|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 16:55:39 GMT -5
That is a nice piece of speculation there. How would you propose investigating whether or not that speculation is true? It also neglects to take into account other dynamics. 1) The Silver-Reefs dynamic. 2) The possibility that Silver is projecting onto me with respect to her mother-son dynamic. Let's continue speculation and work with this "club" idea, which in my mind is really a schism in philosophical approaches to the world. Reefs, Enigma and I all have a focus on becoming aware of subconscious dynamics and that is how we "work" with other people. The output of that focus varies between us. Reefs doesn't sugar coat anything and seems to focus on the more extreme interpretations (there's something to be said for when interpretations become possibly valid). Enigma doesn't quite go for the extreme interpretations but focuses more on his experience of what was literally said. My approach I would have a hard time classifying as its coming out of me instead of me observing it coming out of someone else. So here you have 3 salsas, mild (presumably me), medium (E), and muy caliente (Reefs). The fact that Silver trips up with all three of us along that scale of gradation would suggest, to me, that its something in Silver, a reactivity to having someone else point out how they perceive her behavior. Perhaps its triggering a trauma with someone in her past who did the same thing. Mother, Father, parent, sibling, former husband, old boyfriend, etc. I'm speculating as well. My speculation accounts for more data points that I see and I think it would be more accurately predictive as a model for future events. I don't think it can be finally established as true or false. Personally I think there is some truth in it, but in the end its up to you whether or not you want to consider the possibility. I agree that Silver may well be projecting some of her pain, but that's been well documented already. I am suggesting that there is another side of the coin here. I won't comment on Reefs in this instance because he doesn't share anything about his personal life. I could speculate some more, but its a step too far given the absence of information. What I see you and E have in common is a strong focus on 'what's true' and a consistent preference to keep 'reality' at hand and 'imagination' at a distance. You call this 'being conscious'. Based on what you have both said, my guess is that you 'lead' or 'encourage' or 'guide' your partners to do the same, but my guess is that your partners just don't quite share the same level of interest, or commitment to that focus/preference. And neither does Silver have a massive interest in it, and when you see her speaking in such a way that is reflective of not being 'conscious', it grabs your attention. Personally, I don't have a big interest in it either, I can see a level of value in it, but its not a priority for me by any means. Marie very much shares my interest. It's the most important thing in her life, hence the sincerity. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 17:03:59 GMT -5
I don't think it can be finally established as true or false. Personally I think there is some truth in it, but in the end its up to you whether or not you want to consider the possibility. I agree that Silver may well be projecting some of her pain, but that's been well documented already. I am suggesting that there is another side of the coin here. I won't comment on Reefs in this instance because he doesn't share anything about his personal life. I could speculate some more, but its a step too far given the absence of information. What I see you and E have in common is a strong focus on 'what's true' and a consistent preference to keep 'reality' at hand and 'imagination' at a distance. You call this 'being conscious'. Based on what you have both said, my guess is that you 'lead' or 'encourage' or 'guide' your partners to do the same, but my guess is that your partners just don't quite share the same level of interest, or commitment to that focus/preference. And neither does Silver have a massive interest in it, and when you see her speaking in such a way that is reflective of not being 'conscious', it grabs your attention. Personally, I don't have a big interest in it either, I can see a level of value in it, but its not a priority for me by any means. Marie very much shares my interest. It's the most important thing in her life, hence the sincerity. Ah, but she obviously doesn't have the same level of focus/commitment/preference that you do, otherwise there would be nothing to teach her. You wouldn't be satsang leader. She would be looking at 'what's true' consistently without your guidance. She would already 'be conscious'. So she doesn't quite share the depth of your commitment. I can well believe that she loves you so much that she WANTS to share the depth of your commitment. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 17:05:51 GMT -5
That's funny! ;D I don't have any scientific theories of love to present to the community for independent confirmation. What I mean by 'your absence' is the absence of the belief in a separate, volitional person who's job it is to do love. I don't mean all the humans have to die. ;D I understand why it does. It's fine. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 17:08:31 GMT -5
The problem is that Joe and Mary think love must conform to a set of behavioral conditions in order to be love. This is why I say your ideas about love is not what Love really is.
We, as in people, all have ideas, i see nothing wrong with having ideas...i think ideas are fun.
If you have a problem with Joe and Mary's ideas, then you do, i don't.It's only a potential problem for Joe and Mary, not for me. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 17:10:35 GMT -5
Too ridicalus would be weally baaad. You've not only become too ridiculous in your attempts to be right, you've lost too many opportunities to understand things which you will never have again. You don't even bother to put some creative energy into your insults. |
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Feb 10, 2013 17:12:20 GMT -5
That's funny! ;D I don't have any scientific theories of love to present to the community for independent confirmation. What I mean by 'your absence' is the absence of the belief in a separate, volitional person who's job it is to do love. I don't mean all the humans have to die. ;D
The very act of communication is to direct another to one's ideas.
The directing can be worded, "Hey, listen to this."1) I know. My idea of love is my idea of love, just like your idea about love is not love, but just your idea.
2) Well that's your idea and you have every right to express it.
I choose to only speak for myself, and i think i have a good handle on how to love.
3) Have you asked from everyone you have shared your ideas with why they don't want to hear it, or is your understanding based on your idea of why they don't want to hear it?
I don't bother with attaching 'truth' labels on things i cannot accurately verify.
I focus on seeing if my understanding produces a positve outcome for all involved.This is really, really nice. This is what E&Co would break their heads with but would never learn. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 10, 2013 17:17:01 GMT -5
How I relate to Marie, at least in terms of talking about spearichuul ideas, is similar to how I talk to Quinn or Spongy, which is to say how I relate to those with sincerity and maturity. How I relate to Silver and Arisha is different because they are different, and make relating in any sane way impossible. Spongey certainly, but Quinn also to some extent, are happy to see you as having 'got it' and that they haven't quite 'got it'. So I can well believe that you relate to them the same as you do to Marie i.e. with you in the teacher role. Whereas Arisha and Silver don't look to you in that same way, they challenge you. It sounds like you see women with maturity and sincerity as those that are happy to put you in the teacher role. Silver might represent that aspect of Marie that isn't quite as committed or as focused as you on 'what's true'. I don't know or care if Q and S think I 'got it', and if they're as sincere as I think they are, they don't spend much time wondering. Arisha and Silver see me as the enemy, because they lack a genuine interest in the truth and fight to preserve their illusions. They're not really fighting me. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 10, 2013 17:26:45 GMT -5
Spongey certainly, but Quinn also to some extent, are happy to see you as having 'got it' and that they haven't quite 'got it'. So I can well believe that you relate to them the same as you do to Marie i.e. with you in the teacher role. Whereas Arisha and Silver don't look to you in that same way, they challenge you. It sounds like you see women with maturity and sincerity as those that are happy to put you in the teacher role. Silver might represent that aspect of Marie that isn't quite as committed or as focused as you on 'what's true'. I don't know or care if Q and S think I 'got it', and if they're as sincere as I think they are, they don't spend much time wondering. Arisha and Silver see me as the enemy, because they lack a genuine interest in the truth and fight to preserve their illusions. They're not really fighting me. No, that's not true. You've said this before - it's a cliche for good reason: We are all our own worst enemies - including yourself, E. In this way, we're all pretty pathetic - we all have our blind spots, but you don't ever admit to having a blind spot. It's unavoidable. You're the one around here who tends to separate people and categorize them. And don't forget to pick up some sterile gloves at the store. It's an absurdity for you to say we lack a genuine interest in the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 17:27:13 GMT -5
Spongey certainly, but Quinn also to some extent, are happy to see you as having 'got it' and that they haven't quite 'got it'. So I can well believe that you relate to them the same as you do to Marie i.e. with you in the teacher role. Whereas Arisha and Silver don't look to you in that same way, they challenge you. It sounds like you see women with maturity and sincerity as those that are happy to put you in the teacher role. Silver might represent that aspect of Marie that isn't quite as committed or as focused as you on 'what's true'. I don't know or care if Q and S think I 'got it', and if they're as sincere as I think they are, they don't spend much time wondering. Arisha and Silver see me as the enemy, because they lack a genuine interest in the truth and fight to preserve their illusions. They're not really fighting me. Arisha, Silver (and also Figgy) don't assume that you have 'got it' so they don't put you in a teacher position. It seems you see women that put you in teacher position as sincere (like Marie does). Those that challenge you are deluded. If there is a part of Marie that hasn't quite bought lock, stock and barrel into what you are teaching, the women on the forum that challenge you are going to represent that aspect of Marie that is still holding out. |
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Feb 10, 2013 17:34:56 GMT -5
You've not only become too ridiculous in your attempts to be right, you've lost too many opportunities to understand things which you will never have again. You don't even bother to put some creative energy into your insults. If my remark about your inability to see with clarity is an insult to you then I can understand why you repeatedly have the same problems. Your learning potential is blocked with the aggressive purpose of your mind which is fighting to prove its specialness which it actually lacks. Trying to compensate that lack of specialness your mind invents and imagines all kinds of threats and menaces which it is supposed to eliminate in order to survive. This is one (but not the only one) reason of your being delusioned so much. Another reason why you are delusioned so much is your lack of understanding the things, the life in general. |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 17:46:56 GMT -5
I don't know or care if Q and S think I 'got it', and if they're as sincere as I think they are, they don't spend much time wondering. Arisha and Silver see me as the enemy, because they lack a genuine interest in the truth and fight to preserve their illusions. They're not really fighting me. Arisha, Silver (and also Figgy) don't assume that you have 'got it' so they don't put you in a teacher position. It seems you see women that put you in teacher position as sincere (like Marie does). Those that challenge you are deluded. If there is a part of Marie that hasn't quite bought lock, stock and barrel into what you are teaching, the women on the forum that challenge you are going to represent that aspect of Marie that is still holding out. You're selectively focusing on women, Andrew. What you see plays itself out across both genders. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 17:57:37 GMT -5
Arisha, Silver (and also Figgy) don't assume that you have 'got it' so they don't put you in a teacher position. It seems you see women that put you in teacher position as sincere (like Marie does). Those that challenge you are deluded. If there is a part of Marie that hasn't quite bought lock, stock and barrel into what you are teaching, the women on the forum that challenge you are going to represent that aspect of Marie that is still holding out. You're selectively focusing on women, Andrew. What you see plays itself out across both genders. I would say there is some universality, but I also think there is some gender difference. Even with you, you seem to have a particular concern for how Silver sees things. Maybe that's because of the relationship you have, but then that's the point isn't it. Yes, Silver may project her hurts onto you, but you may well be doing the same thing. |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Feb 10, 2013 18:06:42 GMT -5
You're selectively focusing on women, Andrew. What you see plays itself out across both genders. I would say there is some universality, but I also think there is some gender difference. Even with you, you seem to have a particular concern for how Silver sees things. Maybe that's because of the relationship you have, but then that's the point isn't it. Yes, Silver may project her hurts onto you, but you may well be doing the same thing. Silver is the only person I've PMed with in depth on this form and most of that interaction was initiated by her, not me. So yes, she sticks out in my mind more. Not because she's a woman but because she had a closer interaction with me. You're doing your damndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 18:08:52 GMT -5
You're selectively focusing on women, Andrew. What you see plays itself out across both genders. I would say there is some universality, but I also think there is some gender difference. Even with you, you seem to have a particular concern for how Silver sees things. Maybe that's because of the relationship you have, but then that's the point isn't it. Yes, Silver may project her hurts onto you, but you may well be doing the same thing. Hehe...yes, he's labelled me as being both 'insincere' and 'lacking in maturity.'... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 10, 2013 18:15:49 GMT -5
I would say there is some universality, but I also think there is some gender difference. Even with you, you seem to have a particular concern for how Silver sees things. Maybe that's because of the relationship you have, but then that's the point isn't it. Yes, Silver may project her hurts onto you, but you may well be doing the same thing. Silver is the only person I've PMed with in depth on this form and most of that interaction was initiated by her, not me. So yes, she sticks out in my mind more. Not because she's a woman but because she had a closer interaction with me. You're doing your darndest to construct a giraffe. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein. If you don't want to look at it, then its only natural that you would label it a giraffe. Think about it. I'm just putting the possibility out there. If you have some frustrations associated with your marriage to do with a lack of shared values/focus between you and your wife, it makes sense that you would play out those frustrations on a forum. Particularly with women. You are not the only one though. I think its quite likely that my irritation when I see Enigma and others separating themselves into an unreproachable 'above' position is linked to my relationship with my Dad (who does something similar in his own way). |
|
