|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 11:34:23 GMT -5
What sort of tribe are you thinking of? To my knowledge, there isn't one that doesn't self identify as separate persons, though I would be interested if there is. I usually suffer from TLT  I was not thinking anything special, just the usual impressions about tribes, at least a more natural environment. But I got curious, I will make a search on this later, ie about how children are raised in various tribes. Maybe there were such ones but then they got lost  An internet friend of mine from the Tolle board once posted some links to videos and articles about one tribe that supposedly had a language free of self-reference, and the artifact of recursion generally. Sometimes thinking is fun!  |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 12:06:43 GMT -5
It sounds like a culture that teaches that everything is done for the good of the tribe, which may be very useful for the survival of the tribe as a whole. It doesn't imply to me that there is less self identification. (I understand it may just have been the impetus to ask the question) Yes, I wrote somewhat in the last post, I hadn't understood self-identification well. Here I am not thinking as "group's interests versus individual's interests", my thought is more about lightening the pressure of focus-on-self by interaction with nature and with others as brothers (not as rivals). There may be something to it, and living more simply and close to nature. Though I can also see how loyalty to the tribe can mean aggression toward outsiders. Any small town in Texas can clarify that dynamic.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 12:31:17 GMT -5
It's possible to simultaneously see free-will as an illusion, and yet to expect persons to behave in accordance with the norms of the social contract, and to see that a perpetrators actions are the cumulative result of a long life of aberrant conditioning, and allow for the presumption of free-will and personal choice and intent as being some sort of metric for determining justice. The underlined in your post is a very very dead horse. Please refrain from the insult of continuing to whack at it. Anyone at anytime has the opportunity to let go of that conditioning, and the choice to ignore that opportunity based on beliefs about theories is the 'dead horse' you're still trying to ride.. Surely you consider the choosers background when understanding what they chose? if you're insulted, that's your choice, too.. Interesting. In other words, insults are in the eye of the insulted. But I know you are a man of honor and this would not fairly represent your views. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 13:01:39 GMT -5
The "escape hatch" is the illusion that you have no 'free-will', so that abusive behavior can be blamed on something other that the choice to be that way.. That's an opinion from the peep++ perspective.   |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 13:04:38 GMT -5
... and the slumber is just a fact.  .. peeps gettin' all offended by that metaphor as a put down is just a kinda' nice little bonus. Everybody 'falls asleep' in that way, so of course it's not meant as a personal insult, though it might be a wake up call.  |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 13:08:05 GMT -5
Well, as that's as vague as it is convoluted, I've responded in detail here out of respect for the others on the thread, but it's worth mentioning that the absence of volition very obviously doesn't mean that people can't be held accountable for harm done to others. In fact, it might be noticed than none of us nonvolitioners ever disclaim responsibility for what we say here. Shhhhhh!  yer ruinin' the narrative!  |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 13:09:50 GMT -5
If you picture culture as a sort of inverted pyramid, at the tip that is the base of the recognition of "me-in-the-world". Building on that is identification with the family unit and that in turn forms the basis of the clan which is the basic building block of the tribe. What comes after that?  Rules of behavior? That's probably even pre-tribal. Even wolves have a certain order at the dinner table. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 17:11:29 GMT -5
That's an opinion from the peep++ perspective. Medic!! |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 17:14:21 GMT -5
In fact, it might be noticed than none of us nonvolitioners ever disclaim responsibility for what we say here. Shhhhhh! yer ruinin' the narrative! All he has to do is repeat it a few more times, and it will be like I never mentioned it.  |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 17:16:20 GMT -5
That's probably even pre-tribal. Even wolves have a certain order at the dinner table. Okay, I'll change my answer to thermonuclear war. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 17:28:36 GMT -5
Relax, look away, and have somethin' from the concession stand ...   |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 17:29:41 GMT -5
Shhhhhh! yer ruinin' the narrative! All he has to do is repeat it a few more times, and it will be like I never mentioned it. What?? Peeps repeat themselves??  |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 14, 2015 17:31:59 GMT -5
That's probably even pre-tribal. Even wolves have a certain order at the dinner table. Okay, I'll change my answer to thermonuclear war. Peeps always drone on and on about ascension and angels and 2012 and yadda yadda yadda and ignore the miracle right under their noses that we've haven't blown ourselves away already. For all they know "The Big Shift" happened back in November 1962. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 21:24:05 GMT -5
Relax, look away, and have somethin' from the concession stand ... That looks familiar somehow.....  |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2015 21:37:42 GMT -5
All he has to do is repeat it a few more times, and it will be like I never mentioned it. What?? Peeps repeat themselves?? It's a genetic thang.  |
|
I was not thinking anything special, just the usual impressions about tribes, at least a more natural environment. But I got curious, I will make a search on this later, ie about how children are raised in various tribes. Maybe there were such ones but then they got lost 
yer ruinin' the narrative! 
