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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 12:18:13 GMT -5
He no doubt has an impact on a lot of folks, and in many cases it may be a distracting influence. We can also talk about that 'echo' as a split mind focus, and the 'habituation' as playing into that split instead of resolving it. I am not savy on the concept of split mind focus yet. The split being a subtle judgment? The habituation being doubling down on the judgment and re-enforcing it? The idea that you are watching TV and don't want to be watching TV in spite of the fact that nobody is holding a gun to your head, implies that there are two of you; one who want to and one who doesn't. It's obviously not the case, and so mind comes up with this idea of a programmed habit, and concludes that it has to reprogram or work with cellular memory or see a therapist or some such other thing. Typically, it's hard work and fails more often than it succeeds because it is a mind game. In essence, mind convinces itself (pretends) that it can be controlled by it's own habitual programming, which leads to the idea that some long drawn out reprogramming is necessary, with the understanding that it may very well fail. Every time it confronts it's own nonsense in this way, it pretends it's an opportunity to reprogram or 'habituate' or do the right thing or whatever, but it's quite obviously still playing games with itself. It pats itself on the back when it succeeds in this valiant effort (because it perceives a need for support) and it bludgeons itself when it fails. (Because it perceives a need to be criticized) All the while mind is doing precisely what it wants to do, including playing cops and robbers with itself. Mind may ultimately 'win' if it decides to, but it has nothing to do with habituation or reprogramming. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 12:20:42 GMT -5
It looks to me like it only gets complicated when trying to explain the difference between how it was intended and how it was perceived. I think the intention was to help you stay focused on the topic, and you interpreted that as him placing requirements on you. However, the real problem is that he wanted to talk about nonduality, and you have no particular interest, so you understandably couldn't stay focused.  Seein' as you're going all Fantasia on me..... I have no idea what that means, just so you know. |
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Post by silver on Mar 28, 2013 12:26:01 GMT -5
Seein' as you're going all Fantasia on me..... I have no idea what that means, just so you know. What is the picture of? It's a sniper, of course. You are a sniper and um, Reefs has no objections, evidently, to you doing that to others - Just making a point of that - you go figure... What you posted didn't make sense to me, either. Empty of any reasonable explanation for you to say to me: I am interested. It's just when Top or anyone else explains it by a very circuitous route and asks questions that I have no idea how to answer or what they may be pointing at, it makes it especially challenging to grok nonduality and tangential top-ics.  |
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Post by topology on Mar 28, 2013 13:06:22 GMT -5
My point is that someone can teach "lessons" that are applicable to a subject they are not formally teaching. For example, that snippet that Andrew linked that I talked about helped improve my flow. Instead of turning on the TV, the thoughts came to mind that if I really wanted to change then I would do something else and a different decision happened. I went to my bedroom and journaled. It seems premature to dismiss Bashar's value if what he is saying is affecting people in constructive ways. Does someone have to teach the subject of flow before what they say helps you move into flow? Bashar isn't being dismissed as having no value any more than Tony Robins or the local preacher or any other teacher. They all have value to somebody at a given level of understanding/awareness, but all teachers are not created equal. I think it's absurd to introduce the Bashar chanelings into a nondual forum as though they dovetail in some way. It's not a sign of being open and flexible, it's a sign of being distracted. That seems a little short sighted. Regardless of what the sign says on the door, the conversation meanders and people have things come up in their lives. If a link to a sound byte was clear and helpful, I don't see a reason to preclude it. If a turd on the side of the road magically grew lips and uttered the most profound thing I'd every heard, I'd share it and attribute the source. As for the rest of the noises the turd makes, it sounds like a pile of crap. I'm not saying Bashar is a turd, just that bashing something just because it comes from Bashar isn't really looking at whether or not what was said has value or applicable. Banning Bashar or any other self-help guru seems short sighted on a forum whose topic is supposed to be able to address all situations that arise. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 13:18:03 GMT -5
Bashar isn't being dismissed as having no value any more than Tony Robins or the local preacher or any other teacher. They all have value to somebody at a given level of understanding/awareness, but all teachers are not created equal. I think it's absurd to introduce the Bashar chanelings into a nondual forum as though they dovetail in some way. It's not a sign of being open and flexible, it's a sign of being distracted. That seems a little short sighted. Regardless of what the sign says on the door, the conversation meanders and people have things come up in their lives. If a link to a sound byte was clear and helpful, I don't see a reason to preclude it. If a turd on the side of the road magically grew lips and uttered the most profound thing I'd every heard, I'd share it and attribute the source. As for the rest of the noises the turd makes, it sounds like a pile of crap. I'm not saying Bashar is a turd, just that bashing something just because it comes from Bashar isn't really looking at whether or not what was said has value or applicable. Banning Bashar or any other self-help guru seems short sighted on a forum whose topic is supposed to be able to address all situations that arise. I'm not open to listening to everything right now. I tried listening to Bashar but couldn't handle it. I tried listening to Abraham-Hicks and couldn't handle it. Too many red flags pop up. Channeling aliens?? I think you're right that this compromises my ability to learn helpful stuff they might have to say. I consider my close-mindedness just arbitrary ways of defining what to pay attention and what to ignore. It's biased and unfair and shorthand. Perhaps some day I'll open up to that stuff but it just doesn't float the boat right now. This is very similar to how I don't pay much attention to conspiracy theories and such in the political realm. Perhaps the US President is a secret Muslim looking to create fascist socialist theocracy, but I've determined that this is just not worth my time to pursue. Perhaps Global Warming activists are just secretly hoping to make lots of money of carbon credit trading.... You get the idea. When I hear that someone is channelling an alien I just turn the channel. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 13:41:44 GMT -5
I have no idea what that means, just so you know. What is the picture of? It's a sniper, of course. You are a sniper and um, Reefs has no objections, evidently, to you doing that to others - Just making a point of that - you go figure... So you don't like being called a sniper so you decided to call me one? Yeah, the way I see it, Top's approach might be useful for somebody who's really interested and determined and is willing to engage in hopes of gaining something in the end, without questioning the questioning process. It's not an appropriate approach for you. I'm not sure there is an appropriate approach for you because it seems to be only a passing interest. I speculate that mostly you're curious as to how the nonduality cult works and why it makes people behave so badly. |
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Post by silence on Mar 28, 2013 13:54:34 GMT -5
When I hear that someone is channelling an alien I just turn the channel. I do too for what it's worth. I haven't even remotely made it into a problem and could quite easily make it to my death bed without regretting soaking in more Bashar videos. |
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Post by silver on Mar 28, 2013 14:20:11 GMT -5
What is the picture of? It's a sniper, of course. You are a sniper and um, Reefs has no objections, evidently, to you doing that to others - Just making a point of that - you go figure... So you don't like being called a sniper so you decided to call me one? Yeah, the way I see it, Top's approach might be useful for somebody who's really interested and determined and is willing to engage in hopes of gaining something in the end, without questioning the questioning process. It's not an appropriate approach for you. I'm not sure there is an appropriate approach for you because it seems to be only a passing interest. I speculate that mostly you're curious as to how the nonduality cult works and why it makes people behave so badly. Why are you saying that nonduality makes people behave so badly? You don't believe in your own belief - yes, I kow it's no9t a belief - that's what you're going to say anyway... So, you're going to insist that I'mhere just for what? I think most people can mix business w/plesasure. You used to make joke about Tzu (it was funny) I don't like that froggie or something - and that's how you treat me, most of the time, you don't like me - I wouldn't mention it, but it shows in the nontruths you're wont to tell the viewing audience. Some people, you can't just intimidate or try all sorts of sales pitches to force them to see what you see. I guess I'm one of them. And like Andy says, I'm learning all I can by absorbing the ideas coming from all the convos going on here. In the meantime, it's going to be funner to at least try and like most if not all others. *shrug* I guess it happens when you are me and I am you. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 14:29:01 GMT -5
Bashar isn't being dismissed as having no value any more than Tony Robins or the local preacher or any other teacher. They all have value to somebody at a given level of understanding/awareness, but all teachers are not created equal. I think it's absurd to introduce the Bashar chanelings into a nondual forum as though they dovetail in some way. It's not a sign of being open and flexible, it's a sign of being distracted. That seems a little short sighted. Regardless of what the sign says on the door, the conversation meanders and people have things come up in their lives. If a link to a sound byte was clear and helpful, I don't see a reason to preclude it. If a turd on the side of the road magically grew lips and uttered the most profound thing I'd every heard, I'd share it and attribute the source. As for the rest of the noises the turd makes, it sounds like a pile of crap. I'm not saying Bashar is a turd, just that bashing something just because it comes from Bashar isn't really looking at whether or not what was said has value or applicable. Banning Bashar or any other self-help guru seems short sighted on a forum whose topic is supposed to be able to address all situations that arise. I agree, which is why Bashar is not being banned. I also don't bash ideas because they come from a particular teacher. In fact, one teacher I've always enjoyed, and have quoted from here, is Emmanuel, a delightful and poetic 'entity' chanelled by Pat Rodegast. The other day Marie and I were talking about certain videos of Ramtha addressing the school of enlightenment through JZ Knight. What is of interest there is the power of his presence. Is it more or less hokey than Bashar the magnificent? That's a matter of perspective and I'm fine with that. I've read dozens of chanelled books and participated in more than one 'Conversations with God forum'. I'm willing to look at the boundaries of any idea or presentation and judge it on it's own merit. Nothing is useless and everything is God Godding, so when you address me as short sighted are you certain you're coming empty? (tehe) |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 14:32:17 GMT -5
When I hear that someone is channelling an alien I just turn the channel. I do too for what it's worth. I haven't even remotely made it into a problem and could quite easily make it to my death bed without regretting soaking in more Bashar videos. Ahh, so you haven't done your homework as Andrew asked after all.  |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 14:39:58 GMT -5
So you don't like being called a sniper so you decided to call me one? Yeah, the way I see it, Top's approach might be useful for somebody who's really interested and determined and is willing to engage in hopes of gaining something in the end, without questioning the questioning process. It's not an appropriate approach for you. I'm not sure there is an appropriate approach for you because it seems to be only a passing interest. I speculate that mostly you're curious as to how the nonduality cult works and why it makes people behave so badly. Why are you saying that nonduality makes people behave so badly? I'm not saying that. Why write a story about it? So what does that mean? That I don't believe what you imagine I believe? Why write a story about it? I'm not going to insist you're here for just anything. Why write a story about it? I've told you repeatedly I have no issue with you at all. Why write a story about it? I'm not trying to intimidate or sell anything. Why write a story about it? |
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Post by silver on Mar 28, 2013 14:56:09 GMT -5
Why are you saying that nonduality makes people behave so badly? I'm not saying that. Why write a story about it? So what does that mean? That I don't believe what you imagine I believe? Why write a story about it? I'm not going to insist you're here for just anything. Why write a story about it? I've told you repeatedly I have no issue with you at all. Why write a story about it? I'm not trying to intimidate or sell anything. Why write a story about it? Oh stop!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 15:06:01 GMT -5
There may be some lead left in your heart from the pencil. What if your Dad did you a favour by putting his work before your writings? The desire to have your writings read, have pushed you to be as fluent and effective in language, as you have become. True, I wouldn't be where I am without developing the childhood complexes that I did. I wouldn't have gone to school in Pittsburgh and met the TAT guys and had the experiences that I had. My lamenting is more from the fact that I used to write poetry and fiction which I felt was far more creative than my analytical writing. When I think about sitting down to write creatively, thoughts of "that idea wouldn't be good enough" or "I'm just wasting my time" come up and I never sit down to write. Yeah that's where I'm coming from, an encouraging father would have created a whole different arrangement of experiences and drives in you. And to dream of them as somehow better than where you are, is to miss the value and depth of where you are. And I do understand that those echoes can be a hindrance. www.amazon.com/Ode-Less-Travelled-Unlocking-Within/dp/0099509342This book was written by another man, who has publicly admitted that he was also driven by feelings of never being clever enough, for his father. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 15:34:04 GMT -5
Point is, my 'accusations' are just as provable as yours.
All i keep hearing is your accusation, but no proof provided so far.
I have no doubt you are convinced you have proof, but i prefer to see it for myself
instead of simply believing you.
You know, direct experience instead of just believing what someone else experienced.
I learnt that lesson after detaching from the religion i was in.
All you have provided so far is you repeatedly stating your conclusions are correct,
but you have not proved your conclusions are correct.
Repeatedly sharing how convinced you are does not convince me in the slightest.
And it's ok enigma, i don't expect you to prove any of the things you claim.
I expect you to remain as you are, encased in your thought world that you're right and others are wrong.
It's been weeks of repeated asking, and you still don't provide proof so why would i expect you to change your MO.
Alright I'll rephrase. You can't prove your accusations any more than I can prove mine, so why not let it all go already?
If you can't prove silver was blackmailing, why claim it's a fact?
In light of this new statement you are making, perhaps the only thing that needs to be let go of
is your belief you are right when you have no proof you are.
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2013 18:01:32 GMT -5
Alright I'll rephrase. You can't prove your accusations any more than I can prove mine, so why not let it all go already?
If you can't prove silver was blackmailing, why claim it's a fact?
In light of this new statement you are making, perhaps the only thing that needs to be let go of
is your belief you are right when you have no proof you are.
"My accusations are just as provable as yours" is the same as "You can't prove your accusations any more than I can prove mine" given that you can't prove yours, which you know you can't. You seem to like to play games with words. |
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