|
Post by enigma on Jun 7, 2013 20:23:49 GMT -5
Okayeth. Because something is known that was not known before and cannot be unknown. Isn't this why we don't want to expose children to aspects of the world in which they may 'lose their innocence'? We know that this cannot be undone because we ourselves have not been able to undo it for ourselves. The idea that you can let go of knowledge presupposes that you have control over the content of your own mind, in particular memory. How can you unknow what you know, especially if that knowledge continues to be confirmed in your experience? Can you 'unknow' man's selfishness and cruelty? Can you unknow man's suffering? "How can you unknow what you know?"
Dunno, just kinda seems to happen when the mind is just being still....the way I usually show people is to have them look at a tree, but just look at it, don't mentally define it, or even recognize it, just look....then stop looking...that can give you a glimpse through a kind of effort to be still...or you could just be, without making the effort to know, define, recognize, or remember, for me, that's pretty innocent, and about the easiest thing there is, because its kinda the natural state when you aren't moving about.It's a big word but it's not complicated. When you realize that what looks like a snake is really a rope, you have transcended the idea that it appears to be a snake. It still looks like a snake from a distance, and that knowledge hasn't gone anywhere or been let go of, but you've included that idea and gone beyond it and no longer struggle with it. Seems like you are talking about figuring stuff out in a way that you become comfortable with it, nothing wrong with that, especially if it helps open a space....but this business of "including ideas" to transcend something seems like adding something to try and remove something.., that's too complicated for me :-) To see that a mirage is just a mirage is not adding something. The idea that it's an oasis just goes bye-bye. How can that be too complicated for you?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jun 7, 2013 20:28:32 GMT -5
yes, I'd say that fully letting go is about being at one with the moment. So long as thoughts are still being entertained pertaining to what happened in the past or what might happen in the future, OR about the very existence of a past or future, ideas such as, 'we cannot let go completely' will continue to fill our cup. I'd say it's that very idea itself, (that we cannot let go completely) that gets dumped out with all of the other content that is presently filling our cup, in order for innocence to be. But if we're hanging onto ideas like that and calling them truth, they're going to be pretty sticky and pretty hard to dump out...almost like a cup full of honey...just not as sweet. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I don't remember much of what I read this morning. Where did the idea that we can't let go completely come from?
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2013 20:30:24 GMT -5
To see that a mirage is just a mirage is not adding something. The idea that it's an oasis just goes bye-bye. How can that be too complicated for you? Dear Dude/Dudette, Seems we've got someone here who thinks distinguishing between true/false is false. He rather follows the mirage and eats the sand when he arrives at the spot where the saw the water shimmering from a distance. I wonder how good that will feel. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jun 7, 2013 20:33:13 GMT -5
Lots of replies here, too many to adress individually, some really good ones. Thank you! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Thing is, I've been struggling with judgements. Struggling to "get rid of them", but also not recognising judgements and so not being aware of them. This, for example, led to some inner rage agains a friend of mine who's very, very lost in stories of inadequasy and judgements against everything. She's just refusing to be helped in any way and the complaints go on and on. This frustrated me a lot and I thought I had to "help" her become more conscious. This inevitably failed and I guess I learned a lot. But there continued to be conflict within me even tough I "had let go of" trying to change her. There continued to be a subtle rage against her for not just f.ucking seeing through her bul.lnuts stories (yeah, that kinda rage). It then struck me that in order for me to really let her off the hook I would have to see her as innocent. I would have to see me as innocent, I would have to see everything innocent. There really IS no one there doing anything and as long as there is, there can't be innocence.This feels both good and bad. It feels good to let go of the burden (and subtle egoic pleasure) of having to judge and it's a defeat, obviously, for the ego, which doesn't feel good. But have you noticed that the ego doesn't actually feel good, like, ever? What it deems "feeling good", upon investigation, doesn't have the qualities of letting go and true forgiveness. It's always a conditional feeling good, and often it's loaded with contractions, in my experience. I'm also noticing how seeing the world through innocence reveals otherwise hidden judgements. As long as there's judgement, there is someONE there doing something. So again, kinda scary and very humbling. Zackly.
|
|
|
Post by Beingist on Jun 7, 2013 20:42:21 GMT -5
Lots of replies here, too many to adress individually, some really good ones. Thank you! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Thing is, I've been struggling with judgements. Struggling to "get rid of them", but also not recognising judgements and so not being aware of them. This, for example, led to some inner rage agains a friend of mine who's very, very lost in stories of inadequasy and judgements against everything. She's just refusing to be helped in any way and the complaints go on and on. This frustrated me a lot and I thought I had to "help" her become more conscious. This inevitably failed and I guess I learned a lot. But there continued to be conflict within me even tough I "had let go of" trying to change her. There continued to be a subtle rage against her for not just f.ucking seeing through her bul.lnuts stories (yeah, that kinda rage). It then struck me that in order for me to really let her off the hook I would have to see her as innocent. I would have to see me as innocent, I would have to see everything innocent. There really IS no one there doing anything and as long as there is, there can't be innocence. This feels both good and bad. It feels good to let go of the burden (and subtle egoic pleasure) of having to judge and it's a defeat, obviously, for the ego, which doesn't feel good. But have you noticed that the ego doesn't actually feel good, like, ever? What it deems "feeling good", upon investigation, doesn't have the qualities of letting go and true forgiveness. It's always a conditional feeling good, and often it's loaded with contractions, in my experience. I'm also noticing how seeing the world through innocence reveals otherwise hidden judgements. As long as there's judgement, there is someONE there doing something. So again, kinda scary and very humbling. Cool. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jun 7, 2013 20:46:17 GMT -5
To see that a mirage is just a mirage is not adding something. The idea that it's an oasis just goes bye-bye. How can that be too complicated for you? Dear Dude/Dudette, Seems we've got someone here who thinks distinguishing between true/false is false. He rather follows the mirage and eats the sand when he arrives at the spot where the saw the water shimmering from a distance. I wonder how good that will feel. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 20:51:07 GMT -5
Dear Dude/Dudette, Seems we've got someone here who thinks distinguishing between true/false is false. He rather follows the mirage and eats the sand when he arrives at the spot where the saw the water shimmering from a distance. I wonder how good that will feel. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? How is what possible to function that-a-way? We've had true/false and knowledge since the beginning of time. And it seems that it's taken man to the brink of his own destruction. Yet that which is not true/false and knowledge keeps on keeping on... ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jun 7, 2013 21:01:59 GMT -5
Toward where you already are. So if it feels good you're going towards where you already are? What about if it feels bad?
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jun 7, 2013 21:08:53 GMT -5
We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? I suspect it might be nothing more than BS but I may need to let go of my attachment to BS before I can verify the non true/falseness of the situation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 21:17:56 GMT -5
We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? I suspect it might be nothing more than BS but I may need to let go of my attachment to BS before I can verify the non true/falseness of the situation. Your suspicions of BS have been honed... Best not to dull them with idiotic ideas ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 21:20:13 GMT -5
To see that a mirage is just a mirage is not adding something. The idea that it's an oasis just goes bye-bye. How can that be too complicated for you? Are you talking about eliminating an idea by replacing it with a more righter one, so that the old wronger one goes away? That's cool if you are, could be the best approach for something I don't understand I guess... but at the risk of sounding repetitive....that's to complicated for me....
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jun 7, 2013 21:26:44 GMT -5
Dear Dude/Dudette, Seems we've got someone here who thinks distinguishing between true/false is false. He rather follows the mirage and eats the sand when he arrives at the spot where the saw the water shimmering from a distance. I wonder how good that will feel. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? Dear Dude/Dudette, Simple reason for that. They don't see clearly. They did the discerning in the past and since it was minding and not seeing, it didn't work out well. So the conclusion is the true/false thingy must be false. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 21:27:17 GMT -5
Toward where you already are. So if it feels good you're going towards where you already are? What about if it feels bad? I don't know, if you come up with a solution for that, can you tell me? Seems like a lot of wheel spinning without going anywhere though doesn't it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 21:47:02 GMT -5
Dear Dude/Dudette, Seems we've got someone here who thinks distinguishing between true/false is false. He rather follows the mirage and eats the sand when he arrives at the spot where the saw the water shimmering from a distance. I wonder how good that will feel. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way?I don't know.....but thanks to God, it seems to be working out rather well :-) I went for a walk earlier today, and it seemed like I did not exist, that nothing exists, only God....everywhere I looked, there was only God Could be that this is the truth, and this might be why things seem to work out just fine no matter what....but who knows really....I certainly don't. Do you?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2013 22:00:51 GMT -5
Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? Dear Dude/Dudette, Simple reason for that. They don't see clearly. They did the discerning in the past and since it was minding and not seeing, it didn't work out well. So the conclusion is the true/false thingy must be false.
Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize I think you were talking to Enigma there, so forgive me if I'm being rude by jumping in here... I think there is strong possibility that you are 100% right about anyone that thinks "the true/false thingy must be false" :-) I am confused about something though.....What's the difference between "minding" and "seeing"? Is it in some way beneficial to know what the difference is? Also, what knows the difference between "minding" and "seeing"....is it the mind, or the seeing, or something else entirely? And finally, are you ABSOLUTELY sure of your answers....most of the time when I've thought that the answer that I had was the only right one, I was wrong ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png)
|
|