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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 10:38:51 GMT -5
There's that refreshing clarity again. Hehe....and there's the reason why Quinn cannot see what others here are saying. It reminds me of someone who lives in a country where peace and prosperity reigns, chastizing those who live in a war torn, poor country for pointing out the problems......telling them to 'stop complaining.' Quinn has never been the brunt of E's mocking or dismissal and he's never argued his pov over hers. Nice.  There's a commonality that underscores it all and it's your attachment to your position. It manifests in all sorts of conversations about differing subject matter. It's not the divergence of opinion itself that creates the reactions you get, It's the fact that you dig in your heels and rarely budge...and that you hold yourself above reproach....as able to clearly see the delusions of others, while rarely being open to look at your own. While the precise content that folks argue with you about varies, it's the 'stuckness' that is consistently rubbing folks the wrong way. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 10:40:28 GMT -5
Hehe....and there's the reason why Quinn cannot see what others here are saying. It reminds me of someone who lives in a country where peace and prosperity reigns, chastizing those who live in a war torn, poor country for pointing out the problems......telling them to 'stop complaining.' Quinn has never been the brunt of E's mocking or dismissal and he's never argued his pov over hers. Nice. There's a commonality that underscores it all and it's your attachment to your position. It manifests in all sorts of conversations about differing subject matter. It's not the divergence of opinion itself that creates the reactions you get, It's the fact that you dig in your heels and rarely budge...and that you hold yourself above reproach....as able to clearly see the delusions of others, while rarely being open to look at your own. While the precise content that folks argue with you about varies, it's the 'stuckness' and how that manifests (mocking, dismissal, arrogance), that is consistently rubbing folks the wrong way. [/quote] |
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Post by enigma on Mar 18, 2013 10:41:55 GMT -5
"What he is doing" is exactly what you all are doing. Pointing out where you see delusion. You just want him to be mannerly while he's doing it. What belief are you all assuming he's blinded by? Or does each person have their own perception of where the blindness is? Let's see what I can come up with: Arisha: E doesn't believe that service to others is more important than self like I do M-G: E shouldn't use harsh words like "blackmail" and doesn't see self-love the same as I do Andrew: E appears to be excluding stuff and should include everything like I do Tzu: E needs to be still and look within like I do Focusing on E is a handy diversion from looking at the stories in our own heads. What I said there wasn't so much about manner or about the words he uses (though it is linked), its about the inability to see what others are pointing to. When people point stuff out to me consistently, I may deny it initially, but I often come back afterwards and can see at least a bit of truth in it. E's frame of reference is such that he cannot see any truth in what is being pointed out to him by people that are pretty intelligent and intuitive. People have different ways of expressing what they see as the problem, but it can be boiled down to the same thing.....attachment to a position. Personally, I don't consider 'focusing on stories in our own heads' as necessarily always the most intelligent action. Sometimes this idea can be used to perpetuate separate and contain spontaneity/responsivity. What position is that? |
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Post by quinn on Mar 18, 2013 10:51:32 GMT -5
Right. You and I are not seeing the same thing. Which one is right? (Be careful, it's a trick question) There is no right/wrong, just as there is no truth. These things, these situations are everchanging just like the ocean moves. You and Top seem to think I'm stuck on being 'mad at E' when it's something that couldn't be further from the truth. It's a jawdropping moment when Top says the kind of things he just said to me - like, non-duallies think it's wrong to express precisely how we feel when we feel it??? Like wow. Where did I say I think you're stuck on being mad at E? Right now you seem to be mad at me. |
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Post by topology on Mar 18, 2013 10:55:09 GMT -5
Be sure to get all the venom out in one go. You don't want to leave any of that poison inside to rot and fester over time. So I'm the snake now, huh? You're quite funny, Top. Is venom known to fester and rot in a real snake or spider or - frog? No. It's a natural defense/offense system that 'god' put there. And uh, thanks for the invitation. No, you are not the snake. I am saying you were bit by the snake and have a wound that is festering. I'm not saying Enigma is the snake either. |
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Post by quinn on Mar 18, 2013 11:04:46 GMT -5
There's that refreshing clarity again. Hehe....and there's the reason why Quinn cannot see what others here are saying. It reminds me of someone who lives in a country where peace and prosperity reigns, chastizing those who live in a war torn, poor country for pointing out the problems......telling them to 'stop complaining.' Quinn has never been the brunt of E's mocking or dismissal and he's never argued his pov over hers. You musta missed it. There have been a few times, but mostly he's only has to say it briefly. Either he's right or he's wrong. When he's right, I'm grateful. When he's wrong, I tell him. Briefly. So they're easy to miss - they don't go on for 50 pages. Your metaphor there is pretty funny. So in my little happy-place I can't see others in pain and anguish? Heehee. Where's the pain and anguish coming from? |
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Post by silver on Mar 18, 2013 11:07:42 GMT -5
There is no right/wrong, just as there is no truth. These things, these situations are everchanging just like the ocean moves. You and Top seem to think I'm stuck on being 'mad at E' when it's something that couldn't be further from the truth. It's a jawdropping moment when Top says the kind of things he just said to me - like, non-duallies think it's wrong to express precisely how we feel when we feel it??? Like wow. Where did I say I think you're stuck on being mad at E? Right now you seem to be mad at me. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that, as I'm not mad at you or anyone...it's more of a tap on the shoulder for you to look again. Something tells me we all need to remind ourselves that we need to re-examine some of our notions from time to time. This means Everybody...pirates, too!  |
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Post by silver on Mar 18, 2013 11:09:47 GMT -5
So I'm the snake now, huh? You're quite funny, Top. Is venom known to fester and rot in a real snake or spider or - frog? No. It's a natural defense/offense system that 'god' put there. And uh, thanks for the invitation. No, you are not the snake. I am saying you were bit by the snake and have a wound that is festering. I'm not saying Enigma is the snake either. Oh. I had taken it complete opposite from what you intended, huh? Then what's biting me?! |
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Post by enigma on Mar 18, 2013 11:10:48 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the image that's so funny, but of course it's your image. It kinda makes sense if you see Love as an 'addition' to the self rather than an absence of the self. I don't see love as an addition to the self, but I think its possible to experience more of what we are, and in doing so, we are likely to experience more love. No, I'm actually saying no 'me' acted. |
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Post by quinn on Mar 18, 2013 11:10:54 GMT -5
Can you answer this? Where did I say I think you're stuck on being mad at E?
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Post by andrew on Mar 18, 2013 11:17:09 GMT -5
What I said there wasn't so much about manner or about the words he uses (though it is linked), its about the inability to see what others are pointing to. When people point stuff out to me consistently, I may deny it initially, but I often come back afterwards and can see at least a bit of truth in it. E's frame of reference is such that he cannot see any truth in what is being pointed out to him by people that are pretty intelligent and intuitive. People have different ways of expressing what they see as the problem, but it can be boiled down to the same thing.....attachment to a position. Personally, I don't consider 'focusing on stories in our own heads' as necessarily always the most intelligent action. Sometimes this idea can be used to perpetuate separate and contain spontaneity/responsivity. What position is that? Experience suggests that whatever I say here, it will be dismissed, and I am not blaming you for that. Your frame of reference is such that whatever I said as a direct reply would genuinely and truthfully seem absurd to you. So I will say this instead. In order to see what is being said to you, I think would be helpful to look at the ideas that you have dismissed as false, and find the relative truth and validity in them. Including free will, volition, separation, cause and effect, selves. I guess whether you do it or not depends on whether you see any potential value in seeing what we see. |
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Post by silver on Mar 18, 2013 11:23:37 GMT -5
There is no right/wrong, just as there is no truth. These things, these situations are everchanging just like the ocean moves. You and Top seem to think I'm stuck on being 'mad at E' when it's something that couldn't be further from the truth. It's a jawdropping moment when Top says the kind of things he just said to me - like, non-duallies think it's wrong to express precisely how we feel when we feel it??? Like wow. Where did I say I think you're stuck on being mad at E? Right now you seem to be mad at me. Okay. Here it goes. I stopped being 'mad' at him for things in the past, and yet he most definitely has a way of irritating (!) enough peeps to make it pretty remarkable in its consistency, and it's not news that I'm one of those who find him consistently irritating. Perhaps I assumed it in this instance. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 18, 2013 11:26:13 GMT -5
In case you haven't noticed, there's a monkey sitting on your head and pulling your hair, Silver.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 11:30:00 GMT -5
Hehe....and there's the reason why Quinn cannot see what others here are saying. It reminds me of someone who lives in a country where peace and prosperity reigns, chastizing those who live in a war torn, poor country for pointing out the problems......telling them to 'stop complaining.' Quinn has never been the brunt of E's mocking or dismissal and he's never argued his pov over hers. You musta missed it. There have been a few times, but mostly he's only has to say it briefly. Either he's right or he's wrong. When he's right, I'm grateful. When he's wrong, I tell him. Briefly. So they're easy to miss - they don't go on for 50 pages. Your metaphor there is pretty funny. So in my little happy-place I can't see others in pain and anguish? Heehee. Where's the pain and anguish coming from? Nah...I wasn't so much referring to "pain and anguish there", just more an inability to empathize with or see what others are saying as you personally have had quite a different experience with E than some others here. And yes, I've never seen you tell E he was wrong... From what I've seen Quinn, it's just not really your style to argue for point of view. Therefore, even if you and E disagree on some small point, you'd likely just stop discussing it & let it go, before it ever got to the point of him mocking what he regarded to be your delusion or making sideways remarks about you to another whom he does see eye to eye with. |
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Post by andrew on Mar 18, 2013 11:32:11 GMT -5
In saying that you had no motivation at all, you are basically saying that something acted upon you or through you. I don't see love as an addition to the self, but I think its possible to experience more of what we are, and in doing so, we are likely to experience more love. No, I'm actually saying no 'me' acted. If it wasn't 'you' then something else invaded or acted upon your body or through your body. When we talk about 'doing but no doer', we are really pointing to a state. It's not actually true that 'the doer' is totally absent (even IF this 'doer' is a thought) from the experience. If it was, there would be no sense of cause and effect, no sense of purpose, no sense of motivatation, no sense of values, no sense of this being an experience, and none of these things would have any meaning. None of this stuff is left behind, nothing 'personal' is left behind, and neither is the experience of there being 'a doer', or 'a you'. When I was thinking about you earlier, a memory popped into my mind of something that happened some years ago in a gas station. A guy basically tried to steal something, the security jumped on him and the guy started hyperventilating in a big way. 'Unthinkingly' I stepped in to loosen the guards grip on the guy a bit and calm him down. I put my hand on his chest, spoke to him quietly and he calmed down. The guards stepped away and I stayed with the guy until the police came. This all happened 'in flow'. Afterwards I looked back on my actions and it seemed like a dream, like....'who the hell was that?'. It had all happened without thinking, without deliberation. But when my friends asked me about it (they had been there too), I could identify the motivation at every step of the way. I'm sure that if you wanted to, you could look closely at your motivation for reporting the posts, even though it happened spontaneously and seemingly thoughtlessly. You didn't used to report posts but something changed last year. There's the clue. I don't even care WHAT it is to be honest, I just don't accept that it happened without any sense of motivation. |
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