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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 20:59:48 GMT -5
How goes the witch hunt? Seems you've got Top's problem all figured out. There's no witch hunt. I don't profess to have anything 'figured out'. Just surmising and making suggestions. My question was absolutely genuine. The dynamic you two seem to share is very different from most husband/wife, lover to lover relationships is all....and I'm curious if it ever goes the other way where she actually leads you to see something you might not have seen or been open to previously. There is no right or wrong. All kinds of dynamics can and obviously do work. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:18:37 GMT -5
Yes. I am saying that it's possible that the women here that don't share your interest in 'what's true' represent that part of Marie that isn't interested, which would be a minor source of irritation for you. Forums are a good place to play out our irritations. So I'm saying that we are all in the same boat here. Its not JUST Silver projecting her hurt, you are projecting too. I don't experience a part of Marie that's not interested. She's actually quite dedicated. In any event, there's no frustration about this imaginary part. I'm pretty sure your boat has a leak in it. Why do you have a need to drag me into your leaky hurt boat? |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:21:01 GMT -5
If you don't want to look at it, then its only natural that you would label it a giraffe. Think about it. I'm just putting the possibility out there. If you have some frustrations associated with your marriage to do with a lack of shared values/focus between you and your wife, it makes sense that you would play out those frustrations on a forum. Particularly with women. You are not the only one though. I think its quite likely that my irritation when I see Enigma and others separating themselves into an unreproachable 'above' position is linked to my relationship with my Dad (who does something similar in his own way). What would looking at it to your satisfaction entail? I looked at what you were presenting, your interpretation of what is going on and I noticed that it didn't account for all the evidence on the table. I have sat with the idea you're proposing, that I'm projecting my frustration with my wife onto Silver. I'm not having any kind of aversive reaction. I'm not seeing how to apply it. It just looks like an idea in my mind. I will say that when I am frustrated, not just from my wife but in general, that can influence how I interact with everyone, meaning a little short on attention, more quips instead of weighed responses, etc. What would I need to do in order for you to feel like I've given the matter ample consideration? Obviously, you would have to agree with him.  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:22:16 GMT -5
I've just showed you how your mind works. Just to be clear, you are udderly, toadally clueless, Arisha.  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:26:15 GMT -5
I can't believe someone made you satsang leader. That's a pretty good point. Gol durn smokey backrooms of speerchuality..... That's part of Andrews plan to find something wrong with me. You know how that works; play with words a little, take things out of context, exaggerate a bit. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:29:44 GMT -5
I can't believe someone made you satsang leader. That's a pretty good point. Gol durn smokey backrooms of speerchuality..... The name of the satsang was "squirrel satsang." C'mon, fess up. How'd ya do it? The squirrels are responsible for all the logistics. ;D |
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Post by arisha on Feb 10, 2013 22:55:16 GMT -5
I've just showed you how your mind works. Just to be clear, you are udderly, toadally clueless, Arisha. Just to be clear, your projecting is not something that can be of some interest to anybody. All about you is known well enough and long ago. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 22:57:17 GMT -5
Welp, I don't see that a 'negative reaction' or a 'positive reaction' either facilitates or obstructs readiness, as readiness is more about sincerity than emotional calmness. The negative reaction may very well be an indicator of readiness as, if there is truly none, many of the comments simply won't register as making any sense. (Something that happens with Silver at times) There must be a willingness to see what one doesn't want to see, and this willingness requires a compensating motivation. Repeated struggle can act as this motivation, or a deep trust. Obviously, these correspond to the approaches we're talking about. This isn't the kind of trust that says 'I know you'll never say anything to hurt me and will always support me', which is the kind of trust folks are often looking for in friends and mates. This is the kind of trust that says 'I believe in you and I know you'll tell me what's true'. This kind of trust is rare as hen's teeth in the cyber world and I'm not interested in cultivating it. The latter is the kind of trust Marie has for me. It doesn't mean she believes everything I say, it means she will likely look wherever I point to see for herself, because she knows it's not about believing but rather seeing. She may struggle with ideas and insights, but she never struggles with me. Because there is always the willingness to look, she notices, sees, realizes and ideas and fears fall away. The more she sees this happen, the more willing she is to look. The way I interact on line is different and not as effective. I'm not committed to building and maintaining that trust, which cannot be done at all with most. All I do is present opportunities. What peeps do with them is really none of my concern. They will do what they will. The openness created with the gentle approach is usually an openness to feeling loved, appreciated, accepted, agreed with. It still doesn't mean an openness to seeing what one doesn't want to see. As long as you are gentle, there's nothing at all to push against and this is a relationship in which there is no threat and no motivation to look. The moment threat is felt, the foundation of the relationship is questioned. (At that point, there could be some emotional blackmail because you're not playing the game right.) I think we're getting down to the nuts and bolts of the dynamic. Some people are here with the intent to make friends, perhaps alleviate loneliness, bond and share. Some people are here with the intent of a focused discussion and inquiry, willingness to explore and look. Not that the two intentions are necessarily incompatible with each other, it's a question of priorities. Some of those in the former group are going to get rubbed the wrong way by some of those in the latter group. That's clearly one factor. If the motivation for being here is something other than clarity, then there's never a reason to even look, and no reason to help them look. That focused motivation is part of what I'm calling sincerity. However, there can also be, and usually is, a conscious motivation to improve in whatever way that's imagined, and an unconscious resistance to what it actually takes to do so. I don't see this as an anomaly but rather the most typical mode of operation from which peeps approach speerichuality. It happens because the seeker is what I call unconscious, and since unconsciousness isn't threatened by intelligence or knowledge, we often encounter very bright, even eloquent students who have done all the spirichool searchy things and are still quite unconscious. I'd say the willingness to look is not enough if there's also an unconscious resistance to looking, which is why becoming conscious is the pivotal factor AFAIC. Bringing consciousness to the unconscious is an extreme challenge, as the unconscious do not know they are unconscious and will not cooperate in any way. I'm tempted to say nobody has ever performed this miracle. It's life itself that works the miracles. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 23:23:06 GMT -5
How goes the witch hunt? Seems you've got Top's problem all figured out. There's no witch hunt. I don't profess to have anything 'figured out'. Just surmising and making suggestions. My question was absolutely genuine. The dynamic you two seem to share is very different from most husband/wife, lover to lover relationships is all....and I'm curious if it ever goes the other way where she actually leads you to see something you might not have seen or been open to previously. There is no right or wrong. All kinds of dynamics can and obviously do work. She's under the impression that I see more clearly than she. That's what it means to say she believes in me. However, it's an exploration we do together, in communion, and the whole idea of one seeing and teaching another can dissolve into absurdity. Marie and I hold satsang for the purpose of this communion, to BE in the company of Truth, not to teach and to learn. At the moment of seeing, I'm nowhere to be found. I disappear, and with me goes the 'student'. So I can talk about the question as though it makes sense, but really it is a nonsense. Imaginary boundaries are funny things, they go away when we stop imagining them. There's just one 'teacher' in all the universe, and it's YOU. It's most certainly not Enigma. |
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Post by arisha on Feb 10, 2013 23:23:10 GMT -5
You'd better learn from Mountain-Goat as much as possible.
Then you probably start to orientate yourself at least in a flat country 'cause mountains will be always too high and too complicated for you. You feel lost completely even about much simpler issues of behavior. How the mind works is not for you.
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Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 23:27:39 GMT -5
You'd better learn from Mountain Goat as much as possible. Then you probably start to orientate yourself at least in a flat country 'cause mountains will be always too high and too complicated for you. You feel lost completely even about much simpler issues of behavior. How the mind works is not for you. *warms his hands by the radiance of the love exuding from this post* |
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Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 23:33:22 GMT -5
Just to be clear, you are udderly, toadally clueless, Arisha. Just to be clear, your projecting is not something that can be of some interest to anybody. All about you is known well enough and long ago. I seem to be of considerable interest to you. |
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Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 23:37:09 GMT -5
Just to be clear, your projecting is not something that can be of some interest to anybody. All about you is known well enough and long ago. I seem to be of considerable interest to you. obsessed it would seem. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 11, 2013 3:13:35 GMT -5
To be clear, what I am suggesting is not that you quip, or are short on attention. Quite the opposite really. What I am suggesting is that you focus on Silver taking responsibility for projections because your wife doesn't have that big an interest in doing that. If your wife doesn't share your values/focus, then there will be tension because of the particular nature of your values/focus. No amount of you taking responsibility for the sense of that tension will dissolve it, it has to play itself out with someone else. So Silver gets pushed. I see what you're talking about. But it's not just with Silver. Do you remember Midnight? And you make it sound like if my wife shared the same values that I wouldn't be pushing on anyone else. Is it that I am projecting my frustration with my wife? Or is it that I push something I've found tremendous value in? Being self-aware and conscious of what is going on in the psyche. I see the situation with Midnight as a little different...that was a guy that was clearly saying...'Help Me Now!'. As it turned out he was fussy about the kind of help he wanted, but even so. My guess is that if your situation with your wife was different then you would be a bit different, yes. But again, I don't think that applies just to you. Again, just speculating though, take or leave it. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 11, 2013 3:19:26 GMT -5
Yes. I am saying that it's possible that the women here that don't share your interest in 'what's true' represent that part of Marie that isn't interested, which would be a minor source of irritation for you. Forums are a good place to play out our irritations. So I'm saying that we are all in the same boat here. Its not JUST Silver projecting her hurt, you are projecting too. I don't experience a part of Marie that's not interested. She's actually quite dedicated. In any event, there's no frustration about this imaginary part. I'm pretty sure your boat has a leak in it. Why do you have a need to drag me into your leaky hurt boat? Quite dedicated is not quite enough though in order to 'be conscious' in the way you advocate. I think its quite apparent that, at the very least, you have an interest in seeing Marie become someone that 'comes empty' (though on the other hand, there may also be part of you that likes the teacher role), but I think that 'frustration' is probably too strong a word. If there is an irritation about the lack of commitment, and a subtle want for control, the most appropriate thing would be to direct it at the forum. |
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