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Post by tzujanli on Jun 13, 2013 18:01:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't think that anything is is unknowable, in fact, I think that everything IS knowable, even stuff about stuff that we can't imagine yet ;-) But I also haven't found any evidence to say that one truth is truthier than another, even when it seems so by being supported by the clarity of the "Witness" or "Seeing" "What IS" etc. So I guess it's possibly unknowable to know if your truth is truthier than anyone else's, as seemingly strong evidence can be offered for the truthiness of about any position. That's why the best lawyers usually win. When a good lawyer doesn't have a very strong case, they can still win by controlling the conversation ;-) I can offer evidence that it's more truthy that it's Thursday than Monday, so I guess some kinds of truthiness are more truthy than others? Do you see this trail leading down the bunny hole?So.. do it.. let's explore our differing understandings.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:06:30 GMT -5
I don't need an answer for it cuz I don't believe truth is relative, and therefore arbitrary. I say there are illusions that lead to suffering, and actualities that can result in freedom, so there is a point to all this. If truth isn't arbritrary, or relative, then where or what is it? Well, that's one of the topics we discuss here on a regular basis. The idea that all ideas are equally true or equally false or irrelevant is another topic. I don't see all ideas as being equally true, valid or useful. Maybe I'm about to lose my nondualist card? Does non-volition mean to you that knowing something can't result in change?
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Post by silence on Jun 13, 2013 18:06:59 GMT -5
Even if I have an appointment on Thursday, and I experience it to be true that its a Thursday, I am not bought into the truth that its a Thursday i.e. I am not attached to the truth that its a Thursday. And that doesn't mean that I believe its true within some context that its a Thursday but can see that its not 'ultimately true' that its a Thursday!! It just means I don't experience a need to believe ideas to be true/false. That's the most ridiculous nonsense I've read in a while.
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Post by silence on Jun 13, 2013 18:08:17 GMT -5
Greetings.. Life is Life, and it's beautifully elegantly simple.. just look and see for yourself.. People like Enigma, and a few others, need to get all theoretical and create beliefs and illusions that they can hold-on to and feel safe from taking responsibility for their own existence,, they'll pretend they don't have a choice, so when they get spiritually violent they can absolve themselves.. they'll say there is no volition/choice, then tell you to choose to agree with their beliefs.. just let those beliefs go, and see what is actually happening.. if you see suffering, DO something, rather than theorizing a belief system about it.. it's really that simple.. Be well.. Let go of our beliefs and take on your 'understandings' right?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 18:12:15 GMT -5
If truth isn't arbritrary, or relative, then where or what is it? Well, that's one of the topics we discuss here on a regular basis. The idea that all ideas are equally true or equally false or irrelevant is another topic. I don't see all ideas as being equally true, valid or useful. Maybe I'm about to lose my nondualist card? Does non-volition mean to you that knowing something can't result in change? Not change that "you" or "I" Can affectuate. So non-volition affectively means that knowing something is useless :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 18:16:06 GMT -5
I don't think that anything is is unknowable, in fact, I think that everything IS knowable, even stuff about stuff that we can't imagine yet ;-) But I also haven't found any evidence to say that one truth is truthier than another, even when it seems so by being supported by the clarity of the "Witness" or "Seeing" "What IS" etc. So I guess it's possibly unknowable to know if your truth is truthier than anyone else's, as seemingly strong evidence can be offered for the truthiness of about any position. That's why the best lawyers usually win. When a good lawyer doesn't have a very strong case, they can still win by controlling the conversation ;-) I can offer evidence that it's more truthy that it's Thursday than Monday, so I guess some kinds of truthiness are more truthy than others? Do you see this trail leading down the bunny hole? You can offer truthy evidence that its Thursday for you, and in this case quite a few other people, but that's no evidence of a truth that's always true, even today, on Thursday ;-) What day is it in Singhapor right now :-) Also, I can pull out some Quantum Mechanics mathematics that "Prove" with as much certianty as 1+1=2 that we live in a hyper dimensional universe with infinite variability, and that someplace, right now, it's Monday for you at this moment. Just sayin....
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:21:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. Oh, that's God. (Or the Holy Hippo, if you prefer) Great, another idea/belief.. what would you do without 'words'? point and smile? point and frown? maybe, actually DO something? Which 'God' is it that you are imagining? Cosmic Puppeteer? money? Lives on Olympus? You're gonna really be amazed when you experience Life through the perspective of a still and silent mind.. those belief just fall away.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 18:24:02 GMT -5
Additionally, your kinda agreeing that its more" truthy" that's it Thursday instead of Monday....that's all I'm saying, Truth is really varying degrees of truthiness dependent upon perspective, which makes it relative....it's relativity renders it irrelevant.
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:24:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. I can offer evidence that it's more truthy that it's Thursday than Monday, so I guess some kinds of truthiness are more truthy than others? Do you see this trail leading down the bunny hole? So.. do it.. let's explore our differing understandings.. Be well.. You want me to prove that it's Thursday??
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:30:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. You (Tzu) ARE conditioning only. Not only can you not exist apart from conditioning, you don't exist with it. There is just the belief that you do, and it's not even 'your' belief. I wish you were capable of understanding the absurdity of your statement.. Well, at least you seem open to the possibility. Hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 18:32:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. So.. do it.. let's explore our differing understandings.. Be well.. You want me to prove that it's Thursday?? I want you to prove that it's more than just "Truthy" that it's Thursday ;-) Ultimately, the consensus will likely be determined by who does the best lawyering. Can we assign surrogates for that lol I call dibs on Blue ;-) But will take Question or Top if he's not available hehehe Sorry Laffy, you'd be top of the list if I wasn't worried you'd spray the jurors in the eye with wunna those squirt got flowers on your lapel while giving oral arguments :-)
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:34:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean here by absolutely subjective. It's not just your personal opinion that it's Thursday. It really is Thursday. If you have an important appointment on Thursday, it might be wise to buy into the truth that today is Thursday. In the context of your appointment, I swear to the Holy Hippo that it really IS Thursday. I don't either. I don't even know what that would look like. No, it's wrong for lots of other reasons that have nothing to do with how free you are. You can prove that its true that its a Thursday? How are you going to prove that? Don't get me wrong, I experience it to be true that its Thursday but just because I experience it to be true, doesn't make it necessarily the truth. You claim that it really actually IS Thursday? I know, I know, I'm going way out on a limb here. Always the skeptical eye. Good on you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 18:35:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. I wish you were capable of understanding the absurdity of your statement.. Well, at least you seem open to the possibility. Hehe. LOL ZING! He got ya there TZU.
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Post by enigma on Jun 13, 2013 18:37:14 GMT -5
Even if I have an appointment on Thursday, and I experience it to be true that its a Thursday, I am not bought into the truth that its a Thursday i.e. I am not attached to the truth that its a Thursday. And that doesn't mean that I believe its true within some context that its a Thursday but can see that its not 'ultimately true' that its a Thursday!! It just means I don't experience a need to believe ideas to be true/false. That's the most ridiculous nonsense I've read in a while. Note to self: Don't make any appointments with Andrew.
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Post by andrew on Jun 13, 2013 18:40:39 GMT -5
I don't think that anything is is unknowable, in fact, I think that everything IS knowable, even stuff about stuff that we can't imagine yet ;-) But I also haven't found any evidence to say that one truth is truthier than another, even when it seems so by being supported by the clarity of the "Witness" or "Seeing" "What IS" etc. So I guess it's possibly unknowable to know if your truth is truthier than anyone else's, as seemingly strong evidence can be offered for the truthiness of about any position. That's why the best lawyers usually win. When a good lawyer doesn't have a very strong case, they can still win by controlling the conversation ;-) I can offer evidence that it's more truthy that it's Thursday than Monday, so I guess some kinds of truthiness are more truthy than others? Do you see this trail leading down the bunny hole? Go on then. Prove that its Thursday not Monday. What evidence have you got that isn't just a bunch of ideas?
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