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Post by silver on Mar 26, 2013 20:12:32 GMT -5
 Yes, and my apology was intended to whom (Beingist and anyone else) it may have offended. Are you apologizing for calling me silly?! Pfft. Silly! Yes, I know that, but I didn't think she'd believe me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 2:10:06 GMT -5
Please let me if i have interpreted this incorrectly. When enigma makes a derogative statement, or unverifed accuasation
about someone, you value his behavior more than the other's complaint about it because you've made your value judgement
from a state of being that is not influenced by your emotional wounds? too much presupposition to engage the question. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 2:24:34 GMT -5
Ahhh, but that's the thing silver, these people of the nonduality church really do percieve they know.
This is why they get upset when you(others) don't agree wth their claims and accusations about life and you.
And if they become frustrated enough, they end up telling others they are blind or stupid or some other derogatory remark
for not being able to see the truth that they see so easliy.
In other words, they insult others because they love them, they RT bash because they love you.When enigma and topology claim you are blackmailing, they see this is the absolute truth,
even though they don't have proof...all they have is their individual thoughts about it.
But because they live in a thought world where they unconsciously believe thier thoughts reflect the absolute truth about reality,
they don't see their statements are their thoughts, they actually see it's the absolute truth,
and they are just empty no self portals for this truth to shine forth from.
It's not their thoughts, they haven't "minded" these conclusions because they(self) doesn't exist,
there is no tricksy mind formulating these conclusions,
these statements they make come from Oneness, Presence, the Light of Consciousness.
In other words, they are the voice of god.
So when you say to them, "You are not seeing me for who i am."
All they are thinking is, "Oh no silver, it is you who doesn't see who you are."
Totally oblivious they fell for the oldest trick in the book and are blinded by the religion they are in.
Each religion claims to be the only path to truth, and each person in this religion
is so convinced this is true, that conscious thought is no longer required.
They exist on the absolute path of truth and there is no need to examine or debate it.
They went down the rabbit hole and totally forgot they went down it. MG, I came to my perspective and to the way I am through direct experience, intuition, skepticism, exploration, and searching for truth. You are full of speculation about me.
They are simply my observations and i put no conditions on them,
people can make up their own minds about what i say.
If you do not agree with my observations then you don't, i am ok with that.
If you wish to dispute anything i have said, i am also ok with that.
Direct experience = woo woo bs.
But if you think you can see pure truth by it, then may you be blessed in your religion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 2:30:49 GMT -5
Ahhh, but that's the thing silver, these people of the nonduality church really do percieve they know.
This is why they get upset when you(others) don't agree wth their claims and accusations about life and you.
And if they become frustrated enough, they end up telling others they are blind or stupid or some other derogatory remark
for not being able to see the truth that they see so easliy.
In other words, they insult others because they love them, they RT bash because they love you.When enigma and topology claim you are blackmailing, they see this is the absolute truth,
even though they don't have proof...all they have is their individual thoughts about it.
But because they live in a thought world where they unconsciously believe thier thoughts reflect the absolute truth about reality,
they don't see their statements are their thoughts, they actually see it's the absolute truth,
and they are just empty no self portals for this truth to shine forth from.
It's not their thoughts, they haven't "minded" these conclusions because they(self) doesn't exist,
there is no tricksy mind formulating these conclusions,
these statements they make come from Oneness, Presence, the Light of Consciousness.
In other words, they are the voice of god.
So when you say to them, "You are not seeing me for who i am."
All they are thinking is, "Oh no silver, it is you who doesn't see who you are."
Totally oblivious they fell for the oldest trick in the book and are blinded by the religion they are in.
Each religion claims to be the only path to truth, and each person in this religion
is so convinced this is true, that conscious thought is no longer required.
They exist on the absolute path of truth and there is no need to examine or debate it.
They went down the rabbit hole and totally forgot they went down it. Do you have any proof to back up your accusations?
It's been a few weeks now and i am still waiting for your proof of your claim that it's a fact that silver is blackmailing.
So how about you go first, seeing as my request was lodged way before your's was. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 27, 2013 2:58:08 GMT -5
Do you have any proof to back up your accusations?
It's been a few weeks now and i am still waiting for your proof of your claim that it's a fact that silver is blackmailing.
So how about you go first, seeing as my request was lodged way before your's was. Point is, my 'accusations' are just as provable as yours. |
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Post by silver on Mar 27, 2013 8:43:32 GMT -5
Okay. Now I'm getting a bit confused by what you're saying. I was raised in the Episcopal church, so I grew up believing we have spirits that reside in our bodies and when we die - poof the spirit goes elsewhere. I'm used to thinking like that. At this point, I'm not terribly certain how nonduallies see this.....Just like the glass is made to put water / drink in, the liquid never started out as the same thing as the glass. Non duallies would ask, how do you know what spirit is or that it exists? Where does it come from and where does it go? How can you come to learn the truth while shedding belief? Who or what is it that knows the answers, that knows the truth? These are questions to stimulate inquiry and move away from belief. To sit in the not knowing until a different kind of knowing comes forward. I noticed there was no class yesterday....or did you decide I was too uh difficult to teach? Or is that the end of it? (Sure seems like there oughta be more to it.......  ) |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 9:47:04 GMT -5
Non duallies would ask, how do you know what spirit is or that it exists? Where does it come from and where does it go? How can you come to learn the truth while shedding belief? Who or what is it that knows the answers, that knows the truth? These are questions to stimulate inquiry and move away from belief. To sit in the not knowing until a different kind of knowing comes forward. I noticed there was no class yesterday....or did you decide I was too uh difficult to teach? Or is that the end of it? (Sure seems like there oughta be more to it....... ) The "more to it" is all the work that needs to be done in dismantling what you think you know. The question I'm asking you is "What is separate from you?" You said the glass of water was separate from you but your hands and arms were not separate because they were connected to the body. This is an identification with the body. So I compared the body to a car, putting them on the same level. They are both vehicles. You seemed to agree with this saying that your spirit is what fills the vehicle of your body and drives it around. Let's return our attention to the body. Is the body really separate from its environment? The body has to breath, eat, drink, exhale, urinate, defecate, exercise and move around. If the body were truly separate from its environment then it would be able to sustain itself apart from the environment. Let's put a naked body in outer space. It doesn't last very long. The body is deeply entwined with its environment, in constant exchange and interaction. You drink the water and the water infuses into the cells of your body. Has a water molecule which was absorbed into a cell gone from being separate to not separate from you? Just on a physical level, the boundary between "me" and "not me" seems to be straight forward with respect to the boundary of the body, but if you look closer and closer, that boundary is full of holes. If your body is not separate from you, then the environment your body is intimately intertwined within is also not separate from you. Is the spirit separate from the flesh? We can see the flesh and know its nature through interaction and observation. How do we know there is spirit? You said you were raised and taught to believe in it. How do those people know spirit exists? Is it a giant chain of one person told another person to believe in it (or else experience negative reinforcement)? Or was there someone, somewhere, who had a direct experience of spirit and they testified to their direct experience. If someone else has a direct experience, why not you? So the question for you, Silver, is: Do you believe in spirit because someone else raised you to believe in spirit, or do you have your own direct experience? You pointed to your upbringing, but is that really why you think spirit exists? Or do you have direct experience of the realm/dimension of spirit? |
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Post by silver on Mar 27, 2013 10:00:10 GMT -5
I noticed there was no class yesterday....or did you decide I was too uh difficult to teach? Or is that the end of it? (Sure seems like there oughta be more to it....... ) The "more to it" is all the work that needs to be done in dismantling what you think you know. The question I'm asking you is "What is separate from you?" You said the glass of water was separate from you but your hands and arms were not separate because they were connected to the body. This is an identification with the body. So I compared the body to a car, putting them on the same level. They are both vehicles. You seemed to agree with this saying that your spirit is what fills the vehicle of your body and drives it around. Let's return our attention to the body. Is the body really separate from its environment? The body has to breath, eat, drink, exhale, urinate, defecate, exercise and move around. If the body were truly separate from its environment then it would be able to sustain itself apart from the environment. Let's put a naked body in outer space. It doesn't last very long. The body is deeply entwined with its environment, in constant exchange and interaction. You drink the water and the water infuses into the cells of your body. Has a water molecule which was absorbed into a cell gone from being separate to not separate from you? Just on a physical level, the boundary between "me" and "not me" seems to be straight forward with respect to the boundary of the body, but if you look closer and closer, that boundary is full of holes. If your body is not separate from you, then the environment your body is intimately intertwined within is also not separate from you. Is the spirit separate from the flesh? We can see the flesh and know its nature through interaction and observation. How do we know there is spirit? You said you were raised and taught to believe in it. How do those people know spirit exists? Is it a giant chain of one person told another person to believe in it (or else experience negative reinforcement)? Or was there someone, somewhere, who had a direct experience of spirit and they testified to their direct experience. If someone else has a direct experience, why not you? So the question for you, Silver, is: Do you believe in spirit because someone else raised you to believe in spirit, or do you have your own direct experience? You pointed to your upbringing, but is that really why you think spirit exists? Or do you have direct experience of the realm/dimension of spirit? MmHmm. I can see why you didn't come back to class. It's a hugea$$ topic. Like, all-encompassing. I like it, but we could go on forever about all of this - beliefs - how people come to have their beliefs - I love it, actually. Few people choose to continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy once they're told it's just 'for kids' and generations play along with this 'fun' thing. Nobody wants to let go of the daisy chain of believing in God or gods, though - *shrug* - I'm not quite sure how and why as a species we continue to believe for the most part that there is a god and spirits. I'm pretty sure there's something to it. Maybe we're all wrong, though and it's just conditioning, etc. I'd say that this deep childhood conditinoing (church/sunday school every week) found a real niche in my psyche and my life, but I realize that doesn't mean it's totally valid. I have what I believe rather strongly, that I've had indirect experience with 'spirit', and if not for the conditioning, and had the same experiences would it be easier to sort out whether the experiences would have the same impact and meaning. Like I said, big subject. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 10:06:26 GMT -5
Greetings.. I noticed there was no class yesterday....or did you decide I was too uh difficult to teach? Or is that the end of it? (Sure seems like there oughta be more to it....... ) The "more to it" is all the work that needs to be done in dismantling what you think you know. The question I'm asking you is "What is separate from you?" You said the glass of water was separate from you but your hands and arms were not separate because they were connected to the body. This is an identification with the body. So I compared the body to a car, putting them on the same level. They are both vehicles. You seemed to agree with this saying that your spirit is what fills the vehicle of your body and drives it around. Let's return our attention to the body. Is the body really separate from its environment? The body has to breath, eat, drink, exhale, urinate, defecate, exercise and move around. If the body were truly separate from its environment then it would be able to sustain itself apart from the environment. Let's put a naked body in outer space. It doesn't last very long. The body is deeply entwined with its environment, in constant exchange and interaction. You drink the water and the water infuses into the cells of your body. Has a water molecule which was absorbed into a cell gone from being separate to not separate from you? Just on a physical level, the boundary between "me" and "not me" seems to be straight forward with respect to the boundary of the body, but if you look closer and closer, that boundary is full of holes. If your body is not separate from you, then the environment your body is intimately intertwined within is also not separate from you. Is the spirit separate from the flesh? We can see the flesh and know its nature through interaction and observation. How do we know there is spirit? You said you were raised and taught to believe in it. How do those people know spirit exists? Is it a giant chain of one person told another person to believe in it (or else experience negative reinforcement)? Or was there someone, somewhere, who had a direct experience of spirit and they testified to their direct experience. If someone else has a direct experience, why not you? So the question for you, Silver, is: Do you believe in spirit because someone else raised you to believe in spirit, or do you have your own direct experience? You pointed to your upbringing, but is that really why you think spirit exists? Or do you have direct experience of the realm/dimension of spirit? Why is there a 'vehicle'? why do the 'parts' consistently arrange themselves for a 'greater purpose'? you're not understanding the actuality, you are seeking to validate your belief.. just look and see what is happening, 'vehicles' are happening.. mentally deconstructing the vehicle is an illusion for supporting your belief, don't believe, 'look'.. Be well.. |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 10:06:51 GMT -5
MG, I came to my perspective and to the way I am through direct experience, intuition, skepticism, exploration, and searching for truth. You are full of speculation about me.
They are simply my observations and i put no conditions on them,
people can make up their own minds about what i say.
If you do not agree with my observations then you don't, i am ok with that.
If you wish to dispute anything i have said, i am also ok with that.
Direct experience = woo woo bs.
But if you think you can see pure truth by it, then may you be blessed in your religion.
Direct experience is so "woo woo bs" that there is a whole field of rational philosophy dedicated to it: plato.stanford.edu/entries/phenomenology/ |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 10:32:09 GMT -5
The "more to it" is all the work that needs to be done in dismantling what you think you know. The question I'm asking you is "What is separate from you?" You said the glass of water was separate from you but your hands and arms were not separate because they were connected to the body. This is an identification with the body. So I compared the body to a car, putting them on the same level. They are both vehicles. You seemed to agree with this saying that your spirit is what fills the vehicle of your body and drives it around. Let's return our attention to the body. Is the body really separate from its environment? The body has to breath, eat, drink, exhale, urinate, defecate, exercise and move around. If the body were truly separate from its environment then it would be able to sustain itself apart from the environment. Let's put a naked body in outer space. It doesn't last very long. The body is deeply entwined with its environment, in constant exchange and interaction. You drink the water and the water infuses into the cells of your body. Has a water molecule which was absorbed into a cell gone from being separate to not separate from you? Just on a physical level, the boundary between "me" and "not me" seems to be straight forward with respect to the boundary of the body, but if you look closer and closer, that boundary is full of holes. If your body is not separate from you, then the environment your body is intimately intertwined within is also not separate from you. Is the spirit separate from the flesh? We can see the flesh and know its nature through interaction and observation. How do we know there is spirit? You said you were raised and taught to believe in it. How do those people know spirit exists? Is it a giant chain of one person told another person to believe in it (or else experience negative reinforcement)? Or was there someone, somewhere, who had a direct experience of spirit and they testified to their direct experience. If someone else has a direct experience, why not you? So the question for you, Silver, is: Do you believe in spirit because someone else raised you to believe in spirit, or do you have your own direct experience? You pointed to your upbringing, but is that really why you think spirit exists? Or do you have direct experience of the realm/dimension of spirit? MmHmm. I can see why you didn't come back to class. It's a hugea$$ topic. Like, all-encompassing. I like it, but we could go on forever about all of this - beliefs - how people come to have their beliefs - I love it, actually. Few people choose to continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy once they're told it's just 'for kids' and generations play along with this 'fun' thing. Nobody wants to let go of the daisy chain of believing in God or gods, though - *shrug* - I'm not quite sure how and why as a species we continue to believe for the most part that there is a god and spirits. I'm pretty sure there's something to it. Maybe we're all wrong, though and it's just conditioning, etc. I'd say that this deep childhood conditinoing (church/sunday school every week) found a real niche in my psyche and my life, but I realize that doesn't mean it's totally valid. I have what I believe rather strongly, that I've had indirect experience with 'spirit', and if not for the conditioning, and had the same experiences would it be easier to sort out whether the experiences would have the same impact and meaning. Like I said, big subject. I didn't "come back to class" because you hadn't responded yet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic But thanks for adding the extra story about what my reasons for not "coming back to class" were. What was your "indirect experience with 'spirit'"? I don't know how anyone can have an indirect experience with spirit. If I remember correctly, were you visited by your son a few times after his passing? Do you view that as direct experience with spirit? |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 10:33:37 GMT -5
Greetings.. The "more to it" is all the work that needs to be done in dismantling what you think you know. The question I'm asking you is "What is separate from you?" You said the glass of water was separate from you but your hands and arms were not separate because they were connected to the body. This is an identification with the body. So I compared the body to a car, putting them on the same level. They are both vehicles. You seemed to agree with this saying that your spirit is what fills the vehicle of your body and drives it around. Let's return our attention to the body. Is the body really separate from its environment? The body has to breath, eat, drink, exhale, urinate, defecate, exercise and move around. If the body were truly separate from its environment then it would be able to sustain itself apart from the environment. Let's put a naked body in outer space. It doesn't last very long. The body is deeply entwined with its environment, in constant exchange and interaction. You drink the water and the water infuses into the cells of your body. Has a water molecule which was absorbed into a cell gone from being separate to not separate from you? Just on a physical level, the boundary between "me" and "not me" seems to be straight forward with respect to the boundary of the body, but if you look closer and closer, that boundary is full of holes. If your body is not separate from you, then the environment your body is intimately intertwined within is also not separate from you. Is the spirit separate from the flesh? We can see the flesh and know its nature through interaction and observation. How do we know there is spirit? You said you were raised and taught to believe in it. How do those people know spirit exists? Is it a giant chain of one person told another person to believe in it (or else experience negative reinforcement)? Or was there someone, somewhere, who had a direct experience of spirit and they testified to their direct experience. If someone else has a direct experience, why not you? So the question for you, Silver, is: Do you believe in spirit because someone else raised you to believe in spirit, or do you have your own direct experience? You pointed to your upbringing, but is that really why you think spirit exists? Or do you have direct experience of the realm/dimension of spirit? Why is there a 'vehicle'? why do the 'parts' consistently arrange themselves for a 'greater purpose'? you're not understanding the actuality, you are seeking to validate your belief.. just look and see what is happening, 'vehicles' are happening.. mentally deconstructing the vehicle is an illusion for supporting your belief, don't believe, 'look'.. Be well.. You're deconstructing what I'm saying. Look at what I'm doing. Having a possibly productive conversation with Silver. |
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Post by silver on Mar 27, 2013 10:46:19 GMT -5
MmHmm. I can see why you didn't come back to class. It's a hugea$$ topic. Like, all-encompassing. I like it, but we could go on forever about all of this - beliefs - how people come to have their beliefs - I love it, actually. Few people choose to continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy once they're told it's just 'for kids' and generations play along with this 'fun' thing. Nobody wants to let go of the daisy chain of believing in God or gods, though - *shrug* - I'm not quite sure how and why as a species we continue to believe for the most part that there is a god and spirits. I'm pretty sure there's something to it. Maybe we're all wrong, though and it's just conditioning, etc. I'd say that this deep childhood conditinoing (church/sunday school every week) found a real niche in my psyche and my life, but I realize that doesn't mean it's totally valid. I have what I believe rather strongly, that I've had indirect experience with 'spirit', and if not for the conditioning, and had the same experiences would it be easier to sort out whether the experiences would have the same impact and meaning. Like I said, big subject. I didn't "come back to class" because you hadn't responded yet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic But thanks for adding the extra story about what my reasons for not "coming back to class" were. What was your "indirect experience with 'spirit'"? I don't know how anyone can have an indirect experience with spirit. If I remember correctly, were you visited by your son a few times after his passing? Do you view that as direct experience with spirit? I can see you take after papa E. You find fault an awful lot. I WAS having what I thought was an open conversation with you about things, but you chose to see it as putting you down. I didn't see anything in that post about what I'd mentioned earlier about continuing with the class. I'd say in part, another diversionary tactic - I don't know your motivations and I'll find out sooner or later - but it doesn't matter. You seem to want to try very hard to deflect anything you see as criticisms. We all do that. I accept your attitude. You wanted Andrew to be more open and yet you yourself reserve the right to not do the same, and then act like no one will notice. 'Experiences' with spirit are indirect - always - no matter how valid / real they may seem at the time. Wanting to believe isn't the same as proof that these experiences were no more than wishful coincidences, but I DO tend to believe they are valid - still doesn't prove it. I've had other experiences with vague but very very strong premonitions about things I would have no idea they were going to happen. I believe I shared some of this stuff on SF and SB - Maybe you and I could start a thread for woo-woo experiences or call them anything you like. I'd be willing to bet everyone's had them, they just are shy of sharing them for various reasons, which is fine. |
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Post by Beingist on Mar 27, 2013 12:53:10 GMT -5
I can see you [tops] take after papa E. You find fault an awful lot. To be totally frank, I consider top to be one of the least, if not THE least judgmental person here, Ag. Hence, I simply cannot put the above statement and my understanding of tops together. Like, in any way whatsoever. Edit: oh, and it's 'papa E'. It's Uncle 'nigma. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 13:17:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Why is there a 'vehicle'? why do the 'parts' consistently arrange themselves for a 'greater purpose'? you're not understanding the actuality, you are seeking to validate your belief.. just look and see what is happening, 'vehicles' are happening.. mentally deconstructing the vehicle is an illusion for supporting your belief, don't believe, 'look'.. Be well.. You're deconstructing what I'm saying. Look at what I'm doing. Having a possibly productive conversation with Silver. <Thwack> You are honing your self-image.. you are trying to validate your role as teacher, what do you believe you are teaching.. what do you believe you are learning? Be well.. |
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