peeps to shift attention away from thoughts because internal silence appears to foster realizations. I won't say that the effects of shifting attention are causal; I would rather say that the shifting and subsequent realizations are correlated. Things play out exactly as they do, but I certainly wouldn't say that there is no hope. People discover what Jesus called their "True Self" (and what Ramana called "The Self") right on schedule, just like fruit ripening on a tree. If you weren't interested in non-duality and realization, you wouldn't be on this forum. As I've pointed out before, I consider intense attentiveness, deep sincerity, and overwhelming curiosity to be highly predictive of realizations, and that's why I recommend attentiveness and inquiry. Those are the two things that appear to involve volition, but they don't. They are just an imaginary means to an imaginary end. After Self-realization, it is realized that the One who was attending and inquiring wasn't a person. Ha ha. What a joke! This is why I often say that SOI has a fantastic sense of humor. Anyone who really gets this will understand why Tolle giggles all the time. It is almost too funny for words. Then it's a new creation to the mind, it wouldn't allow people to realize anything. It's a game, mind would soon would repeat your act of shifting attention. Have you ever read Bible, Jesus has never talked about any true self or some sort of things, If you would like to find your own meaning out of what he said you could do that, but true investigation would reveal that Jesus is not speaking any such thing, he is expressing God as his own Father, he is telling that God has given his own begotten son to this world, whoever believes in him would go to the heaven, Aren't you clear that Jesus is expressing God as person? If you read the entire bible, it would be very clear that Jesus is expressing God as person, God is love,God is kind and so on. Stop find your meaning from the Bible. Second thing, stop reading the text which has been written after first century because that's too deviated from original teaching. Book of Thomos,Book of Mary,Book of Judith,Book of Judas were all written after first century. These are not the first century writing, First century writing follows here, Pauls epistles were written in 50 AD, Mark was written in 70AD immediately after Jewish war, Matthew,Luke,Acts were written in 80AD by using the reference of Mark. Read these books, don't go for the books which has been written after second century. If you really into it, you could say whatever was written is false or unbelievable, but you could not find your own meaning of out it. Just like pulling out some lines and finding your meaning doesn't work here. |
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Post by Ishtahota on Mar 4, 2015 6:55:13 GMT -5
You know that Mathew, Mark Luke and John are known as just Q. They do not know who the authors were. Jesus was a non-duality teacher who had others write down his teachings with minds that were in duality consciousness. That really screws up the teachings.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 6:57:18 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't read much anymore. If you actually attend to the practice of shifting awareness onto that which is shifting the awareness you will notice that the mind becomes still/silent. That's it. Reality/Self is the stillness/silence. Abide in/as that. Simple.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 4, 2015 8:51:50 GMT -5
SDP: Why do you assume "no hope?" I'm constantly telling peeps to shift attention away from thoughts to what can be seen, heard, felt, etc. From my POV that is the most efficacious thing I can do, and I do it with a vengeance. Of course, also from my POV, this body/mind has no choice in the matter, and it doesn't care! ha ha! I love telling peeps to shift attention away from thoughts because internal silence appears to foster realizations. I won't say that the effects of shifting attention are causal; I would rather say that the shifting and subsequent realizations are correlated. Things play out exactly as they do, but I certainly wouldn't say that there is no hope. People discover what Jesus called their "True Self" (and what Ramana called "The Self") right on schedule, just like fruit ripening on a tree. If you weren't interested in non-duality and realization, you wouldn't be on this forum. As I've pointed out before, I consider intense attentiveness, deep sincerity, and overwhelming curiosity to be highly predictive of realizations, and that's why I recommend attentiveness and inquiry. Those are the two things that appear to involve volition, but they don't. They are just an imaginary means to an imaginary end. After Self-realization, it is realized that the One who was attending and inquiring wasn't a person. Ha ha. What a joke! This is why I often say that SOI has a fantastic sense of humor. Anyone who really gets this will understand why Tolle giggles all the time. It is almost too funny for words. Then it's a new creation to the mind, it wouldn't allow people to realize anything. It's a game, mind would soon would repeat your act of shifting attention. Have you ever read Bible, Jesus has never talked about any true self or some sort of things, If you would like to find your own meaning out of what he said you could do that, but true investigation would reveal that Jesus is not speaking any such thing, he is expressing God as his own Father, he is telling that God has given his own begotten son to this world, whoever believes in him would go to the heaven, Aren't you clear that Jesus is expressing God as person? If you read the entire bible, it would be very clear that Jesus is expressing God as person, God is love,God is kind and so on. Stop find your meaning from the Bible. Second thing, stop reading the text which has been written after first century because that's too deviated from original teaching. Book of Thomos,Book of Mary,Book of Judith,Book of Judas were all written after first century. These are not the first century writing, First century writing follows here, Pauls epistles were written in 50 AD, Mark was written in 70AD immediately after Jewish war, Matthew,Luke,Acts were written in 80AD by using the reference of Mark. Read these books, don't go for the books which has been written after second century. If you really into it, you could say whatever was written is false or unbelievable, but you could not find your own meaning of out it. Just like pulling out some lines and finding your meaning doesn't work here. Gopal: I love having you on the forum because you give me a lot of laughs with some of your posts. You jump right in with both feet even if your knowledge doesn't match your energy. Ha ha. FYI there are an infinite number of ways that words can be interpreted and understood. Some people interpret the words of Jesus literally, and some people interpret his words metaphorically, or as pointers, only. Someone who has experienced oneness will interpret the words of historic spiritual figures far differently than someone who has not. There are dozens of interpretive issues regarding historical texts that you are probably unfamiliar with, and I suspect that because this body/mind is a voracious reader, it probably knows more about the Bible's history than you do. In fact, for ten years I wrote a newspaper column specifically for Christians, and later wrote a book about mystical Christianity (A Path to Christ Consciousness, Non-Conceptual Awareness Practice as a Doorway to the Infinite). At the beginning of that book I spent thirty pages explaining various interpretive issues that most people never even think about. Yes, I use quotes from every religious tradition to point to what I wish to point to, and I ignore the rest. So what? My best advice is to throw away ALL holy books, including books about Olas, and find the truth for yourself. BTW, there are numerous versions of the New Testament, and in some of them Jesus's words about oneness are not translated literally. Remember, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and his Aramaic words were translated into Greek. Many Greek words have multiple meanings, and some of them have no correlates in English. For example, the Greeks had six words for "love," but English only has one, and some Greek words have no direct correlates. Also, there are several scholars who think that the Gospel of Thomas dates from the first century and may more closely approximate what Jesus was pointing to than the canonized version of his words adopted at the Council of Nicea (when a power struggle in the early Christian churches was taking place). If you're interested in this subject, read some of the books by Elaine Pagels and other more open-minded scholars concerning writings from the Nag Hammadi Library. At the very least, find out where the deep water lies. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 4, 2015 8:52:52 GMT -5
You know that Mathew, Mark Luke and John are known as just Q. They do not know who the authors were. Jesus was a non-duality teacher who had others write down his teachings with minds that were in duality consciousness. That really screws up the teachings. Amen! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 9:09:46 GMT -5
Then it's a new creation to the mind, it wouldn't allow people to realize anything. It's a game, mind would soon would repeat your act of shifting attention. Have you ever read Bible, Jesus has never talked about any true self or some sort of things, If you would like to find your own meaning out of what he said you could do that, but true investigation would reveal that Jesus is not speaking any such thing, he is expressing God as his own Father, he is telling that God has given his own begotten son to this world, whoever believes in him would go to the heaven, Aren't you clear that Jesus is expressing God as person? If you read the entire bible, it would be very clear that Jesus is expressing God as person, God is love,God is kind and so on. Stop find your meaning from the Bible. Second thing, stop reading the text which has been written after first century because that's too deviated from original teaching. Book of Thomos,Book of Mary,Book of Judith,Book of Judas were all written after first century. These are not the first century writing, First century writing follows here, Pauls epistles were written in 50 AD, Mark was written in 70AD immediately after Jewish war, Matthew,Luke,Acts were written in 80AD by using the reference of Mark. Read these books, don't go for the books which has been written after second century. If you really into it, you could say whatever was written is false or unbelievable, but you could not find your own meaning of out it. Just like pulling out some lines and finding your meaning doesn't work here. Gopal: I love having you on the forum because you give me a lot of laughs with some of your posts. You jump right in with both feet even if your knowledge doesn't match your energy. Ha ha. FYI there are an infinite number of ways that words can be interpreted and understood. Some people interpret the words of Jesus literally, and some people interpret his words metaphorically, or as pointers, only. Someone who has experienced oneness will interpret the words of historic spiritual figures far differently than someone who has not. There are dozens of interpretive issues regarding historical texts that you are probably unfamiliar with, and I suspect that because this body/mind is a voracious reader, it probably knows more about the Bible's history than you do. In fact, for ten years I wrote a newspaper column specifically for Christians, and later wrote a book about mystical Christianity (A Path to Christ Consciousness, Non-Conceptual Awareness Practice as a Doorway to the Infinite). At the beginning of that book I spent thirty pages explaining various interpretive issues that most people never even think about. Yes, I use quotes from every religious tradition to point to what I wish to point to, and I ignore the rest. So what? My best advice is to throw away ALL holy books, including books about Olas, and find the truth for yourself. BTW, there are numerous versions of the New Testament, and in some of them Jesus's words about oneness are not translated literally. Remember, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and his Aramaic words were translated into Greek. Many Greek words have multiple meanings, and some of them have no correlates in English. For example, the Greeks had six words for "love," but English only has one, and some Greek words have no direct correlates. Also, there are several scholars who think that the Gospel of Thomas dates from the first century and may more closely approximate what Jesus was pointing to than the canonized version of his words adopted at the Council of Trent (when a power struggle in the early Christian churches was taking place). If you're interested in this subject, read some of the books by Elaine Pagels and other more open-minded scholars concerning writings from the Nag Hammadi Library. At the very least, find out where the deep water lies. he he, as usual you gave the funny reply, that's all right  I am seeing how terrific your understanding power really is!!!! I don't want to argue here, Just go and ask any rational person in the world(I said rational human) and give the book of Matthew,Mark,Luke ask them whether Jesus speaks about some kind of universal power or a Real person as Father. Just to curious, Have you ever made a rational decision in your life time? Or would you be accepting something illogical all the time? The best joke you have ever done was, One tv has multiple vision resembles to consciousness was having multiple perspective, And to prove this funny idea you were saying you have had some CC or DD or EE experience in your life, Enigma is much better than you, because he never affirms something which he doesn't know. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 4, 2015 9:36:20 GMT -5
I did a bit of practice, and mostly this is paying attention to some object like breath, and later on it seemed like object wasn't really necessary, just the attention.  |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 4, 2015 9:41:20 GMT -5
Gopal: I love having you on the forum because you give me a lot of laughs with some of your posts. You jump right in with both feet even if your knowledge doesn't match your energy. Ha ha. FYI there are an infinite number of ways that words can be interpreted and understood. Some people interpret the words of Jesus literally, and some people interpret his words metaphorically, or as pointers, only. Someone who has experienced oneness will interpret the words of historic spiritual figures far differently than someone who has not. There are dozens of interpretive issues regarding historical texts that you are probably unfamiliar with, and I suspect that because this body/mind is a voracious reader, it probably knows more about the Bible's history than you do. In fact, for ten years I wrote a newspaper column specifically for Christians, and later wrote a book about mystical Christianity (A Path to Christ Consciousness, Non-Conceptual Awareness Practice as a Doorway to the Infinite). At the beginning of that book I spent thirty pages explaining various interpretive issues that most people never even think about. Yes, I use quotes from every religious tradition to point to what I wish to point to, and I ignore the rest. So what? My best advice is to throw away ALL holy books, including books about Olas, and find the truth for yourself. BTW, there are numerous versions of the New Testament, and in some of them Jesus's words about oneness are not translated literally. Remember, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and his Aramaic words were translated into Greek. Many Greek words have multiple meanings, and some of them have no correlates in English. For example, the Greeks had six words for "love," but English only has one, and some Greek words have no direct correlates. Also, there are several scholars who think that the Gospel of Thomas dates from the first century and may more closely approximate what Jesus was pointing to than the canonized version of his words adopted at the Council of Trent (when a power struggle in the early Christian churches was taking place). If you're interested in this subject, read some of the books by Elaine Pagels and other more open-minded scholars concerning writings from the Nag Hammadi Library. At the very least, find out where the deep water lies. he he, as usual you gave the funny reply, that's all right I am seeing how terrific your understanding power really is!!!! I don't want to argue here, Just go and ask any rational person in the world(I said rational human) and give the book of Matthew,Mark,Luke ask them whether Jesus speaks about some kind of universal power or a Real person as Father. Just to curious, Have you ever made a rational decision in your life time? Or would you be accepting something illogical all the time? The best joke you have ever done was, One tv has multiple vision resembles to consciousness was having multiple perspective, And to prove this funny idea you were saying you have had some CC or DD or EE experience in your life, Enigma is much better than you, because he never affirms something which he doesn't know. You can ask Jesus yourself about this. He hasn't gone anywhere. Just look within. You'll find him with his Father, and neither one of them are who you might think. I know, I know, when I'm being serious, other people think I'm being funny. Ha ha. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 9:47:13 GMT -5
he he, as usual you gave the funny reply, that's all right I am seeing how terrific your understanding power really is!!!! I don't want to argue here, Just go and ask any rational person in the world(I said rational human) and give the book of Matthew,Mark,Luke ask them whether Jesus speaks about some kind of universal power or a Real person as Father. Just to curious, Have you ever made a rational decision in your life time? Or would you be accepting something illogical all the time? The best joke you have ever done was, One tv has multiple vision resembles to consciousness was having multiple perspective, And to prove this funny idea you were saying you have had some CC or DD or EE experience in your life, Enigma is much better than you, because he never affirms something which he doesn't know. You can ask Jesus yourself about this. He hasn't gone anywhere. Just look within. You'll find him with his Father, and neither one of them are who you might think. I know, I know, when I'm being serious, other people think I'm being funny. Ha ha.yeah you are right about what you say. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 4, 2015 9:49:17 GMT -5
Already told ya' I don't have a world, and you see it's just as true that the words are not the same for everyone. So by saying you don't have a world are you denying that this is happening? These words are the same for everyone who reads them. Their interpretation may differ (a good reason to keep teaching/communication succinct and simple), but the words/physical symbols are the same. You have a way of complicating things. I prefer to see things as they are without reading other stuff into them. No, the complication here, very clearly, is the refusal to directly answer a simple question.  This pointer is a good one and reminds me of another that I'm fond of, but I'm attached to no idea, and no, the fact that I don't have a world isn't a denial of the happening, but it is related and a pointer to that absence of attachment, and was in response to your assumption. What would you say to someone who rejects that pointer? What would you say to someone who analyzes it, criticizes it and contradicts it with some alternative idea? |
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Post by laughter on Mar 4, 2015 9:54:46 GMT -5
You know that Mathew, Mark Luke and John are known as just Q. They do not know who the authors were. Jesus was a non-duality teacher who had others write down his teachings with minds that were in duality consciousness. That really screws up the teachings. Yup, simple like that but the history of how it all spun out is as necessarily intricate as the details of any mans life, including everyone involved in producing the bible, are innumerable. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 10:19:21 GMT -5
So by saying you don't have a world are you denying that this is happening? These words are the same for everyone who reads them. Their interpretation may differ (a good reason to keep teaching/communication succinct and simple), but the words/physical symbols are the same. You have a way of complicating things. I prefer to see things as they are without reading other stuff into them. No, the complication here, very clearly, is the refusal to directly answer a simple question. This pointer is a good one and reminds me of another that I'm fond of, but I'm attached to no idea, and no, the fact that I don't have a world isn't a denial of the happening, but it is related and a pointer to that absence of attachment, and was in response to your assumption. What would you say to someone who rejects that pointer? What would you say to someone who analyzes it, criticizes it and contradicts it with some alternative idea? I would say what I say to everyone: "Simply find the thought-free state as often as you are able, and abide in/as it for as long as you are able." How's that for a pointer? Obvious? Only if actualized. How about if we stop blah blah blahing? I'm game if you are. |
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I am seeing how terrific your understanding power really is!!!! I don't want to argue here, Just go and ask any rational person in the world(I said rational human) and give the book of Matthew,Mark,Luke ask them whether Jesus speaks about some kind of universal power or a Real person as Father. Just to curious, Have you ever made a rational decision in your life time? Or would you be accepting something illogical all the time? The best joke you have ever done was, One tv has multiple vision resembles to consciousness was having multiple perspective, And to prove this funny idea you were saying you have had some CC or DD or EE experience in your life, Enigma is much better than you, because he never affirms something which he doesn't know. 
