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Post by zendancer on Apr 27, 2013 15:36:32 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm still new to this and don't understand much, so sorry for being such a newbie!  I came across this story which outlines a similar thing. The end was like this: “You mean I’m a god?” “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.” That's what I'm trying to get at. When Watts talks about only experiencing life one at a time, it's the same concept in this story. I'm really trying for a simple straight forward answer here, but realize I probably wont get one haha. Basically I don't want to live every single human life through out time. I have no problem with reincarnation as such, just the thought of having to live EVERY single life that has ever existed. Like when you see some truly horrific lifes, I think...oh great. It makes me anxious to be honest. Sorry for these questions. I just really need to ease my mind on this. I love Alan Watts, but just can't shake this one off! You don't have to worry about living through every human life that ever was or will be in some kind of end to end sequence. That would simply be an incoherent state of affairs, and so just isn't how it works. Watts certainly didn't mean for it to be taken that way. What he's really trying to say is that what EVERYONE and EVERYTHING actually is RIGHT NOW is without another, forever and ever. The infinite, eternal ISness of THIS. That's all.  Correct. Who we ARE is every creature that is currently alive and every creature that has ever lived anywhere in this or any other universe. We are every gnat, worm, midgen, mole, mammoth, fish, dinosaur, or human being that has ever lived or will ever live, but we are even more than that. We are every tree, star, comet, galaxy, drop or water, or puff of wind that had ever existed or will ever exist. Why think small about this matter? Ha ha. |
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Post by hawaado on Apr 28, 2013 10:48:10 GMT -5
You don't have to worry about living through every human life that ever was or will be in some kind of end to end sequence. That would simply be an incoherent state of affairs, and so just isn't how it works. Watts certainly didn't mean for it to be taken that way. What he's really trying to say is that what EVERYONE and EVERYTHING actually is RIGHT NOW is without another, forever and ever. The infinite, eternal ISness of THIS. That's all. Correct. Who we ARE is every creature that is currently alive and every creature that has ever lived anywhere in this or any other universe. We are every gnat, worm, midgen, mole, mammoth, fish, dinosaur, or human being that has ever lived or will ever live, but we are even more than that. We are every tree, star, comet, galaxy, drop or water, or puff of wind that had ever existed or will ever exist. Why think small about this matter? Ha ha. Thank you very much, this has somewhat eased my over-active mind a bit ^_^ I'm still exploring all of this so I'm sure it will take a lot of time, I am however prepared to put the effort in to understand all these things. Am I right in saying that although the universe, everything, the eternal and such do experience every life, since everything is everything else, but we don't like some torturous cage? Its hard to convey what I'm trying to say. How does this fit in with rebirth & reincarnation & death too. Would this mean that after death it would be nothing, I understand that nothing is not an experience. Or are we reincarnated with a soul, or do we not have a soul but we will just simply live again one day and experience life again. But yes, my mind has been eased, although I'm sure it'll bug me again of the concept of having to experience every life, hopefully I'll be more equipped to deal with it then  |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 28, 2013 16:37:50 GMT -5
Correct. Who we ARE is every creature that is currently alive and every creature that has ever lived anywhere in this or any other universe. We are every gnat, worm, midgen, mole, mammoth, fish, dinosaur, or human being that has ever lived or will ever live, but we are even more than that. We are every tree, star, comet, galaxy, drop or water, or puff of wind that had ever existed or will ever exist. Why think small about this matter? Ha ha. Thank you very much, this has somewhat eased my over-active mind a bit ^_^ I'm still exploring all of this so I'm sure it will take a lot of time, I am however prepared to put the effort in to understand all these things. Am I right in saying that although the universe, everything, the eternal and such do experience every life, since everything is everything else, but we don't like some torturous cage? Its hard to convey what I'm trying to say. How does this fit in with rebirth & reincarnation & death too. Would this mean that after death it would be nothing, I understand that nothing is not an experience. Or are we reincarnated with a soul, or do we not have a soul but we will just simply live again one day and experience life again. But yes, my mind has been eased, although I'm sure it'll bug me again of the concept of having to experience every life, hopefully I'll be more equipped to deal with it then Remember, the REAL YOU is not actually 'personal'. As long as an attempt is being made to think about this stuff as it would relate to a real 'personal you', it will not be truely realized. The REAL YOU is just as much everything that is experienced to be 'not you' as that which is experienced to be 'you'. In fact, even this very distinction is itself an illusion, so really there is neither a 'you' nor a 'not you'. There is only what both of them ACTUALLY are; THIS |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 3:49:41 GMT -5
Okay so here it goes. I love listening to Alan Watts, even though admittedly I don't fully understand everything he says as I'm pretty new to this whole spirituality spectrum ^_^ Basically I was listening to a video of his and a certain sentence he said just made me freeze up and to be honest, it struck fear in me. This is what he said, I'll make the sentence bold. "So after you're dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they're all you, only you can only
experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you're you, and wheresoever all being exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn't make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that's you coming into being." So that line just freaked the hell out of me. What I understood that to mean was that I have lived and will live every life that has ever occurred or will occur. When you look around at some of the truly horrendous lives some people have due to extremely unfortunate circumstances, well it does frighten me a lot and I'm having a hard time shaking off if that truly is the message. I don't want to life every life ever in the universe. Could someone please ease my mind, I'm hoping that I've misunderstood him and would really like to be corrected. If however that's what he truly meant, then I have no idea what I'm going to do to get it out of my head, it's scary as hell. Thanks in advance guys I hear ya on that one. The idea needs to be taken very figuratively, though. Or just dismiss it entirely. No sin in not buying it. To quote Spinal Tap: When we die, do we haunt the sky or lurk in the murk of the seas?/What then? Are we born again just to sit asking questions like these? |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 29, 2013 10:36:24 GMT -5
It helps to realize that the universe is unimaginably intelligent and has its own ineffable plan of action. If this is seen, then one can relax and simply BE in the secure knowledge that everything is taken care of. Humans are apparently the only creatures on earth who imagine that they are separate entities who have control over what happens. This illusion creates all kinds of unnecessary psychological worries.
Melville, in his novel "Moby D*ick," presented a great koan when he had Captain Ahab raise his arm and ask, "Is it I or God who lifts this hand?" Seeing the answer to this question helps put the mind at rest. (hint: it isn't "I" and it isn't "God.")
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Post by silence on Apr 30, 2013 1:27:41 GMT -5
Correct. Who we ARE is every creature that is currently alive and every creature that has ever lived anywhere in this or any other universe. We are every gnat, worm, midgen, mole, mammoth, fish, dinosaur, or human being that has ever lived or will ever live, but we are even more than that. We are every tree, star, comet, galaxy, drop or water, or puff of wind that had ever existed or will ever exist. Why think small about this matter? Ha ha. Thank you very much, this has somewhat eased my over-active mind a bit ^_^ I'm still exploring all of this so I'm sure it will take a lot of time, I am however prepared to put the effort in to understand all these things. Am I right in saying that although the universe, everything, the eternal and such do experience every life, since everything is everything else, but we don't like some torturous cage? Its hard to convey what I'm trying to say. How does this fit in with rebirth & reincarnation & death too. Would this mean that after death it would be nothing, I understand that nothing is not an experience. Or are we reincarnated with a soul, or do we not have a soul but we will just simply live again one day and experience life again. But yes, my mind has been eased, although I'm sure it'll bug me again of the concept of having to experience every life, hopefully I'll be more equipped to deal with it then Reincarnation is just a response to feeling superior. Nobody stops for a moment to wonder where the soul of the mosquito they just swatted ascended off to. Or whether the blade of grass just entered heaven. You can trace just about all of spirituality back to this sense of superiority that can't reconcile the totally ordinary and unimportant existence presented before you. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 30, 2013 1:32:50 GMT -5
Thank you very much, this has somewhat eased my over-active mind a bit ^_^ I'm still exploring all of this so I'm sure it will take a lot of time, I am however prepared to put the effort in to understand all these things. Am I right in saying that although the universe, everything, the eternal and such do experience every life, since everything is everything else, but we don't like some torturous cage? Its hard to convey what I'm trying to say. How does this fit in with rebirth & reincarnation & death too. Would this mean that after death it would be nothing, I understand that nothing is not an experience. Or are we reincarnated with a soul, or do we not have a soul but we will just simply live again one day and experience life again. But yes, my mind has been eased, although I'm sure it'll bug me again of the concept of having to experience every life, hopefully I'll be more equipped to deal with it then Reincarnation is just a response to feeling superior. Nobody stops for a moment to wonder where the soul of the mosquito they just swatted ascended off to. Or whether the blade of grass just entered heaven. You can trace just about all of spirituality back to this sense of superiority that can't reconcile the totally ordinary and unimportant existence presented before you. Dear Dude/Dudette, The mosquito and the blade of grass are obviously baby souls. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 30, 2013 5:49:10 GMT -5
Thank you very much, this has somewhat eased my over-active mind a bit ^_^ I'm still exploring all of this so I'm sure it will take a lot of time, I am however prepared to put the effort in to understand all these things. Am I right in saying that although the universe, everything, the eternal and such do experience every life, since everything is everything else, but we don't like some torturous cage? Its hard to convey what I'm trying to say. How does this fit in with rebirth & reincarnation & death too. Would this mean that after death it would be nothing, I understand that nothing is not an experience. Or are we reincarnated with a soul, or do we not have a soul but we will just simply live again one day and experience life again. But yes, my mind has been eased, although I'm sure it'll bug me again of the concept of having to experience every life, hopefully I'll be more equipped to deal with it then Reincarnation is just a response to feeling superior. Nobody stops for a moment to wonder where the soul of the mosquito they just swatted ascended off to. Or whether the blade of grass just entered heaven. You can trace just about all of spirituality back to this sense of superiority that can't reconcile the totally ordinary and unimportant existence presented before you. What about the (albeit misconceived) desire to find out "why is there something instead of nothing?", or "why is there THIS something instead of some other something?". I think the big existential questions like these are the main spark of pretty much all spirituality. I mean, what is "totally ordinary" about the fact that we apparently live on a ball of rock and water that is hurtling through space at a speed of roughly sixty seven thousand mph or fourty two thousand kmph around a massive, five billion year old nuclear reaction that is one of approximately four hundred billion that comprise a one hundred thousand light year wide galaxy that is one of countless trillions of galaxies in the universe? What is "totally ordinary" about that? I agree with what you said about reincarnation though. |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 30, 2013 8:10:12 GMT -5
Yes, it always struck me as funny that people never worry about where they came from; they only worry about where they're going. Becoming psychologically comfortable with here and now sort of kills two birds with one stone. ha ha.
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Post by relinquish on Apr 30, 2013 12:26:23 GMT -5
Yes, it always struck me as funny that people never worry about where they came from; they only worry about where they're going. Becoming psychologically comfortable with here and now sort of kills two birds with one stone. ha ha. Funnily enough, I started out with all this being totally ok with the fact I had not a clue where I was going. This was way before I had ever heard of any of any of this "not knowing" business. At the same time though, I had NO desire at all to simply "not know" where I (and everthing else) came from. I HAD to know. I thought to myself, "Well, this is a very beautiful universe and all, but it will look SO MUCH more beautiful when I understand completely how it came to be the way it is and exactly what my place is in all this.". LOL!!! |
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Post by silence on Apr 30, 2013 13:47:28 GMT -5
Reincarnation is just a response to feeling superior. Nobody stops for a moment to wonder where the soul of the mosquito they just swatted ascended off to. Or whether the blade of grass just entered heaven. You can trace just about all of spirituality back to this sense of superiority that can't reconcile the totally ordinary and unimportant existence presented before you. What about the (albeit misconceived) desire to find out "why is there something instead of nothing?", or "why is there THIS something instead of some other something?". I think the big existential questions like these are the main spark of pretty much all spirituality. I mean, what is "totally ordinary" about the fact that we apparently live on a ball of rock and water that is hurtling through space at a speed of roughly sixty seven thousand mph or fourty two thousand kmph around a massive, five billion year old nuclear reaction that is one of approximately four hundred billion that comprise a one hundred thousand light year wide galaxy that is one of countless trillions of galaxies in the universe? What is "totally ordinary" about that? I agree with what you said about reincarnation though. Your experience has nothing to do with hurtling balls of rocks or nuclear reactions or hundred thousand light year wide galaxies. The ordinary part is what's going on outside of that fantasy world and you simply can't leave it be. |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 30, 2013 14:53:48 GMT -5
What about the (albeit misconceived) desire to find out "why is there something instead of nothing?", or "why is there THIS something instead of some other something?". I think the big existential questions like these are the main spark of pretty much all spirituality. I mean, what is "totally ordinary" about the fact that we apparently live on a ball of rock and water that is hurtling through space at a speed of roughly sixty seven thousand mph or fourty two thousand kmph around a massive, five billion year old nuclear reaction that is one of approximately four hundred billion that comprise a one hundred thousand light year wide galaxy that is one of countless trillions of galaxies in the universe? What is "totally ordinary" about that? I agree with what you said about reincarnation though. Your experience has nothing to do with hurtling balls of rocks or nuclear reactions or hundred thousand light year wide galaxies. The ordinary part is what's going on outside of that fantasy world and you simply can't leave it be. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy in life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato That 'bigger picture' I'm describing IS ALWAYS here for you Silence. It'll wait patiently for you until the day you're ready to embrace it. It won't even mind if you never do. Peace. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 16:28:35 GMT -5
Your experience has nothing to do with hurtling balls of rocks or nuclear reactions or hundred thousand light year wide galaxies. The ordinary part is what's going on outside of that fantasy world and you simply can't leave it be. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy in life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato That 'bigger picture' I'm describing IS ALWAYS here for you Silence. It'll wait patiently for you until the day you're ready to embrace it. It won't even mind if you never do. Peace.  |
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Post by silence on Apr 30, 2013 17:05:37 GMT -5
Your experience has nothing to do with hurtling balls of rocks or nuclear reactions or hundred thousand light year wide galaxies. The ordinary part is what's going on outside of that fantasy world and you simply can't leave it be. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy in life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato That 'bigger picture' I'm describing IS ALWAYS here for you Silence. It'll wait patiently for you until the day you're ready to embrace it. It won't even mind if you never do. Peace. That's not the big picture. That's something you read in a text book. |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 30, 2013 17:25:57 GMT -5
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy in life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato That 'bigger picture' I'm describing IS ALWAYS here for you Silence. It'll wait patiently for you until the day you're ready to embrace it. It won't even mind if you never do. Peace. That's not the big picture. That's something you read in a text book. The words I typed are, sure. But what those words refer to is the large scale structure of the universe, which is itself actually the experiential expression of the pure awareness that is the infinite eternal nothingness of Existence itself. What you call the "totally ordinary" reality is really exactly the same 'thing' simply on a much smaller scale, although it gets much MUCH smaller. I do think we are going to have to agree to disagree, my friend. |
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