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Post by tzujanli on Jun 11, 2013 9:35:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. I know that this is at least partly in jest but it confirms tzu's worst suspicions of the imagined evil-doers that populate the forum ... TGHOBFKAR and I have had this discussion a few times and I could tell from the first month of conversation with tzu that this possibility was very very remote. His history with this stuff is quite deep, and despite the contradictions and projections, so is his tether to clarity and stillness. As people develop successful coping mechanisms, they tend to get set in their ways and do not question their own biases and filters anymore. Because there is no more internal cognitive dissonance it becomes easy to dismiss any external influences which might generate it. The stillness and clarity achieved through self-maintenance is not the stillness and clarity that transcends the conditioning of the mind. It's just stillness and clarity.. why do you need to try to fit it into your beliefs? Be well..
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Post by topology on Jun 11, 2013 9:44:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. From gang to Borg? I suppose you'd have to change the term since the gang-members you've passively identified are mostly critical of Steve. So you can't put Steve in the gang, but he's also being critical of you, so you have to find some new hive-mind structure to encompass all the people who are critical of you... Borg. Now you can be proud of your resistance and refusal to be assimilated. Just another way to paint yourself as a studly hero. LOL.. no surprise here.. nice of you to join in.. Be well.. Where is the fostering of an open honest discussion when you call someone a Borg member?
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Post by topology on Jun 11, 2013 9:53:00 GMT -5
Greetings.. As people develop successful coping mechanisms, they tend to get set in their ways and do not question their own biases and filters anymore. Because there is no more internal cognitive dissonance it becomes easy to dismiss any external influences which might generate it. The stillness and clarity achieved through self-maintenance is not the stillness and clarity that transcends the conditioning of the mind. It's just stillness and clarity.. why do you need to try to fit it into your beliefs? Be well.. They are not my beliefs, it is my experience. The same terms are used to refer to two different things, which is a source of confusion for many. Analogy: TV and movie playing on the screen. The TV is still and clear even when the picture that is rendered is in chaos and discord. For lack of a better word, Consciousness is the TV, and the experience playing out is the movie. The stillness and clarity of consciousness is ever present and unconditional. The stillness and clarity of the mind or the experience are transitory and conditional.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 10:40:42 GMT -5
I think he pretty much has the exact same position on just about everything that I did back then...there is a good chunk of what he says that I still Rez with, but man, there's a whooooooole bunch if stuff that I wish I get could get my "former" self to just let go of....but I kinda know where he's at right now, and there isn't a whole lotta room in there for any outside advice with all that stillness and clarity. If I didn't think he'd just hop over to another forum I'd probably be trying to figure out how to get him banned from here out of love for him so he could get a little "space" and settling lolI know that this is at least partly in jest but it confirms tzu's worst suspicions of the imagined evil-doers that populate the forum ... TGHOBFKAR and I have had this discussion a few times and I could tell from the first month of conversation with tzu that this possibility was very very remote. His history with this stuff is quite deep, and despite the contradictions and projections, so is his tether to clarity and stillness. Well, for what it's worth, I think this forum is absolutely a better place for having TZU around!,.....but I'm not sure TZU is a better place for having the forum around lol But wuddo I know?........not much
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 10:52:25 GMT -5
Greetings.. I know that this is at least partly in jest but it confirms tzu's worst suspicions of the imagined evil-doers that populate the forum ... TGHOBFKAR and I have had this discussion a few times and I could tell from the first month of conversation with tzu that this possibility was very very remote. His history with this stuff is quite deep, and despite the contradictions and projections, so is his tether to clarity and stillness. I wish it were possible for y'all to see your own attachments to having 'Tzu' think and believe like you do.. i mean really attached.. sounds like committees, secret meetings, plots, etc.. what i observe is people experiencing separation, feeling threatened by its conflict with their beliefs.. then, like the Borg from Star Trek, acting to assimilate the contradicting entity.. i see no interest in discussion that is open and honest, only interest in discussion that is intended to assimilate the contradicting entity.. it's especially touching to see the trite but sometimes effective manipulation: 'You poor thing, i remember when i was like you, but.. now i'm healed, and i'm so much better than you', LOL.. Be well.. The Borg imagery is very good. Sometime previously that same opponent is who I imagined you were up against. It's like all these nondual/advaitist chumps are just parroting what they learn online, through satsangs and books. It's just another groupthink. Good to have you around. I don't think Steve would be welcome with that particular cube though. He's currently going all rad with God and stuff. Maybe a different cube, heck if I know. How do you discern open and honest communication from just a sneaky way of 'assimilating the contradicting entity'? Seems like it could be really tough! Trust is probably the first directive for this strategy.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 11, 2013 13:00:04 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I wish it were possible for y'all to see your own attachments to having 'Tzu' think and believe like you do.. i mean really attached.. sounds like committees, secret meetings, plots, etc.. what i observe is people experiencing separation, feeling threatened by its conflict with their beliefs.. then, like the Borg from Star Trek, acting to assimilate the contradicting entity.. i see no interest in discussion that is open and honest, only interest in discussion that is intended to assimilate the contradicting entity.. it's especially touching to see the trite but sometimes effective manipulation: 'You poor thing, i remember when i was like you, but.. now i'm healed, and i'm so much better than you', LOL.. Be well.. The Borg imagery is very good. Sometime previously that same opponent is who I imagined you were up against. It's like all these nondual/advaitist chumps are just parroting what they learn online, through satsangs and books. It's just another groupthink. Good to have you around. I don't think Steve would be welcome with that particular cube though. He's currently going all rad with God and stuff. Maybe a different cube, heck if I know. How do you discern open and honest communication from just a sneaky way of 'assimilating the contradicting entity'? Seems like it could be really tough! Trust is probably the first directive for this strategy. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day.. Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well..
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Post by topology on Jun 11, 2013 13:09:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. The Borg imagery is very good. Sometime previously that same opponent is who I imagined you were up against. It's like all these nondual/advaitist chumps are just parroting what they learn online, through satsangs and books. It's just another groupthink. Good to have you around. I don't think Steve would be welcome with that particular cube though. He's currently going all rad with God and stuff. Maybe a different cube, heck if I know. How do you discern open and honest communication from just a sneaky way of 'assimilating the contradicting entity'? Seems like it could be really tough! Trust is probably the first directive for this strategy. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day..Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well.. You've told us to see a Borg.
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Post by silver on Jun 11, 2013 13:16:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day..Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well.. You've told us to see a Borg. That sounded stubborn and stupid (the comment), Top. Now you're down here with - me. Forget Bell Curves, heh.
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Post by laughter on Jun 11, 2013 14:52:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. I know that this is at least partly in jest but it confirms tzu's worst suspicions of the imagined evil-doers that populate the forum ... TGHOBFKAR and I have had this discussion a few times and I could tell from the first month of conversation with tzu that this possibility was very very remote. His history with this stuff is quite deep, and despite the contradictions and projections, so is his tether to clarity and stillness. I wish it were possible for y'all to see your own attachments to having 'Tzu' think and believe like you do.. i mean really attached.. sounds like committees, secret meetings, plots, etc.. what i observe is people experiencing separation, feeling threatened by its conflict with their beliefs.. then, like the Borg from Star Trek, acting to assimilate the contradicting entity.. i see no interest in discussion that is open and honest, only interest in discussion that is intended to assimilate the contradicting entity.. it's especially touching to see the trite but sometimes effective manipulation: 'You poor thing, i remember when i was like you, but.. now i'm healed, and i'm so much better than you', LOL.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jun 11, 2013 14:55:27 GMT -5
I know that this is at least partly in jest but it confirms tzu's worst suspicions of the imagined evil-doers that populate the forum ... TGHOBFKAR and I have had this discussion a few times and I could tell from the first month of conversation with tzu that this possibility was very very remote. His history with this stuff is quite deep, and despite the contradictions and projections, so is his tether to clarity and stillness. As people develop successful coping mechanisms, they tend to get set in their ways and do not question their own biases and filters anymore. Because there is no more internal cognitive dissonance it becomes easy to dismiss any external influences which might generate it. The stillness and clarity achieved through self-maintenance is not the stillness and clarity that transcends the conditioning of the mind. Yes, this is the trap that Silence outlined -- it seems to the individual as though he has control over the source of thoughts and this reinforces his sense of what enigma refers to as his separate volitional individuality.
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Post by laughter on Jun 11, 2013 15:00:30 GMT -5
Greetings.. The Borg imagery is very good. Sometime previously that same opponent is who I imagined you were up against. It's like all these nondual/advaitist chumps are just parroting what they learn online, through satsangs and books. It's just another groupthink. Good to have you around. I don't think Steve would be welcome with that particular cube though. He's currently going all rad with God and stuff. Maybe a different cube, heck if I know. How do you discern open and honest communication from just a sneaky way of 'assimilating the contradicting entity'? Seems like it could be really tough! Trust is probably the first directive for this strategy. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day.. Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well.. You've trusted? (special thanks to Silver here ...)
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 11, 2013 16:03:55 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day.. Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well.. You've trusted? (special thanks to Silver here ...) Yes.. i still do.. and, when attachments reveal themselves, i notice them.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Jun 11, 2013 16:18:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. You've trusted? (special thanks to Silver here ...) Yes.. i still do.. and, when attachments reveal themselves, i notice them.. Be well.. When offered the open and honest discussion that you requested all it took was the slightest of disagreement or the merest hint of a grin on the face of your correspondents for you to stamp your foot through the thin ice. In the six months that I've been reading your messages your reply to Andrew the other day seemed to me quite singular, and that in the context of a mult-year conversation with him spanning at least two forums and a definite tinge of "enemy of my enemy" (not that Andy necessarily sees an "enemy", so to speak). Singular in that it betrayed no underlying attachment to being right and actually overtly disclaimed one. The best I can do with this contrarian view is to give it the benefit of the comedic doubt. That's cool in my book anyway ... but do expect fits of temper to be used as fuel for the fire of amusement!
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 11, 2013 18:02:53 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Yes.. i still do.. and, when attachments reveal themselves, i notice them.. Be well.. When offered the open and honest discussion that you requested all it took was the slightest of disagreement or the merest hint of a grin on the face of your correspondents for you to stamp your foot through the thin ice.In the six months that I've been reading your messages your reply to Andrew the other day seemed to me quite singular, and that in the context of a mult-year conversation with him spanning at least two forums and a definite tinge of "enemy of my enemy" (not that Andy necessarily sees an "enemy", so to speak). Singular in that it betrayed no underlying attachment to being right and actually overtly disclaimed one. The best I can do with this contrarian view is to give it the benefit of the comedic doubt. That's cool in my book anyway ... but do expect fits of temper to be used as fuel for the fire of amusement! Perception's a b!tch.. you see "the slightest of disagreement", i see retreat from honesty and openness through statements of absolute certainty.. you see the "merest hint of a grin:, and i see mockery and ridicule disguised as humor.. all i ask for is open and honest discussions, preferably one-on-one, but.. that's not the way, here, several aligned members move in from different angles,and.. honestly, i can't keep-up, and i'm not interested in that sort of 'spiritual gang violence', so.. step away from the campfire, here's plenty of what you perceive as fuel, and what i perceive as open honesty.. Be well..
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 11, 2013 18:04:32 GMT -5
Greetings.. I pay attention.. i've trusted, and when the discussion reveals actualities that the agenda messengers refuse to deal with, they resort to mockery, ridicule, provocation, and other such tactics as they hope will 'break' the clarity of those that see through their intended result, assimilation.. the evidence is in the insistence that a 'belief' is truth, that an opinion is true.. all i've ever suggested is that it is preferable to see clearly, than to see what someone tells you to see.. and, when someone tells you that you 'should see' what they see, their clarity is seriously questionable.. Tell a person what to see, and you fool him for a day..Teach a person to see clearly, and they are liberated.. Telling people 'what to see', is a full-time maintenance of illusions.. helping them to see clearly, liberates both them and you.. Be well.. You've told us to see a Borg. No, i haven't told you to "see a Borg".. Be well..
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