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Post by hawaado on Apr 23, 2013 21:04:12 GMT -5
Okay so here it goes. I love listening to Alan Watts, even though admittedly I don't fully understand everything he says as I'm pretty new to this whole spirituality spectrum ^_^ Basically I was listening to a video of his and a certain sentence he said just made me freeze up and to be honest, it struck fear in me. This is what he said, I'll make the sentence bold. "So after you're dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they're all you, only you can only
experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you're you, and wheresoever all being exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn't make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that's you coming into being." So that line just freaked the hell out of me. What I understood that to mean was that I have lived and will live every life that has ever occurred or will occur. When you look around at some of the truly horrendous lives some people have due to extremely unfortunate circumstances, well it does frighten me a lot and I'm having a hard time shaking off if that truly is the message. I don't want to life every life ever in the universe. Could someone please ease my mind, I'm hoping that I've misunderstood him and would really like to be corrected. If however that's what he truly meant, then I have no idea what I'm going to do to get it out of my head, it's scary as hell. Thanks in advance guys  |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 23, 2013 21:59:53 GMT -5
Hi Hawaado The core concept behind pretty much everything Alan Watts ever talked about was basically (put in my own words) this; Existence itself has no actual opposite. It's 'apparent' opposite; 'Non-Existence', is forever in violation of it's own definition, as such rendering itself fundamentally redundant, thus remaining eternally 'self-cancelled'. Non-Existence does not exist, anywhere, ever. Therefore, Existence itself is ultimately causeless and edgeless, and so is not 'something'. This infinite, eternal 'nothingness' is what ACTUALLY is, without another, forever and ever. It is this causelessness itself that is fundamentally aware. Having no 'other' than itself, it is forever inescapably aware of the boundless nothingness that it is. From this eternal reality of pure awareness ceaselessly emanates the illusory duality of it's singular experiencial expression. This apparent duality is ultimately that of 'the observer' (stillness, changelessness, silence, emptiness) and 'the observed' (movement, change, sound, form). It is only between this illusory pair of inseparable dualistic opposites that 'experiencing' can take place. EVERYTHING that happens is ultimately an apparent part of the forever effortless unfolding of the experiencial expression of the pure awareness that is the infinite eternal nothingness of Existence itself. There is ONLY that. So he's saying that actually, you ARE infinite, eternal Existence itself, which ultimately isn't a thing at all. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 23, 2013 23:28:19 GMT -5
Okay so here it goes. I love listening to Alan Watts, even though admittedly I don't fully understand everything he says as I'm pretty new to this whole spirituality spectrum ^_^ Basically I was listening to a video of his and a certain sentence he said just made me freeze up and to be honest, it struck fear in me. This is what he said, I'll make the sentence bold. "So after you're dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they're all you, only you can only
experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you're you, and wheresoever all being exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn't make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that's you coming into being." So that line just freaked the hell out of me. What I understood that to mean was that I have lived and will live every life that has ever occurred or will occur. When you look around at some of the truly horrendous lives some people have due to extremely unfortunate circumstances, well it does frighten me a lot and I'm having a hard time shaking off if that truly is the message. I don't want to life every life ever in the universe. Could someone please ease my mind, I'm hoping that I've misunderstood him and would really like to be corrected. If however that's what he truly meant, then I have no idea what I'm going to do to get it out of my head, it's scary as hell. Thanks in advance guys Ditto what stillness said. Watts doesn't mean that you as identity experiences every other life as identity. Consider this, where does the energy of the cheeseburger you ate for lunch come from? It came from the cow who ate grain and grass. Where did the energy of the grass come from? It came from the Sun through photons which the grass changed into chemical energy through photosynthesis. So when you ate that cheeseburger you were eating solar energy. And all the very elements of your body were created either in stars or through stars exploding, supernovas, you are stardust. Everything comes from every other thing in some way, shape or form and without everything there would be no thing. ............ All of the past exists right now, in you. All of your own future exists in you, sadly, unless you break out and free yourself from your past. It can be done.... sdp |
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Post by hawaado on Apr 25, 2013 17:27:30 GMT -5
Thank you very much for both of your wonderful replies. I'm new to all this so may not grasp some concepts as well as you guys. So to just ease my mind, when I die I wont be reincarnated into you guys for example, and have to live your lives out? (not that I don't want to be you guys, I'm sure you're just wonderful)
^_^
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Post by zendancer on Apr 25, 2013 19:03:52 GMT -5
Thank you very much for both of your wonderful replies. I'm new to all this so may not grasp some concepts as well as you guys. So to just ease my mind, when I die I wont be reincarnated into you guys for example, and have to live your lives out? (not that I don't want to be you guys, I'm sure you're just wonderful) ^_^ Stillness did a good job of explaining what's going on, and Watts did too. Who/what you are is what looks out of every set of eyes. There is only one here, and that one is what sees everything. Who you think you are is a figment of imagination. The real you is unbounded but centered everywhere at once. Each moment who you are is both appearing and disappearing in trillions of life forms. When you look at an ant, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a tree, you are looking at yourself; when you look at another human being, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a star, you are looking at yourself. It sounds incredible, but you're bigger than you can imagine! As Walt Whitman wrote, "I am vast; I contain multitudes." |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 22:01:45 GMT -5
Think in terms of your primary sense of being a subject, an I living in the world. Now, when you die there will most likley at that moment be born a new human into the world with the same fundemental sense of I. In this sense, the primary I is perpetualy being reincarnated. In terms of the fear of sharing this unity of conciousness with others who may not be such great actors, remember that the outward person is not the inner awareness. As Richard Rose said, the viewer is not the view. Alan Watts also mentioned being able to sense this primary awareness with people you dislike. This I think also is the basis of loving ones enemies, but that is only possible when you become aware of this common mind amongst all. Peace |
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Post by runstill on Apr 26, 2013 2:48:56 GMT -5
Thank you very much for both of your wonderful replies. I'm new to all this so may not grasp some concepts as well as you guys. So to just ease my mind, when I die I wont be reincarnated into you guys for example, and have to live your lives out? (not that I don't want to be you guys, I'm sure you're just wonderful) ^_^ Stillness did a good job of explaining what's going on, and Watts did too. Who/what you are is what looks out of every set of eyes. There is only one here, and that one is what sees everything. Who you think you are is a figment of imagination. The real you is unbounded but centered everywhere at once. Each moment who you are is both appearing and disappearing in trillions of life forms. When you look at an ant, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a tree, you are looking at yourself; when you look at another human being, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a star, you are looking at yourself. It sounds incredible, but you're bigger than you can imagine! As Walt Whitman wrote, "I am vast; I contain multitudes." the way zendancer writes about this may seem inconceivable and it is to the thinking mind but mind and thoughts are not what you are, this Gnosis can be directly seen when the little habit of thought and memory that seems like a 'you' ceases to exist for a moment in time..... |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 26, 2013 3:28:19 GMT -5
Stillness did a good job of explaining what's going on, and Watts did too. Who/what you are is what looks out of every set of eyes. There is only one here, and that one is what sees everything. Who you think you are is a figment of imagination. The real you is unbounded but centered everywhere at once. Each moment who you are is both appearing and disappearing in trillions of life forms. When you look at an ant, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a tree, you are looking at yourself; when you look at another human being, you are looking at yourself; when you look at a star, you are looking at yourself. It sounds incredible, but you're bigger than you can imagine! As Walt Whitman wrote, "I am vast; I contain multitudes." the way zendancer writes about this may seem inconceivable and it is to the thinking mind but mind and thoughts are not what you are, this Gnosis can be directly seen when the little habit of thought and memory that seems like a 'you' ceases to exist for a moment in time..... Yep. The question is, what remains? Can it really be known?  |
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Post by hawaado on Apr 26, 2013 14:11:24 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm still new to this and don't understand much, so sorry for being such a newbie!  I came across this story which outlines a similar thing. The end was like this: “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” That's what I'm trying to get at. When Watts talks about only experiencing life one at a time, it's the same concept in this story. I'm really trying for a simple straight forward answer here, but realize I probably wont get one haha. Basically I don't want to live every single human life through out time. I have no problem with reincarnation as such, just the thought of having to live EVERY single life that has ever existed. Like when you see some truly horrific lifes, I think...oh great. It makes me anxious to be honest. Sorry for these questions. I just really need to ease my mind on this. I love Alan Watts, but just can't shake this one off! |
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Post by topology on Apr 26, 2013 16:14:42 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm still new to this and don't understand much, so sorry for being such a newbie! I came across this story which outlines a similar thing. The end was like this: “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” That's what I'm trying to get at. When Watts talks about only experiencing life one at a time, it's the same concept in this story. I'm really trying for a simple straight forward answer here, but realize I probably wont get one haha. Basically I don't want to live every single human life through out time. I have no problem with reincarnation as such, just the thought of having to live EVERY single life that has ever existed. Like when you see some truly horrific lifes, I think...oh great. It makes me anxious to be honest. Sorry for these questions. I just really need to ease my mind on this. I love Alan Watts, but just can't shake this one off! If you switch the interpretation from literal to figurative, then I think you'll find it makes much more sense. It's not that you have to live every life, but that you carry the wisdom and perspective of being as if you had lived every human life. The Wisdom and Perspective of the Universe is available to you, if you can tune into it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 17:55:04 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm still new to this and don't understand much, so sorry for being such a newbie! I came across this story which outlines a similar thing. The end was like this: “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” That's what I'm trying to get at. When Watts talks about only experiencing life one at a time, it's the same concept in this story. I'm really trying for a simple straight forward answer here, but realize I probably wont get one haha. Basically I don't want to live every single human life through out time. I have no problem with reincarnation as such, just the thought of having to live EVERY single life that has ever existed. Like when you see some truly horrific lifes, I think...oh great. It makes me anxious to be honest. Sorry for these questions. I just really need to ease my mind on this. I love Alan Watts, but just can't shake this one off! There is a common experience among those contemplating transmigration/reincarnation which is a sort of angst. The prospect of being born again for infinity and the pressure it brings causes an existential dilemma, even if that existential dilemma is spreadout throughout a multitude of lives for the imagined future. The Good News of Buddha was that rebirth wasn't necessary. Liberation is possible now. No need to worry about lives and lives trying to work on merit and such. Just focus like a laser beam on freedom now. I'm not selling buddhism, BTW. I wouldn't worry about having to live every life. Focus on this one. I like Top's metaphorical interpretation too. |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 26, 2013 18:01:15 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm still new to this and don't understand much, so sorry for being such a newbie! I came across this story which outlines a similar thing. The end was like this: “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” That's what I'm trying to get at. When Watts talks about only experiencing life one at a time, it's the same concept in this story. I'm really trying for a simple straight forward answer here, but realize I probably wont get one haha. Basically I don't want to live every single human life through out time. I have no problem with reincarnation as such, just the thought of having to live EVERY single life that has ever existed. Like when you see some truly horrific lifes, I think...oh great. It makes me anxious to be honest. Sorry for these questions. I just really need to ease my mind on this. I love Alan Watts, but just can't shake this one off! You don't have to worry about living through every human life that ever was or will be in some kind of end to end sequence. That would simply be an incoherent state of affairs, and so just isn't how it works. Watts certainly didn't mean for it to be taken that way. What he's really trying to say is that what EVERYONE and EVERYTHING actually is RIGHT NOW is without another, forever and ever. The infinite, eternal ISness of THIS. That's all. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 18:17:58 GMT -5
Perspective.  |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 26, 2013 19:25:27 GMT -5
Perspective. Dear Dude/Dudette, Speculation. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 2:46:05 GMT -5
Perspective. ["http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Time_Clock-625x592.gif" ] Dear Dude/Dudette, Speculation. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize  |
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