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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 8:06:19 GMT -5
You've done it on multiple threads already. I also sense your escalating tone. Let's face it Arisha, there's a part of you that is not loving or compassionate, but negative, attacking, judgmental, and venomous. That part of you is triggered by Tolle, Enigma, myself, and a few others. Why is that? Why is it okay for you and a select few to express your own pet beliefs and biases with immunity while having both arms and legs wrapped around them holding on for dear life and yet you feel perfectly justified to completely smite Arisha's (and mine, and a few others' opinions) with a chilling air of snobbery? Why can you not let EVERYBODY have and express their own thoughts and opinions without knocking them? Not even questioning them with complete openness? It seems you think that this place is only for peeps with a specific set of narrow beliefs and leanings. No I don't think this place is for a specific set of beliefs, however I see this place as a place where people can confront eachother openly. I guess you could take that as a leaning. I've never taken this place to be about "non-duality" as I have no idea what non-duality is. What am I holding onto, Silver? What am I not completely open about? What am I being snobbish about? |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 8:07:37 GMT -5
So Tolle being an ugly man with an ugly methodology is something I should learn from her? Of course not. Awareness is the classroom. Just making sure I understand you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 8:12:12 GMT -5
Of course not. Awareness is the classroom. Just making sure I understand you. You who? ;D But I do sense arisha is pointing at awareness as the only 'real' teacher. |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 8:12:35 GMT -5
Why is it okay for you and a select few to express your own pet beliefs and biases with immunity while having both arms and legs wrapped around them holding on for dear life and yet you feel perfectly justified to completely smite Arisha's (and mine, and a few others' opinions) with a chilling air of snobbery? Why can you not let EVERYBODY have and express their own thoughts and opinions without knocking them? Not even questioning them with complete openness? It seems you think that this place is only for peeps with a specific set of narrow beliefs and leanings. No I don't think this place is for a specific set of beliefs, however I see this place as a place where people can confront eachother openly. I guess you could take that as a leaning. I've never taken this place to be about "non-duality" as I have no idea what non-duality is. What am I holding onto, Silver? What am I not completely open about? What am I being snobbish about? You're holding onto your own pet beliefs. You're not open to learning how and why Arisha has these strong feelings about Tolle, etc. I think she's wrong on Tolle, myself. I don't think there's anything so terrible about him and I've only read his two main books so I don't know just everything about him or his teachings, yet she evidently sees something amiss about them. What Arisha sees is what Arisha sees. If you are willing to say flat out she's wrong for seeing what she sees, that's not being completely open to possibly learning why that is - and that seems rather snobbish to me. Plus, you've been leaning on me lately, and putting down how I myself see certain things and discouraging me from seeing things as I see them. You're certainly more of a gentleman about it than certain others, but I see you changing for the worse - or seeing a side of you I never quite was able to see before. |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 9:01:04 GMT -5
Just making sure I understand you. You who? ;D But I do sense arisha is pointing at awareness as the only 'real' teacher. I don't think anyone here would disagree with the premise that awareness is the only real 'teacher'. I'd argue, though, that there is no teaching, only learning. A 'teacher' creates optimal learning environments. That said, I would say that Arisha is trying to pass on an understanding. A chef passes on an understanding through the meal they prepare. But a chef will check their tomatoes to make sure they don't serve any rotten tomatoes. Arisha's comment on Tolle was rotten. It ruins the flavor of the meal that Arisha is trying to serve. That happens a lot with Arisha for me. I can't eat her meals because she puts rotten vegetables in them from time to time. Either 1) I just don't have a compatible pallette, and so things taste rotten 2) She is just unaware of the rotten vegetables in her stock room 3) She is doing it intentionally out of spite and mallace. There are enough people saying they get served rotten food from time to time from her that I don't think its just (1) at play. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 9:11:35 GMT -5
You who? ;D But I do sense arisha is pointing at awareness as the only 'real' teacher. I don't think anyone here would disagree with the premise that awareness is the only real 'teacher'. I'd argue, though, that there is no teaching, only learning. A 'teacher' creates optimal learning environments. That said, I would say that Arisha is trying to pass on an understanding. A chef passes on an understanding through the meal they prepare. But a chef will check their tomatoes to make sure they don't serve any rotten tomatoes. Arisha's comment on Tolle was rotten. It ruins the flavor of the meal that Arisha is trying to serve. That happens a lot with Arisha for me. I can't eat her meals because she puts rotten vegetables in them from time to time. Either 1) I just don't have a compatible pallette, and so things taste rotten 2) She is just unaware of the rotten vegetables in her stock room 3) She is doing it intentionally out of spite and mallace. There are enough people saying they get served rotten food from time to time from her that I don't think its just (1) at play. I'd argue there is no teacher, or learning. There is just Self. But I digress... ;D It could be a #4 thing, too. We don't know. I'm sure she'll jump in and post about it when she gets here. I'll tell ya what.... Your post made me hungry for a tomato omelette. I'm gonna get on that right now!;D |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 9:22:01 GMT -5
No I don't think this place is for a specific set of beliefs, however I see this place as a place where people can confront eachother openly. I guess you could take that as a leaning. I've never taken this place to be about "non-duality" as I have no idea what non-duality is. What am I holding onto, Silver? What am I not completely open about? What am I being snobbish about? You're holding onto your own pet beliefs. You're not open to learning how and why Arisha has these strong feelings about Tolle, etc. I am very open to hearing why she has these views on Tolle. However she did not start out with explaining her views and at no point bothered to justify them. Do I need to ask Arisha why she thinks Tolle and his methods are ugly? If you're going to come out and say something on the order of "Mother Teresa is a selfish deluded whore.", shouldn't you give some reasoning along with that statement in order to explain what you mean so that people don't get the impression that you're a bigot? My point is this: There are much kinder and more loving ways of critiquing Tolle and his methodology. Arisha claims to be about intentionally making effort towards being loving and kind. Arisha fails to practice what she preaches. All I did was point that out. Arisha, why do you see Tolle and his method as ugly and neurotic? I think she's wrong on Tolle, myself. I don't think there's anything so terrible about him and I've only read his two main books so I don't know just everything about him or his teachings, yet she evidently sees something amiss about them. Arisha sees something amiss in a LOT of things. And she expresses her seeing with the opposite of kindness and lovingness. What Arisha sees is what Arisha sees. If you are willing to say flat out she's wrong for seeing what she sees, that's not being completely open to possibly learning why that is - and that seems rather snobbish to me. I would be happy to hear why Arisha sees ugliness in God's creations. You're right, I didn't ask her to explain herself. Instead I pointed out that the way she expresses herself is inconsistent with the message she is trying to convey. Do I think that I have something to learn from Arisha when she talks about the ugliness she sees in an ugly way? no. So I don't bother asking for her to explain herself. I noticed that you didn't ask for her to explain herself either. Why is that? Plus, you've been leaning on me lately, and putting down how I myself see certain things and discouraging me from seeing things as I see them. You're certainly more of a gentleman about it than certain others, but I see you changing for the worse - or seeing a side of you I never quite was able to see before. Yes, I have been pushing on you. I take it that on this forum we're allowed to challenge how others see things. Where else are you going to go to be able to give and receive such valuable interactions? Most other forums require that everyone be cordial and polite and keep things at the level of pseudo-community. We also tend to get angry and frustrated and resent the swimmers that come by and poke pin holes in our inflated flotation devices while coasting in the deep end of the pool. I push on you because I care about you Silver. I know you don't interpret it that way. But that is how it is intended. |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 9:26:07 GMT -5
I don't think anyone here would disagree with the premise that awareness is the only real 'teacher'. I'd argue, though, that there is no teaching, only learning. A 'teacher' creates optimal learning environments. That said, I would say that Arisha is trying to pass on an understanding. A chef passes on an understanding through the meal they prepare. But a chef will check their tomatoes to make sure they don't serve any rotten tomatoes. Arisha's comment on Tolle was rotten. It ruins the flavor of the meal that Arisha is trying to serve. That happens a lot with Arisha for me. I can't eat her meals because she puts rotten vegetables in them from time to time. Either 1) I just don't have a compatible pallette, and so things taste rotten 2) She is just unaware of the rotten vegetables in her stock room 3) She is doing it intentionally out of spite and mallace. There are enough people saying they get served rotten food from time to time from her that I don't think its just (1) at play. I'd argue there is no teacher, or learning. There is just Self. But I digress... ;D That does seem to be a common tactic with you. "Here's this rug, lets' stand on it" *Top steps onto rug* *Heterodox pulls the rug out from under Top and lays down a different rug* "Here let's stand on this rug instead" *Top steps onto rug* ... It could be a #4 thing, too. We don't know. I'm sure she'll jump in and post about it when she gets here. I'll tell ya what.... Your post made me hungry for a tomato omelette. I'm gonna get on that right now!;D I would be surprised if she did. She's taken to not engaging anything I have to say. I'm open to being surprised. Be sure to check your tomatoes! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 9:40:40 GMT -5
That does seem to be a common tactic with you. "Here's this rug, lets' stand on it" *Top steps onto rug* *Heterodox pulls the rug out from under Top and lays down a different rug* "Here let's stand on this rug instead" *Top steps onto rug* ... Only coz I'm aware you want a logical rug to stand on. I was thinking while I was whisking eggs. Arisha may simply be employing an intangible means of subtraction to point at Self. It could be a #4 thing, too. We don't know. I'm sure she'll jump in and post about it when she gets here. I'll tell ya what.... Your post made me hungry for a tomato omelette. I'm gonna get on that right now!;D I would be surprised if she did. She's taken to not engaging anything I have to say. I'm open to being surprised. Be sure to check your tomatoes! The tomato is mmm mmm good. edited for quotes |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 11:44:49 GMT -5
That does seem to be a common tactic with you. "Here's this rug, lets' stand on it" *Top steps onto rug* *Heterodox pulls the rug out from under Top and lays down a different rug* "Here let's stand on this rug instead" *Top steps onto rug* ... Only coz I'm aware you want a logical rug to stand on. You mean you assume I want a logical rug to stand on. I am a logician, but I know the limits of logic. If we were interacting in person, it would be a very different interaction. I'd be relating more through energy fields and body language than through mental content. I was thinking while I was whisking eggs. Arisha may simply be employing an intangible means of subtraction to point at Self. you're pretty confident that she's pointing at the Self. But she's talked about an infinite number of levels of higher/spiritual awareness and the need to push into them. I don't see the need and I'm not interested in conquering infinity. I've found that all that is required is recognition of Self, then it is Self that takes care of itSelf and there is no need to conquer infinite levels of self-improvement. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2013 12:00:55 GMT -5
Only coz I'm aware you want a logical rug to stand on. You mean you assume I want a logical rug to stand on. I am a logician, but I know the limits of logic. If we were interacting in person, it would be a very different interaction. I'd be relating more through energy fields and body language than through mental content. I was thinking while I was whisking eggs. Arisha may simply be employing an intangible means of subtraction to point at Self. you're pretty confident that she's pointing at the Self. But she's talked about an infinite number of levels of higher/spiritual awareness and the need to push into them. I don't see the need and I'm not interested in conquering infinity. I've found that all that is required is recognition of Self, then it is Self that takes care of itSelf and there is no need to conquer infinite levels of self-improvement. Did you say last year that you were seeing a counsellor? Am I remembering correctly? Not saying there is anything wrong with that, and I think counselling can be very helpful for some people, but how does that fit with ''all is required is recognition of Self'', and a lack of interest in engaging with 'self-improvement'? Or has your perspective changed since you said you were seeing a counsellor? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 13:24:50 GMT -5
Only coz I'm aware you want a logical rug to stand on. [You mean you assume I want a logical rug to stand on. I am a logician, but I know the limits of logic. If we were interacting in person, it would be a very different interaction. I'd be relating more through energy fields and body language than through mental content. I'm not assuming anything. I always read your posts, and you have a tendency to provide links for logical supportive text with regard to the discussion at times. I do believe this is the first time I've read that you see limits in logic. I see a lot of limits in logic coz I've been hamstrung by it at times. I agree, we would all relate differently in person. I was thinking while I was whisking eggs. Arisha may simply be employing an intangible means of subtraction to point at Self. you're pretty confident that she's pointing at the Self. But she's talked about an infinite number of levels of higher/spiritual awareness and the need to push into them. I don't see the need and I'm not interested in conquering infinity. I've found that all that is required is recognition of Self, then it is Self that takes care of itSelf and there is no need to conquer infinite levels of self-improvement. I wouldn't use the word confident. She shook me to my core with a response a few months ago when I posted a youtube link for the Gayatri Mantra on a thread she started. I understood, beyond words, in that moment she is a seer. It was a direct experience. I was so shook by it my next response was a babble. ;D As for the infinite levels and stuff mentioned, I sense she is describing the vastness of the territory we're all engaged with. She likes to lean into It. I like to twist and shout sometimes, too. ;D |
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Post by silver on Jan 30, 2013 13:31:12 GMT -5
You're holding onto your own pet beliefs. You're not open to learning how and why Arisha has these strong feelings about Tolle, etc. I am very open to hearing why she has these views on Tolle. However she did not start out with explaining her views and at no point bothered to justify them. Do I need to ask Arisha why she thinks Tolle and his methods are ugly? If you're going to come out and say something on the order of "Mother Teresa is a selfish deluded sleeper.", shouldn't you give some reasoning along with that statement in order to explain what you mean so that people don't get the impression that you're a bigot? E does it ALL the time and whether peeps are just bored with his mini and maxi-rants and b*tches (see: he makes his complaints very personal and I find it pure poison) about peeps and just ignores him, I have no idea.... Yes, it is a good thing that we can challenge one another, although I will say that certain members are just plain cantankerous, nasty and distracts from those who come truly open to one another and it gets in the way most of the time. (heehee, it's a good thing that I know how to tread water, float, swim.) Well, I guess I can say it's okay for you to be pushy then...I just don't want you to think that I will find your beliefs/practices tenable for me, personally - I can only consider them. |
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Post by topology on Jan 30, 2013 13:36:41 GMT -5
You mean you assume I want a logical rug to stand on. I am a logician, but I know the limits of logic. If we were interacting in person, it would be a very different interaction. I'd be relating more through energy fields and body language than through mental content. you're pretty confident that she's pointing at the Self. But she's talked about an infinite number of levels of higher/spiritual awareness and the need to push into them. I don't see the need and I'm not interested in conquering infinity. I've found that all that is required is recognition of Self, then it is Self that takes care of itSelf and there is no need to conquer infinite levels of self-improvement. Did you say last year that you were seeing a counsellor? Am I remembering correctly? Not saying there is anything wrong with that, and I think counselling can be very helpful for some people, but how does that fit with ''all is required is recognition of Self'', and a lack of interest in engaging with 'self-improvement'? Or has your perspective changed since you said you were seeing a counsellor? Are you saying that counsellors are outside the Self? I was seeing one. I sometimes need help getting perspective on my emotional hangups. When the system gets a wrench in its gears and I'm too frustrated/stressed to see clearly, asking someone else to look at the situation with me is practical. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2013 13:44:25 GMT -5
Did you say last year that you were seeing a counsellor? Am I remembering correctly? Not saying there is anything wrong with that, and I think counselling can be very helpful for some people, but how does that fit with ''all is required is recognition of Self'', and a lack of interest in engaging with 'self-improvement'? Or has your perspective changed since you said you were seeing a counsellor? Are you saying that counsellors are outside the Self? I was seeing one. I sometimes need help getting perspective on my emotional hangups. When the system gets a wrench in its gears and I'm too frustrated/stressed to see clearly, asking someone else to look at the situation with me is practical. I take it that you don't consider that to fall under the 'self-improvement' banner then? I'm sort of curious, but can't quite find the right question to ask....hmmm....When you are frustrated/stressed (not seeing clearly), how does the counsellor help you to get to the 'seeing clearly'? For example, does s/he ask you to question your beliefs, does s/he connect you to a particular truth of something, does s/he sit quietly with you and meditate? |
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