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Post by silence on Aug 8, 2012 1:22:07 GMT -5
The enquiry & ata. I don't want to feel so rubbish anymore, but the thoughts keep coming. Ah forget it, just ignore me...I'm sure I'll figure it out someday! Hey there!  It's the trying to figure out how to live life that can get very frustrating. Endless spiritual material is very seductive for getting trapped in such mental ditches. |
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Post by esponja on Aug 8, 2012 1:54:36 GMT -5
The enquiry & ata. I don't want to feel so rubbish anymore, but the thoughts keep coming. Ah forget it, just ignore me...I'm sure I'll figure it out someday! Hey there! It's the trying to figure out how to live life that can get very frustrating. Endless spiritual material is very seductive for getting trapped in such mental ditches. Hello Silence, I had to double take, thought it was the old Silence coming back to the forum, it's not so welcome! Yes. My motives are to not feel so down and depressed but along with that I know there's more to this than meets the eye and I want to get to the bottom of it. (Of what?!) |
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Post by andrew on Aug 8, 2012 2:12:36 GMT -5
So much of conflict has to do with blood sugar and sleep deficits. Part of being a successful parent is just getting good food accessible and a consistent bed routine. The basic premise of the LOA teachings is that everyone is the creator of their own reality, that on one else but you can create in your reality. That's why parenting is nonsense. Parenting means creating in your child's reality. But you have no control over their focus or over the thoughts they think which means you have no control over your children's experience. As long as you are the object of their attention, you might have the chance of directing their focus into a certain direction, but to what conclusions they will come is beyond your power of influence. Give it up. Ditch that parenting concept. And there's also another premise in the LOA teachings, the concept of supreme inner guidance (intuition) that you don't seem to acknowledge at all. Dysfunctional environments are the best, really. Your body is a reflection of the balance of your thoughts. If you want to know what thoughts you are thinking, just look at what's manifesting around you. Guaranteed?  Right. That's resignation, still resistance. If the resolution of the question were trivial, then Ramana would have been a fool to recommend it, but he was not a fool. Well, the foolish part about it would be to expect what worked for you will work in exactly the same way for others.  Im well aware of the basic premise of the LOA teachings, however its not a premise that I consider to be useful in a blanket way in every situation. I do understand what you mean when you say that parenting is a nonsense, but practically speaking, sometimes this idea is also somewhat nonsensical. Sometimes my intuition has been to take responsibility for directing the kid's focus (less so these days though). Sometimes I am guided to put in boundaries and say 'no'. As much as I resonate with A-H, I don't necessarily always abide by the principles laid out by them. I respond intuitively to situations as they arise, and that might mean embracing the idea of being 'a parent'. I'm wondering, do you speak from experience here Reefs? Are there children under the same roof as you? |
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Post by andrew on Aug 8, 2012 2:16:19 GMT -5
The enquiry & ata. I don't want to feel so rubbish anymore, but the thoughts keep coming. Ah forget it, just ignore me...I'm sure I'll figure it out someday! Hey there! It's the trying to figure out how to live life that can get very frustrating. Endless spiritual material is very seductive for getting trapped in such mental ditches. Same silence? Bonjour! |
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Post by emptymirror on Aug 8, 2012 4:04:42 GMT -5
The enquiry & ata. I don't want to feel so rubbish anymore, but the thoughts keep coming. If you are emotionally not stable, I wouldn't recommend that ATA stuff. Akktchuly I wouldn't recommend ATA or any inquiry stuff at all. Do some of the processes Abe suggest in "Ask & It's Given" instead. That will give you immediate results and take you out of the negative loop. Are you suggesting some sort of LOA therapy? How positive will it be if the LOA doesn't work as it's supposed to? |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 8, 2012 4:15:01 GMT -5
Reefs wrote: "Well, the foolish part about it would be to expect what worked for you will work in exactly the same way for others."
I sincerely doubt that Ramana had any expectations at all, much less that one. He said exactly what he had to say without any idea about, or attachment to, the outcome. For those who understand why, the issue is clear.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 7:24:52 GMT -5
So much of conflict has to do with blood sugar and sleep deficits. Part of being a successful parent is just getting good food accessible and a consistent bed routine. You're kiddin', right? Nope. PlayPlayPlayPlay It's wondrous, but requires energy. No such thing as perpetual motion machines. CryCryCry can happen when the energy stores are depleted. It's kind of a boom bust cycle. Parenting is not a science but we watch the 'clock.' Sometimes a snack can extend the PlayPlayPlay a lot longer. Guiding children to bed at an earlier time can help them interact confidently the next day, etc. Well the natural flow of life force finds expression in different ways. Kids need to know what expressions are going to help and what are going to hinder. Advice from the old-timers: throwing a fit about not getting your exact <insert object of desire> is not a winning strategy. You may have more success with politeness, for example. The tirade due to the 'no' spark has more to do with aforementioned chemical imbalances (in my experience). Also, clear ground rules and fairness help lay the stage for a 'no.' Maslow's Basic Needs? What are the basic needs? Food Shelter Clothing Sleep...education, healthcare....friendship family.... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 7:46:19 GMT -5
No I pretty much understand it as that too. I'm counterposing the Loving-What-Is with Arguing-With-What-Is and I'm saying that sometimes it's hard to discern the difference between the two of them. The thing is, all there is is what is. So the best approach is to just 'enjoy the ride,' which is just another way of saying 'accept' or love what is. 'What is' is a set that includes the argument. Maybe that's why I don't have much use for the idea 'what is'. If one's ultimate goal is to accept that life can be unacceptable, the bar is way too low. No it's more like accepting that sometimes life doesn't appear peaceful. In fact, ordinary living sometimes involves taking a role in a drama. Accepting in this way helps relieve one of beating themselves up for the way they acted in that role. Trying to improve oneself, as a parent or spouse or friend or whatever, is what (some) characters do in that drama as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 18:26:42 GMT -5
No, No, No, and No...hehe Well the one that asks "Who am I", is not who/what you are, and that's what Ramana was pointing at. Who/What you are is the the one that is 'aware' of the questioner, aware of the consciousness. There is no questioner ZD, never has been, never will be. And that's why you'll never find the questioner, because he doesn't exist, except as the imaginary 'I AM'. If you want to spend the rest of your life searching for that questioner, than I don't have a problem with that. That imaginary questioner is the same imaginary helper of folks that I was pointing out to Sharon. Actually ZD, I think Ramana was a pretty smart guy. Au contraire, I would say that there is a questioner, but it is not a person, and that contemplating the question can lead to a major realization. It may be imagined that the questioner is a person, but that which is asking the question is neither a person nor imaginary. The realization of who/what the questioner IS is earth-shatteringly powerful. This is why Ramana recommended that koan to people. If the resolution of the question were trivial, then Ramana would have been a fool to recommend it, but he was not a fool. Awareness doesn't ask questions, it 'IS'. Contemplating 'Who Am I' does lead to a realization, and it is that 'there is no questioner'. You become aware of what you are not... 'aware' of what you are not... Ramana asked that Koan so peeps would find out what they are not and not what they are. Because what you are cannot be known. When you are aware of what you are not, you realize that you just 'are', here as the Now, is the Now, pure awareness... The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 18:31:12 GMT -5
No, No, No, and No...hehe Well the one that asks "Who am I", is not who/what you are, and that's what Ramana was pointing at. Who/What you are is the the one that is 'aware' of the questioner, aware of the consciousness. There is no questioner ZD, never has been, never will be. And that's why you'll never find the questioner, because he doesn't exist, except as the imaginary 'I AM'. If you want to spend the rest of your life searching for that questioner, than I don't have a problem with that. That imaginary questioner is the same imaginary helper of folks that I was pointing out to Sharon. Actually ZD, I think Ramana was a pretty smart guy. The one who is aware of the questioner, is the questioner, aware of itself. The one helping is helping itself. Awareness and questioner/helper have the same source, and so when we come full circle they are one. But they are actually not the same... Awareness is the mother of the 10 thousand things (consciousness). |
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Post by enigma on Aug 8, 2012 19:16:11 GMT -5
The one who is aware of the questioner, is the questioner, aware of itself. The one helping is helping itself. Awareness and questioner/helper have the same source, and so when we come full circle they are one. But they are actually not the same... Awareness is the mother of the 10 thousand things (consciousness). If they are actually one, they are actually the same. I agree that the concepts refer to different thingys, but it's also not incorrect to say you are the questioner. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 19:56:11 GMT -5
Marie and I had a great squirrel satsang today. We were talking about the core issue of suffering as being the idea that something should not be as it is. In her case, there are some things about herself that she cannot accept as they are and she wasn't willing to let go of that attitude. I said "What is it that you want to change in me?" She said "Nothing". I said "Why is that? God knows I'm not perfect, so what is it that takes priority over you wanting to change me?" She paused for a moment and said "Love". Are you sure she wasn't thinking "It would be futile" or "I pick my battles" or "there's a law of diminishing returns"?  |
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Post by enigma on Aug 8, 2012 20:07:37 GMT -5
Marie and I had a great squirrel satsang today. We were talking about the core issue of suffering as being the idea that something should not be as it is. In her case, there are some things about herself that she cannot accept as they are and she wasn't willing to let go of that attitude. I said "What is it that you want to change in me?" She said "Nothing". I said "Why is that? God knows I'm not perfect, so what is it that takes priority over you wanting to change me?" She paused for a moment and said "Love". Are you sure she wasn't thinking "It would be futile" or "I pick my battles" or "there's a law of diminishing returns"? Yes, I'm sure. I know how she looks at me because I look at her the same way. That's how I already knew what her answer would be. I wrote this to her once, and maybe it gives an idea of what takes priority for us. To My Love Love paints it's own portrait In the image of the beloved Seen so clearly now In the reflecting pool In the deep regions of my own heart On your lips I paint the perfect words To bring courage to uncertainty On your cheeks a childlike wonder Innocent and fresh to awaken my own And in your eyes I paint the deepest ocean A portal straight to your own heart Unfailing love The stars are in their places Because we are together God has opened a door Because we have knocked The moon lights our way Because we walk toward it This is the power of love I love you as gentle things must be loved If they are to remain so I love you as wild things are loved Untamed and free I love you as graceful things are loved With an eye for beauty If there is even a space between us There is also a bridge that forms How can I know anymore Where your love ends And mine begins? You are my portrait And I am yours Thank you for that |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 8, 2012 20:53:33 GMT -5
I'm wondering, do you speak from experience here Reefs? Are there children under the same roof as you? Yup. Are you suggesting some sort of LOA therapy? How positive will it be if the LOA doesn't work as it's supposed to? Again: LOA works always perfectly. But often folks have strange ideas about how LOA should work. I'm getting the idea that you could be one of those strange folks... What do you know about LOA in general? What do you know about the Abraham-Hicks version of LOA teachings? What are the basic premises? What is the main purpose of the teaching? I sincerely doubt that Ramana had any expectations at all, much less that one. He said exactly what he had to say without any idea about, or attachment to, the outcome. For those who understand why, the issue is clear. I wasn't talking about Ramana. I was talking about giving advice in general. Nope. PlayPlayPlayPlay It's wondrous, but requires energy. No such thing as perpetual motion machines. CryCryCry can happen when the energy stores are depleted. It's kind of a boom bust cycle. Parenting is not a science but we watch the 'clock.' Sometimes a snack can extend the PlayPlayPlay a lot longer. Guiding children to bed at an earlier time can help them interact confidently the next day, etc. Well the natural flow of life force finds expression in different ways. Kids need to know what expressions are going to help and what are going to hinder. Advice from the old-timers: throwing a fit about not getting your exact <insert object of desire> is not a winning strategy. You may have more success with politeness, for example. The tirade due to the 'no' spark has more to do with aforementioned chemical imbalances (in my experience). Also, clear ground rules and fairness help lay the stage for a 'no.' The rules are: 'There are no rules.' (applies for any area in life) Okay, I see you are getting pretty defensive here. So I will stop annoying you. There's no point in exploring this any further at this point in time. Maybe you can answer the questions I've just asked the higher mammal about LOA. |
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Post by enigma on Aug 8, 2012 22:14:03 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about Ramana. I was talking about giving advice in general. I usually advise against it. |
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