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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:01:47 GMT -5
If I count to ten in my head, it's only ever happening now. I'm not sure if I'm missing the point entirely here (not enough sleep and haven't eaten breakfast  ) You're not missing anything that I can see. It's always now, even when we're thinking of the past or the future.  Time is just borrowed presence. It just so happens that nature has extended humanity an overabundant credit line.  What's being missed is that the advice to be present doesn't directly relate to time. It means cease attending to thoughts. |
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Post by laughter on Feb 11, 2015 22:02:09 GMT -5
Yes, I've been on a couple of these Easter egg hunts with you. They can go on for pages, and in the end it's just a lump of clay. are you sure its clay...  Well whatever it's a lump of it was stardust at some point, right??  |
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Post by laughter on Feb 11, 2015 22:06:57 GMT -5
You're not missing anything that I can see. It's always now, even when we're thinking of the past or the future. Time is just borrowed presence. It just so happens that nature has extended humanity an overabundant credit line. What's being missed is that the advice to be present doesn't directly relate to time. It means cease attending to thoughts. Ok, I see your point. A commonly reported experience is to have a major percentage of day-to-day thought trail away once it's realized that it's an unnecessary dwelling in either past or future, so time and watching thought are sort of linked that way. |
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Post by tzujanli on Feb 11, 2015 22:16:36 GMT -5
Now is the occasion of existence happening, possibility becoming reality through our experience of it.. If your mind is thinking about yesterday or tomorrow, the input of now is distorted through the lens of distracted awareness, muddled with inert memories and conditional predictions.. I understand what you're saying, but I also disagree with it. I can sit quietly with a cup of tea and watch thoughts come and go like tendrils of steam coming off the tea. Some of those thoughts may be memories, some may be predictions, but nothing is disturbed. I can also get totally lost, and frequently do!  I 'can', too.. and, i can be so absorbed in thought that i have no awareness of anything else happening.. Nothing is ever disturbed, other than the balance between what people say and what they do.. |
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Post by earnest on Feb 11, 2015 22:16:41 GMT -5
are you sure its clay... Well whatever it's a lump of it was stardust at some point, right?? That was pooped out by a star having an intense day  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:30:58 GMT -5
I can't find anything outside of what's happening now. Thinking about yesterday or tomorrow is still happening now. Now is the occasion of existence happening, possibility becoming reality through our experience of it.. If your mind is thinking about yesterday or tomorrow, the input of now is distorted through the lens of distracted awareness, muddled with inert memories and conditional predictions.. Yup |
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:34:25 GMT -5
Now is the occasion of existence happening, possibility becoming reality through our experience of it.. If your mind is thinking about yesterday or tomorrow, the input of now is distorted through the lens of distracted awareness, muddled with inert memories and conditional predictions.. I understand what you're saying, but I also disagree with it. I can sit quietly with a cup of tea and watch thoughts come and go like tendrils of steam coming off the tea. Some of those thoughts may be memories, some may be predictions, but nothing is disturbed. I can also get totally lost, and frequently do! Watching thoughts come and go like steamy tendrils may not be the same as "thinking about yesterday and tomorrow". |
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:36:05 GMT -5
Yes, I've been on a couple of these Easter egg hunts with you. They can go on for pages, and in the end it's just a lump of clay. are you sure its clay... Wha.......what else... could it be?  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:39:16 GMT -5
I spend a lot of time in nature, and I don't see animals with the kind of physical, emotional and survival issues that most humans have. I'm sure you can find a Youtube video to contradict that, in which case I suggest you take your own advice. Don't mess with goofy man, he's got a mean left hook.  But that would never happen to Bambi. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2015 22:41:02 GMT -5
What's being missed is that the advice to be present doesn't directly relate to time. It means cease attending to thoughts. Ok, I see your point. A commonly reported experience is to have a major percentage of day-to-day thought trail away once it's realized that it's an unnecessary dwelling in either past or future, so time and watching thought are sort of linked that way. Yuppers |
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Post by zin on Feb 12, 2015 5:50:22 GMT -5
I am ignorant about realizations. Do experiments help them happen? I think generally a concept of 'accident-proneness' is used here in this forum. I mean, are you advising anything about it? The truth is that the mind/body is safer when you are fully present in an expanded state of awareness than when you are in a contracted state of thinking, and so it makes sense that paying attention to how that works will show you the truth of it, right? You may already experience evidence of that truth without being in a constant state of expanded awareness, and not have noticed it because mind isn't interested in noticing it isn't in control. I'm suggesting noticing it. I don't know what that evidence might be for you, but have you ever 'programmed' yourself to wake up at a certain time, or had a solution to a problem suddenly come out of nowhere when you weren't thinking about it? Have you wondered how your body functions without you even knowing what it's doing or how it's doing it? Have you ever had the experience of someone throwing an object at your head and you spontaneously blocked it before your mind even understood what was happening? Have you ever followed your intuition and found it to be valid? Watch the animals of the forest, who are always present, and see how they are guided, cared for, fed and protected. All of nature, including humans, is a singular, integrated movement. That's what it means to say every hair is counted. Be a scientist with it, and be radically honest with yourself. (That's where most falter) Mind will try to explain it all away. Yes I have lived similar things to the ones you've mentioned in the 2nd paragraph and I've noticed the betterness of expanded awareness. All I am saying is that I forgot this the next day. Sort of, my organism forgot it. (This is also a reply to my "I am just stuck at the problem about habits." and your "I'm not sure I know what you mean." in another post.) Later Laughter said: "The defense mechanisms have been a long long time in the making, but every time we're conscious of them as they arise and play out, we have the opportunity to notice what it is that they are defending." The defense mechanisms arise and play out.. But I understand your OP. OK. |
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Post by zin on Feb 12, 2015 6:01:10 GMT -5
Have you read Tolle's "The Power of Now?" -- I ask this because you mentioned watching his videos. In it he acknowledges the value of mind and thought as tools. Life brings with it a score of legitimate concerns -- especially for a parent!  -- and sometiems thinking these through, making plans and using the mind to find solutions to the problems associated with the concerns is a great use of that tool. What is counter-intuitive, but can be discovered by subjective investigation, is that the defense mechanisms in many circumstances hinder the function of that tool. I said Adyashanti and Mooji videos. But I watched a little of Tolle, too, wanted to see his famous laughing And yes, I read that book. Thanks. |
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Post by tzujanli on Feb 12, 2015 6:22:49 GMT -5
I know what you are getting at by 'singular integrated movement', but I can't help but think you might benefit from taking a break from the Disneyland forest, and going to a real forest! I spend a lot of time in nature, and I don't see animals with the kind of physical, emotional and survival issues that most humans have. I'm sure you can find a Youtube video to contradict that, in which case I suggest you take your own advice. I've spent most of my life outdoors, a Land Surveyor specializing in large acquisitions for preservation projects, and as a participant in the natural wonder of it all.. as one animal is "guided, cared for, fed and protected", another becomes its food, often in what appears to be a brutal process, but also a brutal beauty.. the movement is indeed singular and integrated, and by necessity comprised of individuated parts that integrate, some willingly, some resisting, but all are included in the process happening.. To choose part over whole or whole over part is to create an artificial limitation in the mind's understanding.. the actual happening is the relationship between those understandings, which when the mind is still and clear the relationships are revealed in the absence of the part/whole perspective.. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 12, 2015 10:23:47 GMT -5
The truth is that the mind/body is safer when you are fully present in an expanded state of awareness than when you are in a contracted state of thinking, and so it makes sense that paying attention to how that works will show you the truth of it, right? You may already experience evidence of that truth without being in a constant state of expanded awareness, and not have noticed it because mind isn't interested in noticing it isn't in control. I'm suggesting noticing it. I don't know what that evidence might be for you, but have you ever 'programmed' yourself to wake up at a certain time, or had a solution to a problem suddenly come out of nowhere when you weren't thinking about it? Have you wondered how your body functions without you even knowing what it's doing or how it's doing it? Have you ever had the experience of someone throwing an object at your head and you spontaneously blocked it before your mind even understood what was happening? Have you ever followed your intuition and found it to be valid? Watch the animals of the forest, who are always present, and see how they are guided, cared for, fed and protected. All of nature, including humans, is a singular, integrated movement. That's what it means to say every hair is counted. Be a scientist with it, and be radically honest with yourself. (That's where most falter) Mind will try to explain it all away. Yes I have lived similar things to the ones you've mentioned in the 2nd paragraph and I've noticed the betterness of expanded awareness. All I am saying is that I forgot this the next day. Sort of, my organism forgot it. (This is also a reply to my "I am just stuck at the problem about habits." and your "I'm not sure I know what you mean." in another post.) Later Laughter said: "The defense mechanisms have been a long long time in the making, but every time we're conscious of them as they arise and play out, we have the opportunity to notice what it is that they are defending." The defense mechanisms arise and play out.. But I understand your OP. OK. Okay. The way I might say it is you chose to ignore it the next day, and this is where self honesty, sincerity and willingness come in. Your own experience is showing you evidence that you are being lived, and that your sense of control is an illusion that makes you more vulnerable, but you persist in the illusion. It isn't about habit. Habits are weak and we use them in a mind game of pretending to lose control of our imagined control so that we can get what we want. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 12, 2015 10:42:03 GMT -5
I spend a lot of time in nature, and I don't see animals with the kind of physical, emotional and survival issues that most humans have. I'm sure you can find a Youtube video to contradict that, in which case I suggest you take your own advice. I've spent most of my life outdoors, a Land Surveyor specializing in large acquisitions for preservation projects, and as a participant in the natural wonder of it all.. as one animal is "guided, cared for, fed and protected", another becomes its food, often in what appears to be a brutal process, but also a brutal beauty.. the movement is indeed singular and integrated, and by necessity comprised of individuated parts that integrate, some willingly, some resisting, but all are included in the process happening.. To choose part over whole or whole over part is to create an artificial limitation in the mind's understanding.. the actual happening is the relationship between those understandings, which when the mind is still and clear the relationships are revealed in the absence of the part/whole perspective.. Yes, death is part of life, and nature is not terrified of it as humans are. I understand the comments now about Disneyland forest and such, but to be cared for does not mean to live forever, and nobody really wants that anyway. Mind cannot make one live beyond his time, though it can interfere with the natural process so as to bring it on prematurely. |
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-- and sometiems thinking these through, making plans and using the mind to find solutions to the problems associated with the concerns is a great use of that tool.