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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2013 20:18:23 GMT -5
Well, I guess I can say it's okay for you to be pushy then...I just don't want you to think that I will find your beliefs/practices tenable for me, personally - I can only consider them. There's the blackmail again. 'Behave yourself or I won't trust you.' |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 20:19:14 GMT -5
I trried for quite a while to understand Arisha's dislike of most teachers, and some folks here. I think I'm pretty much done trying. Not only is it a very ugly process, it's a one-way process in which there seems to be little or no attempt to understand me. I don't assume that her judgments of Tolle are based on actual information any more than her judgments of me are. Top has a good focus on community and communicating in ways that minimize the potential for reactivity. I've enjoyed his attempts with you and others and I've also enjoyed watching him deal with the boundaries of that approach. In some ways he has more patience than I do and I mean to commend him. However, Figs and others have talked about special ways of getting through without causing upset, and it seems to me this is what Top has been trying to do. One of the problems is that the message is easily compromised, which Reefs has talked about a few times. Another problem is that a trusting relationship must be maintained with one who bases that trust on never being told anything that may be interpreted as hurtful. On a few occasions it looks like you issuing a kind of warning to Top that your trust is about to be withdrawn because he has violated that contract the moment he says something clearly enough for you to hear it. This has also been my experience, and my experience of others who tried various versions of this approach. What you see in others who you judge to be most horrendous in regard to 'style' is the abandonment of style in the interest of truth. This abandonment doesn't mean purposeful unkindness, but it's also not pandering. Many of the messages you hear have no emotional content in them at all until you imagine they do. It cannot be the job of the messenger to insure your ongoing contentment with the message. That's something you must learn to do for yourself. I'm going to corroborate this from E, silver. Pretty much nails what's been going on, as I see it, also (though I have even less patience than E to even write such a post  ). If Top thinks I'm impatient, you didn't even want to get help out of the hole yesterday>>> Beingist: "Just throw me some food and reading mat'l and I'm good to go - er, I mean sit here until doomsday."  Yup. Top IS a good guy. He lets me have my say without acting like a db (e.g., making derisive, sarcastic comments against those who don't see things the way he sees them). I honestly don't think I could see Top in a negative light - I only worry about him because I know that he's got human type problems in spite of his philosophies. Therefore, his judgment calls aren't always the best. He respects everybody, and that's way cool. |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 20:22:28 GMT -5
Well, I guess I can say it's okay for you to be pushy then...I just don't want you to think that I will find your beliefs/practices tenable for me, personally - I can only consider them. There's the blackmail again. 'Behave yourself or I won't trust you.' Here we go. What's so bad about saying that a person will hear them out what they have to say about something, but issuing the simple statement that they can't expect any and all members of their audience will buy into it - every individual has to make up their own minds - it wouldn't be right at all for anyone to say oh yeah, I dig it and really not dig it secretly or they just want to placate them? I think I'm being totally honest and normal. I see nothing wrong with normal. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2013 20:26:31 GMT -5
I am very open to hearing why she has these views on Tolle. However she did not start out with explaining her views and at no point bothered to justify them. Do I need to ask Arisha why she thinks Tolle and his methods are ugly? If you're going to come out and say something on the order of "Mother Teresa is a selfish deluded sleeper.", shouldn't you give some reasoning along with that statement in order to explain what you mean so that people don't get the impression that you're a bigot? My point is this: There are much kinder and more loving ways of critiquing Tolle and his methodology. Arisha claims to be about intentionally making effort towards being loving and kind. Arisha fails to practice what she preaches. All I did was point that out. Arisha, why do you see Tolle and his method as ugly and neurotic? Arisha sees something amiss in a LOT of things. And she expresses her seeing with the opposite of kindness and lovingness. I would be happy to hear why Arisha sees ugliness in God's creations. You're right, I didn't ask her to explain herself. Instead I pointed out that the way she expresses herself is inconsistent with the message she is trying to convey. Do I think that I have something to learn from Arisha when she talks about the ugliness she sees in an ugly way? no. So I don't bother asking for her to explain herself. I noticed that you didn't ask for her to explain herself either. Why is that? Yes, I have been pushing on you. I take it that on this forum we're allowed to challenge how others see things. Where else are you going to go to be able to give and receive such valuable interactions? Most other forums require that everyone be cordial and polite and keep things at the level of pseudo-community. We also tend to get angry and frustrated and resent the swimmers that come by and poke pin holes in our inflated flotation devices while coasting in the deep end of the pool. I push on you because I care about you Silver. I know you don't interpret it that way. But that is how it is intended. This is another point I noticed that I didn't address: The more two peeps are alike (Arisha and Enigma), the more likely they are to clash. So, that explains that pretty well. ;D Glad you got that all worked out. ;D I would say Reefs, Silence and myself are quite a bit alike, and we virtually never clash. You and I are nothing alike, and we always clash. Arisha and I may be similar in our willingness to say what's on our minds, but the similarity seems to pretty much end there. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 30, 2013 20:40:35 GMT -5
This is another point I noticed that I didn't address: The more two peeps are alike (Arisha and Enigma), the more likely they are to clash. So, that explains that pretty well. ;D Glad you got that all worked out. ;D I would say Reefs, Silence and myself are quite a bit alike, and we virtually never clash. You and I are nothing alike, and we always clash. Arisha and I may be similar in our willingness to say what's on our minds, but the similarity seems to pretty much end there. I've also noticed that Andrew and Figgy clash all the time. Same for Heterodox and Silver.  |
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Post by Beingist on Jan 30, 2013 20:44:19 GMT -5
There's the blackmail again. 'Behave yourself or I won't trust you.' Here we go. What's so bad about saying that a person will hear them out what they have to say about something, but issuing the simple statement that they can't expect any and all members of their audience will buy into it - every individual has to make up their own minds - it wouldn't be right at all for anyone to say oh yeah, I dig it and really not dig it secretly or they just want to placate them? I think I'm being totally honest and normal. I see nothing wrong with normal. Why be 'normal?' Insanity is 'normal'.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2013 20:48:37 GMT -5
Okay, bit of info here: www.consciousnessjunkie.com/sedona-method/There are lots of youtube videos detailing the method, but haven't watched them so I can't recommend one in particular. Looks like Hale, the guy that 'runs' it these days, has a movie coming out about it too. I stumbled across some words by Lester Levinson that immediately caught my attention. (For those who don't know, the one who taught Hale and others, who then developed the Sedona Method) I'm also a member of Hale's forum, though I don't post there anymore. It's as clear to me that Lester 'gets it' as it is that Hale does not. I see no real relationship between the self help money maker Sedona Method, and what Lester discovered and sorta kinda tried to teach. (It's just an aside. I know you're talking about self help gurus.) |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 20:55:56 GMT -5
Here we go. What's so bad about saying that a person will hear them out what they have to say about something, but issuing the simple statement that they can't expect any and all members of their audience will buy into it - every individual has to make up their own minds - it wouldn't be right at all for anyone to say oh yeah, I dig it and really not dig it secretly or they just want to placate them? I think I'm being totally honest and normal. I see nothing wrong with normal. Why be 'normal?' Insanity is 'normal'. I don't care. Either way, a person has to make up their own mind about stuff. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2013 21:01:30 GMT -5
Glad you got that all worked out. ;D I would say Reefs, Silence and myself are quite a bit alike, and we virtually never clash. You and I are nothing alike, and we always clash. Arisha and I may be similar in our willingness to say what's on our minds, but the similarity seems to pretty much end there. I've also noticed that Andrew and Figgy clash all the time. Same for Heterodox and Silver. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that theory needs to get reworked a bit before it's published. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 30, 2013 21:01:55 GMT -5
Okay, bit of info here: www.consciousnessjunkie.com/sedona-method/There are lots of youtube videos detailing the method, but haven't watched them so I can't recommend one in particular. Looks like Hale, the guy that 'runs' it these days, has a movie coming out about it too. I stumbled across some words by Lester Levinson that immediately caught my attention. (For those who don't know, the one who taught Hale and others, who then developed the Sedona Method) I'm also a member of Hale's forum, though I don't post there anymore. It's as clear to me that Lester 'gets it' as it is that Hale does not. I see no real relationship between the self help money maker Sedona Method, and what Lester discovered and sorta kinda tried to teach. (It's just an aside. I know you're talking about self help gurus.) When I hear Sedona in a spiritual context I think of James Arthur Ray. Was Ray doing Sedona Method? (edit: funny how we always come back to self-help with Andy) |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 30, 2013 21:04:49 GMT -5
I've also noticed that Andrew and Figgy clash all the time. Same for Heterodox and Silver. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that theory needs to get reworked a bit before it's published. Might need a little more statistisizing before it goes into print. |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 21:05:05 GMT -5
Glad you got that all worked out. ;D I would say Reefs, Silence and myself are quite a bit alike, and we virtually never clash. You and I are nothing alike, and we always clash. Arisha and I may be similar in our willingness to say what's on our minds, but the similarity seems to pretty much end there. I've also noticed that Andrew and Figgy clash all the time. Same for Heterodox and Silver. Very funny. For some reason, 'the club' crossed my mind - the club of those who agree - to agree! ;D Tough luck for those with don't agree. I like my club - the live and let live club. 
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Post by Reefs on Jan 30, 2013 21:12:57 GMT -5
I've also noticed that Andrew and Figgy clash all the time. Same for Heterodox and Silver. Very funny. For some reason, 'the club' crossed my mind - the club of those who agree - to agree! ;D Tough luck for those with don't agree. I like my club - the live and let live club. I doubt that's the right name for your club. It should be renamed into fight to the death club or always the last word club.  |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 21:16:15 GMT -5
Very funny. For some reason, 'the club' crossed my mind - the club of those who agree - to agree! ;D Tough luck for those with don't agree. I like my club - the live and let live club. I doubt that's the right name for your club. It should be renamed into fight to the death club or always the last word club. Sometimes I think both 'clubs' are like that. Just different methods.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2013 23:23:47 GMT -5
I stumbled across some words by Lester Levinson that immediately caught my attention. (For those who don't know, the one who taught Hale and others, who then developed the Sedona Method) I'm also a member of Hale's forum, though I don't post there anymore. It's as clear to me that Lester 'gets it' as it is that Hale does not. I see no real relationship between the self help money maker Sedona Method, and what Lester discovered and sorta kinda tried to teach. (It's just an aside. I know you're talking about self help gurus.) When I hear Sedona in a spiritual context I think of James Arthur Ray. Was Ray doing Sedona Method? (edit: funny how we always come back to self-help with Andy) I dunno nuthin bout Ray. It's interesting that I can't find Lester's first person account of his story. All I find is regurgitation from those with something to sell. I've got Marie tracking down the Lost Lester Manuscript. ;D |
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