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Post by topology on Mar 9, 2013 20:57:08 GMT -5
Going forward, if there is anyone that feels like I am not coming empty to them, you have my permission to *thwack* me with the zen stick.
I left the forum because I needed to focus on my life outside the forum. I ended up breaking up with my wife. The weight of my relationship was affecting me significantly and I feel much lighter now. We share two young kids, so we're still a part of each other's lives but my energy and her energy are no longer tied together and I was being codependent in the relationship.
I want to give a blanket apology to everyone, my negative emotions in that relationship were affecting how I was interacting everywhere. So in some sense Andrew was right that my relationship with my wife was affecting my interaction here. Thanks Andrew for being you.
I want now to express a statement of purpose and give everyone permission to *thwack* me if I'm not living up to it.
I don't religiously practice the Course In Miracles, I don't consider myself a Christian and have no thoughts about this "Jesus" fellow, but I resonate deeply with the purpose of the Course in Miracles. The Course's message is about the change in perception that comes through the active practice of Forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't about forgetting about wrongs, its about seeing that there was no wrong to begin with. The course's workbook endeavors to restore a person's perception of the world to wholeness through challenging thoughts and beliefs, particularly negative thought patterns and beliefs in being separate. Shame, guilt, fear, jealousy, insecurity, etc.
One of the realizations that I had while first getting into the Course several years ago was that the highest honor and highest service you could perform for another person is to constantly come to them empty. What this means is somehow shedding the impressions, perceptions, judgments, and assumptions we make about others. As we interact with others we collect these things in our memory banks and then the next time we meet the person we relate to them through this built up crud. We stop seeing them as they are now and instead we relate to them through this built up image.
This is a fundamental mistake. Relating to a person through an image is not relating to them how they are right now. What is worse, it is subconsciously telling that person that that is how they are viewed and thus how they are (or should be). If the person is unconscious, it is encourage them to integrate that image into their self-image.
For many years now it has been my intentional practice to see people as whole and to shed my initial perceptions and impressions as much as possible. While I was caught up in the negative emotions and the unhappiness I had in my marriage, I was not able to keep this practice very well. I want to return to this practice and I would like to ask for everyone's help in this. If I am not coming to my interaction with you (or anyone) empty, If I am holding on to a stale perception or hardened impression, please let me know. Refer me back to this writing.
General message for the forum: How you perceive someone bleeds into your interaction with them. It becomes a subliminal message telling the other person how they are viewed. If a person has a weak sense of self, insecure, codependent, people pleasing, or empathic, this message gets picked up and may be integrated into a person's self image depending on how unconscious they are. If you see someone and relate to someone as if they are whole, that is the message they will integrate. If you see someone and relate to someone as if they are broken or unworthy or damaged, that is the message they will integrate.
It is my intent to cultivate a manner which exudes the message: "You
Are Whole." If anyone finds that my manner does not convey this message, then please confront me about it.
Edward
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 21:25:06 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped.
I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'.
What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment.
I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2013 21:42:24 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped. I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'. What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment. I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self. I think that the greatest fear for most folks is the withdrawing of identification with the fragment. It's like not giving up ones relationship with someone until they've established another relationship that they can identify with when they leave the current one. Where does the courage to just start swimming out into the ocean and trusting that they will be okay come from? |
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Post by topology on Mar 9, 2013 21:43:05 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped. I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'. What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment. I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self. ACIM is non-duality in Christian language. In telling someone "You are Whole", you are also telling them "You are not what/who you think you are". Telling someone "You Are Whole" is a challenge to the individual sense of self as feeling broken or disconnected is tied hand in hand with being identified with a self-concept. Identifying oneself as anything less than or separate from the totality is a fracture in the psyche or mind. acimexplained.com/a-summary-of-a-course-in-miracles/ |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 22:24:52 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped. I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'. What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment. I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self. I think that the greatest fear for most folks is the withdrawing of identification with the fragment. It's like not giving up ones relationship with someone until they've established another relationship that they can identify with when they leave the current one. Where does the courage to just start swimming out into the ocean and trusting that they will be okay come from? Yeah, I agree. I think most of the time the motivation to start swimming away comes when the lifeboat is mostly swamped and just isn't serving it's purpose anymore. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 22:27:03 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped. I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'. What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment. I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self. ACIM is non-duality in Christian language. In telling someone "You are Whole", you are also telling them "You are not what/who you think you are". Telling someone "You Are Whole" is a challenge to the individual sense of self as feeling broken or disconnected is tied hand in hand with being identified with a self-concept. Identifying oneself as anything less than or separate from the totality is a fracture in the psyche or mind. acimexplained.com/a-summary-of-a-course-in-miracles/ Seems to me that nearly everyone would think you are telling them they are a whole person, which might be believed but isn't actually true. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 9, 2013 23:00:33 GMT -5
My sympathies on the radical change to the situation there top.
"Coming empty" is a worthy challenge for sure.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 9, 2013 23:09:55 GMT -5
I'd say 'coming empty' is the perfect escape plan...  |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 9, 2013 23:15:53 GMT -5
Sorry for your situation. I understand the burden and why that had to be dropped. I didn't know some of these things about ACIM, and rez with the idea that forgiveness is seeing that there's nothing to forgive. Realizing this is what allows one to 'come empty'. What I'm not sure I rez with so much is the idea that we are all whole, unless you mean we are all wholeness. Seems to me the person, by definition, is fragmented, almost like incompleteness seeking it's own completion. The search doesn't actually end with the person finding completeness, but with the withdrawing of the identification with the fragment. I don't mean for 'fragment' to be derogatory. It's necessary for an individuated perspective to be incomplete by it's nature. A perspective on something is clearly not all perspectives on everything. Experience is only possible because the person, by itself, is itself incompleteness; a chunk carved out of wholeness that it may perceive something by virtue of apparently being something else, and therefore lacking that which is perceived as not the self. ACIM is non-duality in Christian language. In telling someone "You are Whole", you are also telling them "You are not what/who you think you are". Telling someone "You Are Whole" is a challenge to the individual sense of self as feeling broken or disconnected is tied hand in hand with being identified with a self-concept. Identifying oneself as anything less than or separate from the totality is a fracture in the psyche or mind. acimexplained.com/a-summary-of-a-course-in-miracles/ I reckon many folks get confused by the "already/have been empty" "one's whole life" when they actually get around to seeing IT. The ignorance that reverts to mind, which can only understand a fragment, to understand what is existing prior to mind at all times, like a bad habit, keeps the whole ignorance in motion. So, folks identify with the fragment of the actual whole, thinking they understand the whole.  Wholeness defies 'understanding' as one know it. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 23:41:56 GMT -5
I'd say 'coming empty' is the perfect escape plan... Attachments:
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 9, 2013 23:47:23 GMT -5
I'd say 'coming empty' is the perfect escape plan... Both have such reptilian brain stem projection/appearances. Serving up something cold-blooded? |
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2013 23:54:55 GMT -5
Both have such reptilian brain stem projection/appearances. Serving up something cold-blooded? Attachments:
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2013 0:06:31 GMT -5
I'd say 'coming empty' is the perfect escape plan...  Couldn't post a salivating devil head 'cause:  |
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Post by topology on Mar 10, 2013 0:18:13 GMT -5
Escaping what, Reefs?
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 0:55:02 GMT -5
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