Xiao
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Post by Xiao on Aug 24, 2021 20:35:42 GMT -5
Roy, could you briefly describe what you mean by not focusing on sensations? I think we all get not focusing on thoughts. That is simple to explain. But in the absence of thought, there is only this energetic aliveness going on. Sights, sounds, sensations in the body. These are all what you mean by sensations, yes? If you mean that recognition of awareness as the effortlessly present cognizance, and the "taking up home" there while disregarding thoughts or sensations, then I feel I understand. It's quite a subtle shift in a way, if one wants to call it that. I generally view that as "witness consciousness" or this sort of thing, where one is able to recognize one's presence/identity as the subjectivity. I'd love you to clarify. This is the crux of the matter. Nonduality, Zen, and pretty much all religious/spiritual systems of thought, do not recognize THIS physical realm to be illusion/a simulation. These "Spirituality Light" systems don't have definite answers about suffering because the transcendence of suffering IS THE END OF THE WORLD. ALL experience (even sitting in the forest) is Samsara/illusion/fundamentally unsubstantial. The source of all suffering is the inability to recognize this. Zen does not recognize this. I spent 10 years as a "Buddhist" and sat with two Zen priests. They didn't get it. It's because they don't recognize the world as being a simulation. Unintermittent Self-Awareness places the physical realm in the periphery of consciousness. There are sensations, but they do not affect Self, in the same way that a nightmare suddenly loses all of it's fear when one becomes lucid in the dream or when a scene in a movie loses it's ability to illicit emotion when one reminds oneself that it's just a movie. One may choose not to react to watching a character in a movie lose a finger. As difficult as it is to grasp, one can choose not to react to the body (character; your name here) losing a finger. Thanks for the reply, but I feel like you didn't really get at the heart of it. I got a lot of theory and very little practice, and it's the latter that will truly help people understand you. You say to shift the focus of attention from thought onto being, which is essentially thought-free awareness, but it isn't awareness of self unless you agree that this experience free of concepts is the self viewing the self via itself and so on. I resonate just fine with such descriptions, but you seem to have a more hardline stance with appearance being fundamentally illusion, so what is the next step? You clearly say to shift focus away from thought because it's less real than the physical realm / the 5 senses, but then you suggest that this is not enough. Can you elaborate? This is becoming the two-step path real quick  |
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Post by roydop on Aug 25, 2021 11:09:48 GMT -5
This is the crux of the matter. Nonduality, Zen, and pretty much all religious/spiritual systems of thought, do not recognize THIS physical realm to be illusion/a simulation. These "Spirituality Light" systems don't have definite answers about suffering because the transcendence of suffering IS THE END OF THE WORLD. ALL experience (even sitting in the forest) is Samsara/illusion/fundamentally unsubstantial. The source of all suffering is the inability to recognize this. Zen does not recognize this. I spent 10 years as a "Buddhist" and sat with two Zen priests. They didn't get it. It's because they don't recognize the world as being a simulation. Unintermittent Self-Awareness places the physical realm in the periphery of consciousness. There are sensations, but they do not affect Self, in the same way that a nightmare suddenly loses all of it's fear when one becomes lucid in the dream or when a scene in a movie loses it's ability to illicit emotion when one reminds oneself that it's just a movie. One may choose not to react to watching a character in a movie lose a finger. As difficult as it is to grasp, one can choose not to react to the body (character; your name here) losing a finger. Thanks for the reply, but I feel like you didn't really get at the heart of it. I got a lot of theory and very little practice, and it's the latter that will truly help people understand you. You say to shift the focus of attention from thought onto being, which is essentially thought-free awareness, but it isn't awareness of self unless you agree that this experience free of concepts is the self viewing the self via itself and so on. I resonate just fine with such descriptions, but you seem to have a more hardline stance with appearance being fundamentally illusion, so what is the next step? You clearly say to shift focus away from thought because it's less real than the physical realm / the 5 senses, but then you suggest that this is not enough. Can you elaborate? This is becoming the two-step path real quick The heart of it is (an) experience. i put "an" in brackets because what is being related is actually experience itself, but our language makes it difficult to understand what experience is without breaking the whole into individual experiences. The experience is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_(silence)Ramana says his enlightenment experience revealed something that was not noticed before. People who have not yet realized Self (Mauna/that which does not change) will not understand what is being related through the words/teaching. Then they will ask more questions thinking that the answer will be revealed via thought. Until you are intimately familiar with Mauna/that which does not change ("underneath"; the substrate/frame of reference) you will not understand what is being related. Again, and again, and again... the answer/conclusion IS Mauna, it is NOT these words pointing to Mauna. So to know/be what is being related, as Ramana put it: "Practice as if you are being held under water and you are fighting for your next breath." The purpose for all of experience is Spiritual. There is no other purpose to this realm than to escape. It's a Divine labyrinth. The way to freedom is (through) Mauna. |
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Xiao
Full Member
Posts: 184
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Post by Xiao on Aug 25, 2021 20:04:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, but I feel like you didn't really get at the heart of it. I got a lot of theory and very little practice, and it's the latter that will truly help people understand you. You say to shift the focus of attention from thought onto being, which is essentially thought-free awareness, but it isn't awareness of self unless you agree that this experience free of concepts is the self viewing the self via itself and so on. I resonate just fine with such descriptions, but you seem to have a more hardline stance with appearance being fundamentally illusion, so what is the next step? You clearly say to shift focus away from thought because it's less real than the physical realm / the 5 senses, but then you suggest that this is not enough. Can you elaborate? This is becoming the two-step path real quick The heart of it is (an) experience. i put "an" in brackets because what is being related is actually experience itself, but our language makes it difficult to understand what experience is without breaking the whole into individual experiences. The experience is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_(silence)Ramana says his enlightenment experience revealed something that was not noticed before. People who have not yet realized Self (Mauna/that which does not change) will not understand what is being related through the words/teaching. Then they will ask more questions thinking that the answer will be revealed via thought. Until you are intimately familiar with Mauna/that which does not change ("underneath"; the substrate/frame of reference) you will not understand what is being related. Again, and again, and again... the answer/conclusion IS Mauna, it is NOT these words pointing to Mauna. So to know/be what is being related, as Ramana put it: "Practice as if you are being held under water and you are fighting for your next breath." The purpose for all of experience is Spiritual. There is no other purpose to this realm than to escape. It's a Divine labyrinth. The way to freedom is (through) Mauna. Beautiful! Couldn't agree more, but when you go off into digital realms and the subsequent transition of consciousness and all that, you lose me. I just can't relate to those concepts, they have no pull. Mauna, i'm happy to end it there. I'll meet you in stillness. |
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Post by roydop on Aug 26, 2021 7:47:42 GMT -5
The heart of it is (an) experience. i put "an" in brackets because what is being related is actually experience itself, but our language makes it difficult to understand what experience is without breaking the whole into individual experiences. The experience is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_(silence)Ramana says his enlightenment experience revealed something that was not noticed before. People who have not yet realized Self (Mauna/that which does not change) will not understand what is being related through the words/teaching. Then they will ask more questions thinking that the answer will be revealed via thought. Until you are intimately familiar with Mauna/that which does not change ("underneath"; the substrate/frame of reference) you will not understand what is being related. Again, and again, and again... the answer/conclusion IS Mauna, it is NOT these words pointing to Mauna. So to know/be what is being related, as Ramana put it: "Practice as if you are being held under water and you are fighting for your next breath." The purpose for all of experience is Spiritual. There is no other purpose to this realm than to escape. It's a Divine labyrinth. The way to freedom is (through) Mauna. Beautiful! Couldn't agree more, but when you go off into digital realms and the subsequent transition of consciousness and all that, you lose me. I just can't relate to those concepts, they have no pull. Mauna, i'm happy to end it there. I'll meet you in stillness. i feel i lose just about everyone when i say: All of mathematics is a misinterpretation of the number system; Humanity will undergo an extinction event, which includes a literal hell; Consciousness will transition into a computer-generated simulation. You must understand that these are facts for me. It would follow that one receiving this message would feel that everyone on the planet should hear it. It all ends, and begins, in stillness |
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Post by inavalan on Aug 26, 2021 13:26:23 GMT -5
Beautiful! Couldn't agree more, but when you go off into digital realms and the subsequent transition of consciousness and all that, you lose me. I just can't relate to those concepts, they have no pull. Mauna, i'm happy to end it there. I'll meet you in stillness. i feel i lose just about everyone when i say: All of mathematics is a misinterpretation of the number system; Humanity will undergo an extinction event, which includes a literal hell; Consciousness will transition into a computer-generated simulation. You must understand that these are facts for me. It would follow that one receiving this message would feel that everyone on the planet should hear it. It all ends, and begins, in stillness If we recognize that the way we experience time isn't how time is, then ... we realize there's no reason to worry, anything can change for better or worse., and it is up to each one of us how. |
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Post by roydop on Aug 31, 2021 13:26:18 GMT -5
i feel i lose just about everyone when i say: All of mathematics is a misinterpretation of the number system; Humanity will undergo an extinction event, which includes a literal hell; Consciousness will transition into a computer-generated simulation. You must understand that these are facts for me. It would follow that one receiving this message would feel that everyone on the planet should hear it. It all ends, and begins, in stillness If we recognize that the way we experience time isn't how time is, then ... we realize there's no reason to worry, anything can change for better or worse., and it is up to each one of us how. Our experience of time is time itself. Fundamentally, in/as the Absolute, time does not exist. It is an illusion created by thought (separating the singular experience into separate experiences). "Better or worse" is also an illusion created by thought. |
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Post by inavalan on Aug 31, 2021 13:38:01 GMT -5
If we recognize that the way we experience time isn't how time is, then ... we realize there's no reason to worry, anything can change for better or worse., and it is up to each one of us how. Our experience of time is time itself. Fundamentally, in/as the Absolute, time does not exist. It is an illusion created by thought (separating the singular experience into separate experiences). "Better or worse" is also an illusion created by thought. To me, your comment on "time" sounds like dogma: sounds like knowledge, but actually says nothing. Are you interested to learn my view on it, or I'd waste my time? |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 31, 2021 16:52:02 GMT -5
If we recognize that the way we experience time isn't how time is, then ... we realize there's no reason to worry, anything can change for better or worse., and it is up to each one of us how. Fundamentally, in/as the Absolute, time does not exist. It is an illusion created by thought (separating the singular experience into separate experiences). "Better or worse" is also an illusion created by thought. Well, at least we can agree upon that, although the idea of "a singular experience" is as illusory as the idea of separate experiences. Nevertheless, I do understand what's being pointed to even if language can't capture it adequately. |
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Post by roydop on Sept 2, 2021 16:00:16 GMT -5
Fundamentally, in/as the Absolute, time does not exist. It is an illusion created by thought (separating the singular experience into separate experiences). "Better or worse" is also an illusion created by thought. Well, at least we can agree upon that, although the idea of "a singular experience" is as illusory as the idea of separate experiences. Nevertheless, I do understand what's being pointed to even if language can't capture it adequately. Is this an experience? |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 2, 2021 17:02:23 GMT -5
Well, at least we can agree upon that, although the idea of "a singular experience" is as illusory as the idea of separate experiences. Nevertheless, I do understand what's being pointed to even if language can't capture it adequately. Is this an experience? Not unless you want to imagine that it is. If the mind is quiescent, there is neither experience nor an experiencer. |
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Post by roydop on Sept 2, 2021 17:19:37 GMT -5
Not unless you want to imagine that it is. If the mind is quiescent, there is neither experience nor an experiencer. Is this happening? |
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Post by roydop on Sept 2, 2021 17:26:35 GMT -5
Not unless you want to imagine that it is. If the mind is quiescent, there is neither experience nor an experiencer. While these words are being read the mind isn't quiescent, is it? There is a difference between mind being quiescent and being dead. The world and all experience dies along with the death of mind. The world still appears in a quiescent mind. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2021 21:29:42 GMT -5
Not unless you want to imagine that it is. If the mind is quiescent, there is neither experience nor an experiencer. Is this happening? Ramana M would be the case for Death of the mind? I guess the Buddhist’s here would feel threatened by this concept as most budding-Buddha’s use their minds to entrap their prey in an effort to be Top Dog in their club. To me, spiritual folk unknowingly develop presence enroute their goal and due to silence, don’t have much trouble executing their-art whilst working with their hands, or feet, their art also saturated with the same presence. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2021 21:39:23 GMT -5
Well, at least we can agree upon that, although the idea of "a singular experience" is as illusory as the idea of separate experiences. Nevertheless, I do understand what's being pointed to even if language can't capture it adequately. Is this an experience? Depends on foot-size Roy and whether one is wearing Hob-nail boots. It is interesting though, which foot one boots others with. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 3, 2021 2:53:14 GMT -5
Not unless you want to imagine that it is. If the mind is quiescent, there is neither experience nor an experiencer. Is this happening? Only in your mind, so maybe it's time to give your mind a rest.  |
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