|
|
Post by lemongrass on May 2, 2012 22:49:40 GMT -5
LOL I like how whenever zendancer thinks he is challenged he feels compelled to rewrite everything in a "perfect" way so he isn't "wrong".
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 3, 2012 2:50:28 GMT -5
Sorry Peter, I don't understand your question. To restate with the full context: >>>I often tell peeps that they can't go wrong because there's no right way or wrong way to do anything. >>This is true only if ''right'' and ''wrong'' express a judgement. >How could "right" and "wrong" ever be used in a way which does not express a judgement? |
|
|
|
Post by lemongrass on May 3, 2012 2:55:21 GMT -5
Sorry Peter, I don't understand your question. To restate with the full context: >>>I often tell peeps that they can't go wrong because there's no right way or wrong way to do anything. >>This is true only if ''right'' and ''wrong'' express a judgement. >How could "right" and "wrong" ever be used in a way which does not express a judgement? I think a person would say something like "that was right" while not judging. |
|
|
|
Post by merrick on May 3, 2012 3:50:00 GMT -5
Sorry Peter, I don't understand your question. To restate with the full context: >>>I often tell peeps that they can't go wrong because there's no right way or wrong way to do anything. >>This is true only if ''right'' and ''wrong'' express a judgement. >How could "right" and "wrong" ever be used in a way which does not express a judgement? Thanks Peter, there is a way of looking at the world and oneself with judgement and there is a way of looking with compassion. I know that ''right'' and ''wrong'' imply judgement but I think it is just for a lack of some better words. If mum sees her little child tearing of a fly's legs, she may either think how cruel her child is and start worrying about what is he going to do later on when already now he has no respect for life. Or she may look at him with compassion, thinking that he doesn't know better yet and take it as a challenge to teach him respect towards all living beings. Although there may not be any right or wrong in the child's behaviour from the point of view that everything that happens provides an opportunity to learn to all concerned, it does cause pain and distress to another being and from that point of view we may say that it is not right. But this ''judgement'' comes from the heart which I see as the only reliable compass in life as opposed to the mind which is capable of justifying anything. Merrick |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 3, 2012 4:38:07 GMT -5
Thanks for elucidating Merrick. Perhaps what we're seeing there is the difference between judging the behaviour and judging the person?
Personally I don't see the heart as a reliable compass as anyone who's engaged in an affair would hopefully agree - sometimes the mind needs to remind the heart of it's long term best interests.
|
|
|
|
Post by merrick on May 3, 2012 14:00:46 GMT -5
Thanks for elucidating Merrick. Perhaps what we're seeing there is the difference between judging the behaviour and judging the person? I put the word judgement in inverted commas, trying to say that there really is not any judgement in true compassion. This manifest world of illusion or dream as it is often called by people who live in the consciousness of Oneness is not some chaotic, haphazard happening. This dreaming, if I may call it that way, is very well organized and subject to many laws and rules that apply universally. The laws of physics, chemistry or mathematics are empirical laws anyone can test and prove their validitity for themselves. And then there are other laws which can't be examined in the laboratory and yet they govern the lives of all of us. This Creation is subject to Law and Order which is inconceivable by the intellect. And at the core of that Order which governs our lives is the Law of Love. It is a concept, I know. But one the Bible talks about, one the Buddha supported by his teachings and other great teachers too. And I can see its infallible functioning in my everyday work. When we are aware, there is no judgement. But there is discrimination, the ability to distinguish what resonates with the Law of Love and what does not. So, to me, the words ''right'' and ''wrong'' may be used in that sense, i.e. without implying any judgement. Personally I don't see the heart as a reliable compass as anyone who's engaged in an affair would hopefully agree - sometimes the mind needs to remind the heart of it's long term best interests. If we are aware, the heart is the most reliable compass. Yes, affairs can be very dangerous, but then it is not that much about love anymore but rather about hormones  . Merrick |
|
|
|
Post by silence on May 3, 2012 17:21:39 GMT -5
Personally I don't see the heart as a reliable compass as anyone who's engaged in an affair would hopefully agree - sometimes the mind needs to remind the heart of it's long term best interests. My heart pumps blood. I can't seem to locate this mind thingy either. I don't really know who's steering the ship to be perfectly honest. |
|
|
|
Post by midnight on May 3, 2012 18:50:54 GMT -5
And you don't find that to be a dry, desolate, empty and depressing discovery?
|
|
|
|
Post by silence on May 3, 2012 18:54:42 GMT -5
And you don't find that to be a dry, desolate, empty and depressing discovery? Are you speaking to me? |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 3, 2012 19:00:09 GMT -5
Thanks for elucidating Merrick. Perhaps what we're seeing there is the difference between judging the behaviour and judging the person? I put the word judgement in inverted commas, trying to say that there really is not any judgement in true compassion. This manifest world of illusion or dream as it is often called by people who live in the consciousness of Oneness is not some chaotic, haphazard happening. This dreaming, if I may call it that way, is very well organized and subject to many laws and rules that apply universally. The laws of physics, chemistry or mathematics are empirical laws anyone can test and prove their validitity for themselves. And then there are other laws which can't be examined in the laboratory and yet they govern the lives of all of us. This Creation is subject to Law and Order which is inconceivable by the intellect. And at the core of that Order which governs our lives is the Law of Love. The law and order that you can talk about and prove is not inconceivable at all. What would it mean to test and replicate certain laws in your nightly dream? What would it mean to not understand how something happens in that dream, or to be filled with wonder about it, or be confused by it, or even to feel joy or sorrow about it? |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 3, 2012 19:05:09 GMT -5
Personally I don't see the heart as a reliable compass as anyone who's engaged in an affair would hopefully agree - sometimes the mind needs to remind the heart of it's long term best interests. My heart pumps blood. I can't seem to locate this mind thingy either. I don't really know who's steering the ship to be perfectly honest. Nobody's steering it so keep checking for icebergs. If you see one, you can't do anything about it, but you can rearrange the deck chairs and stuff. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by midnight on May 3, 2012 19:57:28 GMT -5
And you don't find that to be a dry, desolate, empty and depressing discovery? Are you speaking to me? I am |
|
|
|
Post by silence on May 3, 2012 21:58:26 GMT -5
A lot of what we talk about here can initially be extremely depressing and down right devastating. Often there really isn't any way around this. You can run for decades parallel to what thought perceives as terrible news but it will eventually dawn on you that there's no other option than to go through it. By this I mean, be totally willing to be obliterated in every sense of the word. |
|
|
|
Post by midnight on May 4, 2012 15:45:04 GMT -5
Well, how do I do that? I feel like I've lost my mind, so is there any chance I'm going to get it back if I keep meditating? Doubtful. The other day I almost went into that void again and I backed out again. Noone ever talks about this stuff ffs. Mooji never mentions feeling like your going to be swallowed up so strongly.... all this spiritual stuff is so misleading.
|
|
|
|
Post by lemongrass on May 4, 2012 16:17:09 GMT -5
Well, how do I do that? I feel like I've lost my mind, so is there any chance I'm going to get it back if I keep meditating? Doubtful. The other day I almost went into that void again and I backed out again. Noone ever talks about this stuff ffs. Mooji never mentions feeling like your going to be swallowed up so strongly.... all this spiritual stuff is so misleading. I think you're being dramatic about this. Getting swallowed in the void happens to everyone. For most people it's probably gentle and gradual and so its not very perceptible. Also they aren't looking to be swallowed in the void so when it does happen they don't make stories out of it. |
|
.
