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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 13:18:11 GMT -5
I didn't "come back to class" because you hadn't responded yet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic But thanks for adding the extra story about what my reasons for not "coming back to class" were. What was your "indirect experience with 'spirit'"? I don't know how anyone can have an indirect experience with spirit. If I remember correctly, were you visited by your son a few times after his passing? Do you view that as direct experience with spirit? I can see you take after papa E. You find fault an awful lot. I WAS having what I thought was an open conversation with you about things, but you chose to see it as putting you down. I didn't see anything in that post about what I'd mentioned earlier about continuing with the class. I'd say in part, another diversionary tactic - I don't know your motivations and I'll find out sooner or later - but it doesn't matter. You seem to want to try very hard to deflect anything you see as criticisms. We all do that. I accept your attitude. You wanted Andrew to be more open and yet you yourself reserve the right to not do the same, and then act like no one will notice. 'Experiences' with spirit are indirect - always - no matter how valid / real they may seem at the time. Wanting to believe isn't the same as proof that these experiences were no more than wishful coincidences, but I DO tend to believe they are valid - still doesn't prove it. I've had other experiences with vague but very very strong premonitions about things I would have no idea they were going to happen. I believe I shared some of this stuff on SF and SB - Maybe you and I could start a thread for woo-woo experiences or call them anything you like. I'd be willing to bet everyone's had them, they just are shy of sharing them for various reasons, which is fine. Why is E my papa? What I'm finding fault with is story telling which extrapolates way beyond what is said or happening. Hypothesis about motives, assumptions about how things are viewed. What criticism do you see me deflecting? I said I wanted Andrew to be more direct, not open. I don't find experiences with spirit to be indirect. Unless you have a concept of spirit in mind which is telling you that spirit is indirect, "always"? I experience psychic phenomena and have a direct experience of spirit. I have several friends who experience the presence of disembodied spirits and other presences. Believing in something without direct experience of it seems odd. But the subject is separation. The distinction between "me" and "not me". I will agree that it is very easy to identify with the localized mind and body that fills with a flavor of being, a way of thinking, a personality and psyche. But is that local accumulation of dense energy you? All of you? The whole of you? OR are you more than that? The experiencer, not just of the local body-mind but of the world that is occurring. If the experiencer identifies with the local body-mind, it feels cut off and disconnected because it identifies itself with something less than the whole of who/what it is. The loss of distinction between "me" and "not me" returns the experiencer to its proper focus, the totality of the experience. This is the communion between the experiencer and the experience. The experiencer feels connected, present, participating in the experience and breathing in the essence of what is manifesting. The experiencer stands in awe and wonder of the experience. This is the experience as the sense of separation diminishes. Sitting with that glass of water, communing with it, breathing in its essence. It is not separate from you. |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 13:26:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. You're deconstructing what I'm saying. Look at what I'm doing. Having a possibly productive conversation with Silver. <Thwack> You are honing your self-image.. you are trying to validate your role as teacher, what do you believe you are teaching.. what do you believe you are learning? Be well.. Yes Roshi Li, I will go back to being your complacent student.  |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 13:32:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. <Thwack> You are honing your self-image.. you are trying to validate your role as teacher, what do you believe you are teaching.. what do you believe you are learning? Be well.. Yes Roshi Li, I will go back to being your complacent student. Why do you think you have to 'play a role'.. why not just be authentic? were the questions i asked difficult? Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 13:44:42 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes Roshi Li, I will go back to being your complacent student. Why do you think you have to 'play a role'.. why not just be authentic? were the questions i asked difficult? Be well.. Hi Tzu, With the little smiley, I read Top's remark as a gentle joke. The substance of the joke is centered on being able to look at the content of your critique of Top (that he's honing a teacher identity) as something that could be applicable to your own comment (that you are actually trying to teach Top). So he replied by remarking that he should then be a student. The teacher-student relationship is a theme you brought to the table so he was going with it in a gentle ribbing way. What you see above is my attempt at being authentic and direct. In my opinion, Top's joke was much more artful in getting the same content across. It's possible to be authentic and also make jokes, eh? |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 13:57:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Why do you think you have to 'play a role'.. why not just be authentic? were the questions i asked difficult? Be well.. Hi Tzu, With the little smiley, I read Top's remark as a gentle joke. The substance of the joke is centered on being able to look at the content of your critique of Top (that he's honing a teacher identity) as something that could be applicable to your own comment (that you are actually trying to teach Top). So he replied by remarking that he should then be a student. The teacher-student relationship is a theme you brought to the table so he was going with it in a gentle ribbing way. What you see above is my attempt at being authentic and direct. In my opinion, Top's joke was much more artful in getting the same content across. It's possible to be authentic and also make jokes, eh? The 'artful joke' is only artful if it's both a joke and artful.. As we explore these topics, much is missed or misunderstood in guise of jokes'.. a 'point' being made through a 'joke' suffers by the ambiguity or missed point, often leading away from the greater potential of plain and simple communication.. Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 14:03:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi Tzu, With the little smiley, I read Top's remark as a gentle joke. The substance of the joke is centered on being able to look at the content of your critique of Top (that he's honing a teacher identity) as something that could be applicable to your own comment (that you are actually trying to teach Top). So he replied by remarking that he should then be a student. The teacher-student relationship is a theme you brought to the table so he was going with it in a gentle ribbing way. What you see above is my attempt at being authentic and direct. In my opinion, Top's joke was much more artful in getting the same content across. It's possible to be authentic and also make jokes, eh? The 'artful joke' is only artful if it's both a joke and artful.. As we explore these topics, much is missed or misunderstood in guise of jokes'.. a 'point' being made through a 'joke' suffers by the ambiguity or missed point, often leading away from the greater potential of plain and simple communication.. Be well.. Tastes will vary, for sure. And I agree that sometimes folks hide behind jokes to avoid engaging in the points. I'm guilty of that myself. To be non-jokey then, do you see how the content of your critique of Top (that he is refining an identity as a teacher) might be applicable to the very comment from which that critique emanated? I see it and it looks to me as a good example of the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 14:07:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. The 'artful joke' is only artful if it's both a joke and artful.. As we explore these topics, much is missed or misunderstood in guise of jokes'.. a 'point' being made through a 'joke' suffers by the ambiguity or missed point, often leading away from the greater potential of plain and simple communication.. Be well.. Tastes will vary, for sure. And I agree that sometimes folks hide behind jokes to avoid engaging in the points. I'm guilty of that myself. To be non-jokey then, do you see how the content of your critique of Top (that he is refining an identity as a teacher) might be applicable to the very comment from which that critique emanated? I see it and it looks to me as a good example of the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. By that logic all comments fall into the same category.. i figure Top will understand the discussion better than an advocate, it was his request to be 'reminded'.. Be well.. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 27, 2013 14:13:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. The 'artful joke' is only artful if it's both a joke and artful.. As we explore these topics, much is missed or misunderstood in guise of jokes'.. a 'point' being made through a 'joke' suffers by the ambiguity or missed point, often leading away from the greater potential of plain and simple communication.. Be well.. Tastes will vary, for sure. And I agree that sometimes folks hide behind jokes to avoid engaging in the points. I'm guilty of that myself. To be non-jokey then, do you see how the content of your critique of Top (that he is refining an identity as a teacher) might be applicable to the very comment from which that critique emanated? I see it and it looks to me as a good example of the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. Also the phenomenon of recursion, ie: self-reference. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 14:24:32 GMT -5
Tastes will vary, for sure. And I agree that sometimes folks hide behind jokes to avoid engaging in the points. I'm guilty of that myself. To be non-jokey then, do you see how the content of your critique of Top (that he is refining an identity as a teacher) might be applicable to the very comment from which that critique emanated? I see it and it looks to me as a good example of the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. By that logic all comments fall into the same category.. i figure Top will understand the discussion better than an advocate, it was his request to be 'reminded'.. Be well.. I bow to your remindering. |
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Post by topology on Mar 27, 2013 14:26:59 GMT -5
Greetings.. You're deconstructing what I'm saying. Look at what I'm doing. Having a possibly productive conversation with Silver. <Thwack> You are honing your self-image.. you are trying to validate your role as teacher, what do you believe you are teaching.. what do you believe you are learning? Be well.. I want to see where Silver's understanding is at wrt to "non-dualism". She's been on the board for a while, what's she getting out of it? Has she explored ATA beyond thinking about it? What is her sense of separation? As for what I am teaching? No idea. I'm trying to relate how I've changed and how I experience the world after going through those changes. The answer to those questions are what I am learning. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 14:27:36 GMT -5
Greetings.. Tastes will vary, for sure. And I agree that sometimes folks hide behind jokes to avoid engaging in the points. I'm guilty of that myself. To be non-jokey then, do you see how the content of your critique of Top (that he is refining an identity as a teacher) might be applicable to the very comment from which that critique emanated? I see it and it looks to me as a good example of the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. Also the phenomenon of recursion, ie: self-reference. It seems that you look for opportunities for using that word, "recursion".. why not explain the self-referential loop more plainly? that's one of the issue, here.. jokes, intellectual superiority, ideological references, self-proclaimed teachers, etc, but.. plainly spoken direct discussions are rare.. Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 14:29:15 GMT -5
the usefulness of the phenomena of projection. Also the phenomenon of recursion, ie: self-reference. I'm not as familiar with that concept (and only freshly familiar with projection). How is it compared to projection? |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 27, 2013 14:33:38 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. <Thwack> You are honing your self-image.. you are trying to validate your role as teacher, what do you believe you are teaching.. what do you believe you are learning? Be well.. I want to see where Silver's understanding is at wrt to "non-dualism". She's been on the board for a while, what's she getting out of it? Has she explored ATA beyond thinking about it? What is her sense of separation? As for what I am teaching? No idea. I'm trying to relate how I've changed and how I experience the world after going through those changes. The answer to those questions are what I am learning. I don't know what "wrt" or ATA is.. but, thanks for the plain talk.. you appear to be teaching others in the manner of E's MO, seemingly an emulation, though slightly softer at the moment.. Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 14:33:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. Also the phenomenon of recursion, ie: self-reference. It seems that you look for opportunities for using that word, "recursion".. why not explain the self-referential loop more plainly? that's one of the issue, here.. jokes, intellectual superiority, ideological references, self-proclaimed teachers, etc, but.. plainly spoken direct discussions are rare.. Be well.. Why not just ask him to clarify the term without lumping him in with that list of things that you see as issues? We all come to the table with our own understanding of terms and concepts. It seems to me very clear that to maintain direct discussions it is useful to avoid putting your discussant on defense. Hehe, rereading this, I see the way it could be read as me putting my discussant on defense, perhaps illustrating recursion and projection?? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 14:46:26 GMT -5
Greetings.. I want to see where Silver's understanding is at wrt to "non-dualism". She's been on the board for a while, what's she getting out of it? Has she explored ATA beyond thinking about it? What is her sense of separation? As for what I am teaching? No idea. I'm trying to relate how I've changed and how I experience the world after going through those changes. The answer to those questions are what I am learning. I don't know what "wrt" or ATA is.. but, thanks for the plain talk.. you appear to be teaching others in the manner of E's MO, seemingly an emulation, though slightly softer at the moment.. Be well.. wrt= with respect to ATA= American Tractor Association |
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