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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 18:17:28 GMT -5
I would say there is some universality, but I also think there is some gender difference. Even with you, you seem to have a particular concern for how Silver sees things. Maybe that's because of the relationship you have, but then that's the point isn't it. Yes, Silver may project her hurts onto you, but you may well be doing the same thing. Silver is the only person I've PMed with in depth on this form and most of that interaction was initiated by her, not me. So yes, she sticks out in my mind more. Not because she's a woman but because she had a closer interaction with me. You're doing your darndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. would it hurt though, just to look at it? You've shared that you're having some problems at home. I very much embrace the idea that there are common threads running through all aspects of our experience, and often when we can see those common threads, it goes a long ways towards mending what currently feels broken and in general, bringing in some clarity. I know I've come to some real epiphanies myself through seeing the common thread inherent within a particular engagement I might be having here and then something that's occurring in my at home reality....and perhaps even something that's occurring on another front. It's all connected. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 18:19:13 GMT -5
Silver is the only person I've PMed with in depth on this form and most of that interaction was initiated by her, not me. So yes, she sticks out in my mind more. Not because she's a woman but because she had a closer interaction with me. You're doing your darndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. would it hurt though, just to look at it? You've shared that you're having some problems at home. I very much embrace the idea that there are common threads running through all aspects of our experience, and often when we can see those common threads, it goes a long ways towards mending what currently feels broken and in general, bringing in some clarity. I know I've come to some real epiphanies myself through seeing the common thread inherent within a particular engagement I might be having here and then something that's occurring in my at home reality....and perhaps even something that's occurring on another front. It's all connected. yep, I can relate to that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 18:20:36 GMT -5
I don't think it can be finally established as true or false. Personally I think there is some truth in it, but in the end its up to you whether or not you want to consider the possibility. I agree that Silver may well be projecting some of her pain, but that's been well documented already. I am suggesting that there is another side of the coin here. I won't comment on Reefs in this instance because he doesn't share anything about his personal life. I could speculate some more, but its a step too far given the absence of information. What I see you and E have in common is a strong focus on 'what's true' and a consistent preference to keep 'reality' at hand and 'imagination' at a distance. You call this 'being conscious'. Based on what you have both said, my guess is that you 'lead' or 'encourage' or 'guide' your partners to do the same, but my guess is that your partners just don't quite share the same level of interest, or commitment to that focus/preference. And neither does Silver have a massive interest in it, and when you see her speaking in such a way that is reflective of not being 'conscious', it grabs your attention. Personally, I don't have a big interest in it either, I can see a level of value in it, but its not a priority for me by any means. Marie very much shares my interest. It's the most important thing in her life, hence the sincerity. I'm sincerely interested E. Does Marie ever 'teach' you something or guide you to greater clarity or help you to go deeper or is it always you in the teaching position and her as the spiritual student? |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 18:36:05 GMT -5
Marie very much shares my interest. It's the most important thing in her life, hence the sincerity. Ah, but she obviously doesn't have the same level of focus/commitment/preference that you do, otherwise there would be nothing to teach her. You wouldn't be satsang leader. She would be looking at 'what's true' consistently without your guidance. She would already 'be conscious'. So she doesn't quite share the depth of your commitment. I can well believe that she loves you so much that she WANTS to share the depth of your commitment. Is there a point? |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 18:40:18 GMT -5
You don't even bother to put some creative energy into your insults. If my remark about your inability to see with clarity is an insult to you then I can understand why you repeatedly have the same problems. Your learning potential is blocked with the aggressive purpose of your mind which is fighting to prove its specialness which it actually lacks. Trying to compensate that lack of specialness your mind invents and imagines all kinds of threats and menaces which it is supposed to eliminate in order to survive. This is one (but not the only one) reason of your being delusioned so much. Another reason why you are delusioned so much is your lack of understanding the things, the life in general. That' a little better. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 18:43:36 GMT -5
You're doing your darndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. I noticed that too. There are lots of folks with a mission to find something wrong. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 18:49:32 GMT -5
Marie very much shares my interest. It's the most important thing in her life, hence the sincerity. I'm sincerely interested E. Does Marie ever 'teach' you something or guide you to greater clarity or help you to go deeper or is it always you in the teaching position and her as the spiritual student? How goes the witch hunt? Seems you've got Top's problem all figured out. Now you just have to finish my story. This is all based on the idea that we did something wrong. Any idea what that is, or does it matter? |
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Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 18:52:43 GMT -5
Ah, but she obviously doesn't have the same level of focus/commitment/preference that you do, otherwise there would be nothing to teach her. You wouldn't be satsang leader. She would be looking at 'what's true' consistently without your guidance. She would already 'be conscious'. So she doesn't quite share the depth of your commitment. I can well believe that she loves you so much that she WANTS to share the depth of your commitment. Is there a point? Yes. I am saying that it's possible that the women here that don't share your interest in 'what's true' represent that part of Marie that isn't interested, which would be a minor source of irritation for you. Forums are a good place to play out our irritations. So I'm saying that we are all in the same boat here. Its not JUST Silver projecting her hurt, you are projecting too. |
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Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 19:41:41 GMT -5
Silver is the only person I've PMed with in depth on this form and most of that interaction was initiated by her, not me. So yes, she sticks out in my mind more. Not because she's a woman but because she had a closer interaction with me. You're doing your darndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. If you don't want to look at it, then its only natural that you would label it a giraffe. Think about it. I'm just putting the possibility out there. If you have some frustrations associated with your marriage to do with a lack of shared values/focus between you and your wife, it makes sense that you would play out those frustrations on a forum. Particularly with women. You are not the only one though. I think its quite likely that my irritation when I see Enigma and others separating themselves into an unreproachable 'above' position is linked to my relationship with my Dad (who does something similar in his own way). What would looking at it to your satisfaction entail? I looked at what you were presenting, your interpretation of what is going on and I noticed that it didn't account for all the evidence on the table. I have sat with the idea you're proposing, that I'm projecting my frustration with my wife onto Silver. I'm not having any kind of aversive reaction. I'm not seeing how to apply it. It just looks like an idea in my mind. I will say that when I am frustrated, not just from my wife but in general, that can influence how I interact with everyone, meaning a little short on attention, more quips instead of weighed responses, etc. What would I need to do in order for you to feel like I've given the matter ample consideration? |
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Post by arisha on Feb 10, 2013 19:43:00 GMT -5
If my remark about your inability to see with clarity is an insult to you then I can understand why you repeatedly have the same problems. Your learning potential is blocked with the aggressive purpose of your mind which is fighting to prove its specialness which it actually lacks. Trying to compensate that lack of specialness your mind invents and imagines all kinds of threats and menaces which it is supposed to eliminate in order to survive. This is one (but not the only one) reason of your being delusioned so much. Another reason why you are delusioned so much is your lack of understanding the things, the life in general. That' a little better. I've just showed you how your mind works. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 19:46:31 GMT -5
Ah, but she obviously doesn't have the same level of focus/commitment/preference that you do, otherwise there would be nothing to teach her. You wouldn't be satsang leader. Is there a point? I can't believe someone made you satsang leader. That's a pretty good point. Gol durn smokey backrooms of speerchuality..... |
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Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 19:51:10 GMT -5
If you don't want to look at it, then its only natural that you would label it a giraffe. Think about it. I'm just putting the possibility out there. If you have some frustrations associated with your marriage to do with a lack of shared values/focus between you and your wife, it makes sense that you would play out those frustrations on a forum. Particularly with women. You are not the only one though. I think its quite likely that my irritation when I see Enigma and others separating themselves into an unreproachable 'above' position is linked to my relationship with my Dad (who does something similar in his own way). What would looking at it to your satisfaction entail? I looked at what you were presenting, your interpretation of what is going on and I noticed that it didn't account for all the evidence on the table. I have sat with the idea you're proposing, that I'm projecting my frustration with my wife onto Silver. I'm not having any kind of aversive reaction. I'm not seeing how to apply it. It just looks like an idea in my mind. I will say that when I am frustrated, not just from my wife but in general, that can influence how I interact with everyone, meaning a little short on attention, more quips instead of weighed responses, etc. What would I need to do in order for you to feel like I've given the matter ample consideration? To be clear, what I am suggesting is not that you quip, or are short on attention. Quite the opposite really. What I am suggesting is that you focus on Silver taking responsibility for projections because your wife doesn't have that big an interest in doing that. If your wife doesn't share your values/focus, then there will be tension because of the particular nature of your values/focus. No amount of you taking responsibility for the sense of that tension will dissolve it, it has to play itself out with someone else. So Silver gets pushed. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 19:58:02 GMT -5
I can't believe someone made you satsang leader. That's a pretty good point. Gol durn smokey backrooms of speerchuality..... The name of the satsang was "squirrel satsang." C'mon, fess up. How'd ya do it? |
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Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 20:26:15 GMT -5
What would looking at it to your satisfaction entail? I looked at what you were presenting, your interpretation of what is going on and I noticed that it didn't account for all the evidence on the table. I have sat with the idea you're proposing, that I'm projecting my frustration with my wife onto Silver. I'm not having any kind of aversive reaction. I'm not seeing how to apply it. It just looks like an idea in my mind. I will say that when I am frustrated, not just from my wife but in general, that can influence how I interact with everyone, meaning a little short on attention, more quips instead of weighed responses, etc. What would I need to do in order for you to feel like I've given the matter ample consideration? To be clear, what I am suggesting is not that you quip, or are short on attention. Quite the opposite really. What I am suggesting is that you focus on Silver taking responsibility for projections because your wife doesn't have that big an interest in doing that. If your wife doesn't share your values/focus, then there will be tension because of the particular nature of your values/focus. No amount of you taking responsibility for the sense of that tension will dissolve it, it has to play itself out with someone else. So Silver gets pushed. I see what you're talking about. But it's not just with Silver. Do you remember Midnight? And you make it sound like if my wife shared the same values that I wouldn't be pushing on anyone else. Is it that I am projecting my frustration with my wife? Or is it that I push something I've found tremendous value in? Being self-aware and conscious of what is going on in the psyche. |
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Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 20:40:55 GMT -5
I can agree with this. When someone is in the midst of resistivity, i.e. having an extremely negative reaction to style (example Silver wrt Reefs), do you see it as having a negative impact on readiness? Or do you see it as a catalyst if the readiness is there? What in your mind leads to readiness? The reason I see Reef's style as counterproductive is that it is prone to building a resentment and a closed ear to the message. I see a shut-down and active avoidance. Go back to Trauma and Resiliency. Reef's style, I feel, pushes the trauma past the point of resiliency and creates some damage which takes longer to recover from. I try to keep the level of trauma within the scope of resiliency. So in Reef's eyes I look like a fence sitter because I won't push past what I sense is a boundary between resiliency being possible and interfering with resiliency. Welp, I don't see that a 'negative reaction' or a 'positive reaction' either facilitates or obstructs readiness, as readiness is more about sincerity than emotional calmness. The negative reaction may very well be an indicator of readiness as, if there is truly none, many of the comments simply won't register as making any sense. (Something that happens with Silver at times) There must be a willingness to see what one doesn't want to see, and this willingness requires a compensating motivation. Repeated struggle can act as this motivation, or a deep trust. Obviously, these correspond to the approaches we're talking about. This isn't the kind of trust that says 'I know you'll never say anything to hurt me and will always support me', which is the kind of trust folks are often looking for in friends and mates. This is the kind of trust that says 'I believe in you and I know you'll tell me what's true'. This kind of trust is rare as hen's teeth in the cyber world and I'm not interested in cultivating it. The latter is the kind of trust Marie has for me. It doesn't mean she believes everything I say, it means she will likely look wherever I point to see for herself, because she knows it's not about believing but rather seeing. She may struggle with ideas and insights, but she never struggles with me. Because there is always the willingness to look, she notices, sees, realizes and ideas and fears fall away. The more she sees this happen, the more willing she is to look. The way I interact on line is different and not as effective. I'm not committed to building and maintaining that trust, which cannot be done at all with most. All I do is present opportunities. What peeps do with them is really none of my concern. They will do what they will. The openness created with the gentle approach is usually an openness to feeling loved, appreciated, accepted, agreed with. It still doesn't mean an openness to seeing what one doesn't want to see. As long as you are gentle, there's nothing at all to push against and this is a relationship in which there is no threat and no motivation to look. The moment threat is felt, the foundation of the relationship is questioned. (At that point, there could be some emotional blackmail because you're not playing the game right.) I think we're getting down to the nuts and bolts of the dynamic. Some people are here with the intent to make friends, perhaps alleviate loneliness, bond and share. Some people are here with the intent of a focused discussion and inquiry, willingness to explore and look. Not that the two intentions are necessarily incompatible with each other, it's a question of priorities. Some of those in the former group are going to get rubbed the wrong way by some of those in the latter group. So the question boils down to how to inspire the willingness to look. I still think style factors into that as style can come across as the carrot or the stick. |
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